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Mike's extension & renovation (gables & sprockets)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 09:49

Yes indeed. I know exactly how I'll do it. It will weigh about 200kg, and although I could do it by myself, I'll have my friend over to give me a hand. 200kg 2 metres up in the air is not something to be taken lightly.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby 9fingers » 25 Apr 2021, 09:53

Mike G wrote:That's going to be a flitch beam, made up of a pair of 9x2 timbers sandwiching a 15mmx200mm piece of steel plate, 6 metres long. Lifting that into place is going to be fun.


Any virtue is assembling the beam in situ Mike?
My back of envelope suggest the steel will be about 140kg so propping that on one of the verticals and then up onto the other will be two 70kg lifts and each timber being a trivial two x 15kg lifts but a lot easier than assembled at 2 x 100kg lifts.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Apr 2021, 10:02

Coming along nicely Mike.

It is interesting to compare the cost of building such a thing yourself with what the numerous companies selling these sort of garages charge. A friend of mine has just got quotes for a two bay open garage with cat slide roof at the back. He has seen mine (self built with a shoestring budget) and got quotes for all oak, and oak to plate level with softwood roof. Lives just outside Guildford so an expensive area. He changed his mind sharpish when the quotes came in and opted for similar design to yours.

The cheapest quote he got for the slab was just over £8,000 plus VAT. To put up a two bay, oak front only (so 3 posts and a beam across), softwood otherwise garage was £14,000 plus VAT cheapest (some were £22,000). This was on two courses of bricks. Roofing in clay tiles (machine made) was a further £12,000 plus VAT but he could make a saving and opt for felt tiles.

No electrics or water laid on. No drive works for the area in front of the garages. All extra.

I find these prices amazing. No idea what he finally spent though I will ask him, but based on the quotes he sent me he will have spent easily £40k.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Apr 2021, 10:08

Just saw the beam posts. It's always fun :o getting big beams up. We also have the T shirt on this. I have a big steel tripod off eBay ex farmer with extension legs and a winch. Getting a big beam to plate level is the limit of it's capacity height wise, but it is safe and enables me to do it pretty easily with my wife or son or even on my own if I am feeling keen.

I imagine you use the incremental support method Mike? I've done similar but I always find the final manoeuvring to be tense.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 10:27

9fingers wrote:
Mike G wrote:That's going to be a flitch beam, made up of a pair of 9x2 timbers sandwiching a 15mmx200mm piece of steel plate, 6 metres long. Lifting that into place is going to be fun.


Any virtue is assembling the beam in situ Mike?
My back of envelope suggest the steel will be about 140kg so propping that on one of the verticals and then up onto the other will be two 70kg lifts and each timber being a trivial two x 15kg lifts but a lot easier than assembled at 2 x 100kg lifts.

Bob


I'm going to do a half-way house, Bob. I am going to assemble it at the level of the back wall, on a temporary platform/ frame. This is about shoulder height, so is the highest that we'll be able to lift the steel plate easily unaided (we have to hand-ball it off the lorry). I'll place it onto one of the timbers, then build the flitch up, before doing the lift of the completed thing a couple of feet into it's final resting place.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby 9fingers » 25 Apr 2021, 10:30

Mike G wrote:
9fingers wrote:
Mike G wrote:That's going to be a flitch beam, made up of a pair of 9x2 timbers sandwiching a 15mmx200mm piece of steel plate, 6 metres long. Lifting that into place is going to be fun.


Any virtue is assembling the beam in situ Mike?
My back of envelope suggest the steel will be about 140kg so propping that on one of the verticals and then up onto the other will be two 70kg lifts and each timber being a trivial two x 15kg lifts but a lot easier than assembled at 2 x 100kg lifts.

Bob


I'm going to do a half-way house, Bob. I am going to assemble it at the level of the back wall, on a temporary platform/ frame. This is about shoulder height, so is the highest that we'll be able to lift the steel plate easily unaided (we have to hand-ball it off the lorry). I'll place it onto one of the timbers, then build the flitch up, before doing the lift of the completed thing a couple of feet into it's final resting place.


Sounds like a plan Mike
Good Luck
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 10:35

AJB Temple wrote:Coming along nicely Mike.

It is interesting to compare the cost of building such a thing yourself with what the numerous companies selling these sort of garages charge..........

