It is currently 22 Apr 2021, 03:50

BRUB!

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 17 Aug 2014, 17:04

This is my name for "Bob's Really Useful Bus" that is "bus" in the electrical sense of wiring fed around a building.

This came up in this topic http://thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... =262#p2040 where Mark suggested I write it up.
I installed this in my house as we were doing a majors series of extensions 30 years ago so I've tried to bring it up to date and use a few more off the shelf items rather than the modules I made from discrete components.

The objective is to provide an alerting system available in as many rooms as required with low level discrete sounders for events without the need for a loud sounder that is audible all over the house. Over the years the functions have been expanded for all sorts of applications never originally envisaged.

The basic bus carries the telephone signal, 12v dc power and a 5th line which enables (sounds) low level sounders/buzzers mounted discreetly on the skirting or other similar locations. I had 6 wire phone cable in stock so there is a 6th wire as a spare which has been incredibly useful in retrospect. These days Ethernet cable is cheap and has 8 cores so that might be a better choice and provide 3 spares.

This is my BRUB wire assignment.

Image

The telephone wiring pin numbers refer to the standard telecoms socket
The Sounder enable line deliberately has a line over the top following the logic convention signifying that a low voltage on that line will activate the sounders.

The power supply has been chosen as 12volts as fairly universal, safe and easily provided by package plug in units or Wall Warts.

Here are some basic minimal units on the bus.

Image

The power supply has a 12v car lamp in series. This is a safety item as with all the wiring and connectors around the house a short is always possible. If this happens the systems will stop working and the bulb with light up, the rest of the time the current will be quite low and so the lamp possibly wont even glow.
I chose this as a readily available item that most people will have around or can get easily.
Wall Wart for Amazon or Ebay etc

I use a lot of these for example http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008 ... 8I5IJ46NPH

The are only 1.5amp but quite suitable for most installations.

The sounders can be found from all the usual suspects ebay, Rapid, Amazon. Best to buy just one to start with just in case you don't like the noise it makes - some buzz, some beep and some are quite high pitched.
They are all about a pound each. key search terms are Miniature, sounders, 12vdc, piezo etc you don't want the old fashioned electromechanical buzzer. These take too much current, don't make much noise, sound horrid and can create interference with other systems. Thankfully there are possibly not many around these days.

The telephone sockets are standard POTS* phone sockets available freely.

* Plain old telephone service

That's it for now. Next time there will be the tiniest little bit of electronic involved. So I'll be describing that and how it works in our system. It is very easy and no need to be afraid of gaining a little knowledge :lol:

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 17 Aug 2014, 17:42

Part 2.

Here we introduce the diode. A two terminal device that simply allows current to flow in one direction only and that is in the direction of the arrow and not back the other way.


Image

If we connect a diode into a circuit with a light bulb and a DC supply, this is what happens.

Image

If the diode is turned the other way round. the light does not come on.


Image

Here is a typical one suitable for this job. It is about 6mm long and 3mm diameter and available from ebay 50 for £2 typically.

Image


The silver band around the end indicates the terminal with the plus sign or cathode as it is known

Next time; How we are going to use these diodes.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby Mike G » 17 Aug 2014, 17:49

9fingers wrote:........The objective is to provide an alerting system available in as many rooms as required with low level discrete sounders for events............


What sort of events, Bob? I can't imagine circumstances in which I would want buzzers going off in my house, other than the obvious doorbell, fire/ smoke/CO2 alarm and phone.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6427
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Somewhat less of a hovel
Name:

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 17 Aug 2014, 18:47

Mike G wrote:
9fingers wrote:........The objective is to provide an alerting system available in as many rooms as required with low level discrete sounders for events............


What sort of events, Bob? I can't imagine circumstances in which I would want buzzers going off in my house, other than the obvious doorbell, fire/ smoke/CO2 alarm and phone.