I find these prices amazing. No idea what he finally spent though I will ask him, but based on the quotes he sent me he will have spent easily £40k.


Yep, that's nuts, if you have the wherewithall to do it yourself. I reckon mine will cost me around £6000 all in, and that's using hand made clay plain tiles for the roof. If I charged labour onto that, I reckon there might be 4 weeks work in this, so 20 x £150 = £3000. Cost price, therefore, under £10,000 if I were building this for someone else and charging my labour.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 10:39

AJB Temple wrote:.....I imagine you use the incremental support method Mike? I've done similar but I always find the final manoeuvring to be tense.


Yep, precisely. Essentially you see-saw it up, using 2 fulcrums, either side of the centre point. You are only actually lifting the differential between the longer and the shorter side of the see-saw, until the very last move.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Apr 2021, 11:11

I agree on pricing. Similar for me. I used oak because it was basically free for me, as I did an oak swap deal for some of my much larger pieces in exchange for oak cut to the sizes I wanted, partly from my stock. I know from that that I could have bought enough oak at trade prices from the guy who helps me out, for £5,500 to do a pair of buildings, all in oak. I also had to do an immense amount of digging out for foundations.

We used hand made clays as well - bought very cheaply in Kent as a job lot of numerous pallets. These were enough to do both oak buildings, and my utility room roof and I have two pallets left. But the deal was I had to take all of it.

We paid roofers to do the tile laying and had to hire scaffolding for them. I expect you will do your own, and even though I don't like heights I would too, but my roof shapes were too complicated for me to do a good job - way too much tile cutting for all those hips, and I was not confident of doing a good job on the dozens of bonnets as I make a mess with mortar! I need to learn to handle mortar properly.

It is actually amazing how much money you save if you can do it yourself. Neil (the guy in Guildford) was shocked when I told him what I spend versus what he spends. He is a hard worker but has no experience of DIY really so I understand it can be daunting. I really like the thread as it inspires people to have a go, and shows them how.

I've started my next one now. As of Friday. 8-)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby the bear » 25 Apr 2021, 12:43

I live in the area Adrians friend lives. I’ve just reroofed a double garage. Quotes circa £10k with me stripping it and disposing old covering and supplying the scaffold. Luckily a scaffolder owed me a favour. I’m on the home straight and recon it will end up costing me £4K all in. Plus I’ve insulated it and added oak sprockets which would have been more £s on top of the 10. And I’ve made some back selling to old large concrete tiles.
Plenty to be saved with a bit of knowledge and time

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage framing done)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 13:41

AJB Temple wrote:.......We used hand made clays as well - bought very cheaply in Kent as a job lot of numerous pallets. These were enough to do both oak buildings, and my utility room roof and I have two pallets left. But the deal was I had to take all of it.....


You made me go and look......but there's a roofer's yard in Sudbury which holds tens of thousands of tiles in stock, and sells for a third of the price I'd pay for new ones. I'm going to have to investigate further. The thing is, I have Planning Permission for a very specific tile (well, 2 tiles, in a 2:1 blend), so I may be asking a little too much of luck.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (bin store base)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 18:50

I spent today on the bin store. The little lean-to structure itself is very simple, but it's the levels that are complex. I spent an hour or two measuring and drawing, then I started digging. The digging took hours:

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I then knocked in some level pegs:

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Before mixing up some concrete and pouring it in the trench:

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This is one of those jobs which I think will look quite simple and obvious when it is done, but it has had me pondering for a while.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (bin store base)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Apr 2021, 19:52

Then mixed up some concrete.... :D

That's quite a bit of concrete by the look of it.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (bin store base)

Postby Mike G » 25 Apr 2021, 21:05

Probably 10 or 12 barrowfuls. Maybe 15. So not an awful lot.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (bin store base)

Postby firedfromthecircus » 26 Apr 2021, 14:02

AJB Temple wrote:Then mixed up some concrete.... :D

That's quite a bit of concrete by the look of it.


Mike should change his name to Mile!

Makes
It
Look
Easy!

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (bin store base)

Postby DaveL » 26 Apr 2021, 14:35

I cycled past Mike's on the way home, tried not to slow work on the bin store too much!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (bin store base)

Postby AJB Temple » 26 Apr 2021, 15:55

Just been doing concrete calculations for my slab.

On line says that 20 builders barrows is 1 cubic metre of concrete each weighing 100kg. Another site says 25 barrows. I've mixed a lot of concrete at home and I just keep going until the hole is full. Takes me a while to mix 15 barrows.

Now that, unlike Mike, I've had the twiglets chopped off, I am much weaker but I expect this lot took him about an hour (more like three for me).

If I have to do more than about a cubic metre in a day I will need extra tea breaks.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage flitch & sheathing

Postby Mike G » 02 May 2021, 20:21

I had a delivery of steel, including the all-important flitch plate. It took 4 of us to carry it off the lorry and into position on the temporary framing I had built for the purpose:

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I then bolted it all together (the pieces of wood which sandwich the steel, plus the steel), using 16mm studding (threaded rod):

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This was all done very carefully in the right position such that turning it upright would leave the completed beam in the right position to lift. I clamped on a lever and popped it up. At 200+kg, even that is non-trivial:

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I think I'll do a separate thread on raising a heavy beam, so for a moment we'll look at the post foot detail:

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That was bedded on a strong cementitious floor tile adhesive (for stone floors), and as it was a bit elderly, it had pretty much gone off by the time I had trued everything plumb.

Here's the flitch beam in place:

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I've also done a little sheathing, and lots of bracing in anticipation of the oncoming storm:

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I strapped the ends of the beam in place:

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Previously, I had done a little blockwork on the foundations for the bin store. I rang around a few local builders and one had some hardcore they wanted to be rid of, so for beer-money I have filled the void to paving level:

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So this is how things stad now:

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage flitch & sheathing

Postby Mike G » 04 May 2021, 13:00

Ooooh, look what just turned up. :eusa-dance: :eusa-dance:

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There's more to come later. They couldn't fit it on the trailer.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage flitch & sheathing

Postby the bear » 04 May 2021, 14:51

Hopefully your temporary bracing held up in the last 24 hours of wind, its been horrendous here though I am quite exposed where I am

Oak front done by the end of tomorrow? :)

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage flitch & sheathing

Postby Mike G » 04 May 2021, 16:01

Oak not even started tomorrow. I've got a few days of drawing to do, and whilst the weather isn't special this is a good chance to focus on that. And yes, everything is sound out there. No movement at all, which is a huge relief as there is nothing I hate more than high winds when I have a part-built building.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage flitch & sheathing

Postby AJB Temple » 04 May 2021, 19:34

It's always an energising moment when the key timber arrives. The oak looks nice. :D (Should have used that throughout :o )

I wish my bricklaying was as good as yours. I'm going to do my dwarf(wish) wall in block and render it, but only because I want to use my stock of blocks up (and I have flood risk in mind).
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 06 May 2021, 18:55

That pile of oak just called to me all morning, and I gave in in the end. I decided to start with the detail on the top of the middle post from this image:

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and to that end, after cleaning a piece of 200 x 200 up with a planer and belt sander, I made a cardboard pattern from my drawings:

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Then hacked away at the waste with a circular saw:

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.........before getting the proper tools out:

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That last image shows black marks left by the interaction of tannins in the wood and the cast iron sole of a plane. Whereas my golden rule with furniture making is to finish with a blade if you possibly can, with green oak you can see why that isn't always a great idea.

This was a much quicker and easier exercise, being of 75 x 200 stock:

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A spokeshave was disturbed from its slumber for cleaning up the concave faces.

That second piece needs letting into the underside of the first one:

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The 3" shaped piece is going to be slotted straight through the top of the post, and that forces the use of two mortise & tenons rather than one:

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And finally, the main beam is going to sit on the top of this detail, obviously, so to locate everything, I made a tongue out of the top of the ......what shall we call it?.........capital. This will obviously sit in a corresponding groove/ slot mortise on the underside of the main beam, and prevent any twisting of the post:

Image
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 06 May 2021, 19:25

Here's an old cartlodge I really like in a local village:

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One thing that has struck me about old cartlodges and farmbuildings like this is that you can hardly see anything of the main beam over the posts, whereas with modern cartlodges, it's the main feature. One of the reasons I opted for the capitals rather than the more common knees (braces), is that I am going to make the beam all but invisible, so the detail on the top of the posts will be the main thing you see. The drawing below shows what I mean, and gives a better idea of the construction of the capitals:

Garage capitals.jpg
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby AJB Temple » 06 May 2021, 19:50

and you criticised my totem pole..... :D

Nice design. Dare to be different.
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