Patience Mike! The system scope will be revealed but your comment might be say more about your sense of imagination.... :lol: :lol:
Hopefully once people see the range of possibilities their imaginative juices might flow to more applications
If I dived in straight away I'd have possibly lost the interest of those technophobic readers.

I doubt if Bell ever expected his simple twisted pair telephone system optimised for speech would end up carrying 10s of Megabit ADSL signals.

Bob

:oops: Apologies if the above comes over a rather blunt Mike - it was not my intention :oops:
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby Coley » 17 Aug 2014, 20:03

Im intrigued !
User avatar
Coley
Sapling
 
Posts: 319
Joined: 26 Jul 2014, 20:03
Name:

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 17 Aug 2014, 20:11

Coley wrote:Im intrigued !



Excellent! keep the faith!

I'm drawing the next few illustrations right now

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 17 Aug 2014, 20:56

Bob Part 3. What the diode can do for us.



If we look at this circuit
Image

We have four diodes and if any one cathode (that's the + bit if you recall) is connected to 0v the light will come on.
Furthermore any of the other cathodes are connected to the +12volt then there is no current flowing in those diodes. So the act of connecting B to 0v has no effect on the other nodes A, C and D.

So any node A,B,C and D can switch on the light AND have no effect on things connected to the other nodes.

In logic terms this circuit is called a "wired OR gate" It performs a logic OR between the inputs and is simply "wired" to the output. It is passive (consumes no power) and is trivial to implement.

The wired OR allows multiple circuits to active the output (turn on the light) and yet each circuit remains independent and isolated by the diodes.

If it helps, you could think of A,B,Cand D as passengers on a bus (omnibus this time!) each can press the button near them to request the driver to let them off at the next stop.


If we apply this to the BRUB and replace the lamp with a buzzer we get this. Note the power supply is not shown but assumed to be installed somewhere on the bus.

Image

Connecting any one diode to 0v will make the buzzer sound. If we add lots of buzzers, they will all sound.

So stretching this out around a house, one buzzer in each room and diodes connecting each sensor to the single wire on the bus we can enable all the buzzers from anywhere on the bus.

Lots more to come.....

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby Phil » 18 Aug 2014, 05:16

Coley wrote:Im intrigued !



Same here! :text-goodpost:

Cheers
Phil
We don't stop woodworking because we grow old, we grow old because we stop woodworking!
User avatar
Phil
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 05:11
Location: Southern Africa 0054
Name: Phil

Re: BRUB!

Postby Andyp » 18 Aug 2014, 20:15

I am still searching for a Way Over My Head emoticon.

Fascinating though
cheers

Andy
“Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits...” A.A. Milne

Doing my best to achieve Wabi Sabi
User avatar
Andyp
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 18 Aug 2014, 20:26

Andyp wrote:I am still searching for a Way Over My Head emoticon.

Fascinating though


Try not to put up a mental barrier just because you might not understand.......

What don't you follow Andy. I'll try and explain.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby Andyp » 18 Aug 2014, 20:40

Bob,
You've got me there.
I guess I do not understand why? Or what is it all for?
For me it is like watching that Brian Cox fella. Whatever he says is always very interesting and has me riveted to the TV but at the end of the programme I think to myself that I did not actually understand anything. I kind of jest of course but don't let that put you off continuing the thread.

The alerts system we have in our house is along the lines of the louder they scream the bigger the spider is. :D
cheers

Andy
“Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits...” A.A. Milne

Doing my best to achieve Wabi Sabi
User avatar
Andyp
Sequoia
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 07:05
Location: 14860 Normandy, France
Name: Andy

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 18 Aug 2014, 20:51

OK Andy, Fair enough. So you do understand what I have described so far after all?

Too knackered tonight to write up the next stage - hopefully tomorrow.

One of the big advantages we find is that a discreet low level sound tells us what is going on around us with out the need for a doorbell loud enough to hear all over the house that makes you jump out of your skin if you happen to be near it. Same goes for the phone. it need not interrupt a conversation and can be ignored if we choose to.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby Woodbloke » 20 Aug 2014, 09:12

Mike G wrote:
9fingers wrote:........The objective is to provide an alerting system available in as many rooms as required with low level discrete sounders for events............


What sort of events, Bob? I can't imagine circumstances in which I would want buzzers going off in my house, other than the obvious doorbell, fire/ smoke/CO2 alarm and phone.


This is far more civilised than buzzers going orf, doncha know:

Image

…peel me a grape please Mike :lol: - Rob
I no longer work for Axminster Tools & Machinery.
User avatar
Woodbloke
Old Oak
 
Posts: 3090
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 10:06
Location: Salisbury, UK
Name: Rob Stoakley

Re: BRUB!

Postby RogerM » 20 Aug 2014, 10:13

Interesting stuff Bob. Not really sure where this is leading, but intrigued to find out! Image
User avatar
RogerM
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 588
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:47
Location: South Devon
Name: Roger

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 20 Aug 2014, 20:44

OK I've found some more time to do so more BRUB devices.

For me, this was where it all started. When my son was young we needed a warning when he was starting to wander away from the house. I want to put a lead on him but my wife disagreed!

We put up a PIR detector with a long narrow beam ( most are short range and wide angle) and pointed this along the drive and pointing into the ground so road traffic did not trigger it.

There are now mains powered types - you don't want one of these. The 12volt ones are ideal for use with BRUB

Connection is simple. Power and a diode.

Image


This next one is used to link a ringing phone to BRUB. Perhaps this is less useful these days but remember this was developed over 30 years ago when most people had a single phone in the hall and to hear it all over the house it needed to be really loud. Linking it into the BRUB means the phone ringer can be really low or even turned off.

Image

It is important that things connected to the phone line are approved to BABT standard. The easiest way these days of getting the ring detect function is to pull apart an old dial up modem or a cheapy fixed line telephone. In order to get approval, these devices all use a separate circuit for the phone interface SLIC (subscriber line interface circuit) so just use that. Some are line powered other can use the 12v supply from BRUB.

The rebroadcast of the ringing signal over the BRUB introduces the concept of the cadence of the ring signal to identify the source of the signal. Those of us in UK will instantly recognise the ring- ring- pause of our phone system.

PIR detectors tend to have a single short pulse output for each movement of a "warm" object or more correctly localised change of Infra red signature.

So a short tick from our BRUB sounders means someone/thing has triggered the PIR and the ring ring pause means the phone is ringing. This means electrically everything can be kept simple and the Mk1 brain can readily work out what is the source of the alert.
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 21 Aug 2014, 19:29

Intercom.

The BRUB can be used as an intercom or internal phone system.

Image

Near to each phone, a small push button and the ever present diode is put on a box.

Having agreed a code between members of the household, to call someone, pick up the phone and just press the button the requisite number of times. When the other person picks up their phone, dial a single number to cancel the dialling tone. You can then speak over the phone and just hang up once you have passed on the message.

Another variant is supposing the phone rings and someone answers but it is not for them. Simply press the button to alert the right person and when they pick up, just hang up. Simples!

Handy or what?

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby RogerS » 21 Aug 2014, 21:40

Handy and very elegant.
Fewer Smart things. More smart people.
User avatar
RogerS
Sequoia
 
Posts: 8840
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: BRUB!

Postby chataigner » 22 Aug 2014, 14:09

This is fascinating Bob, I installed something similar in my first house in 1972. My system used a reel of 8 core cable I found in an army surplus store and old style post office relays, so 50vDC supply. The cable ran around the house and garage (workshop) with latching relays to control things like lighting positioned as required. Control was by 3 way biased toggle switches placed as required anywhere on the bus. See circuit below. The resistor in series with the relay latching circuit protects from shorting the supply when turning off. (I'm embarrased to say I posted a diagram earlier of how I remembered it, then realised it could not have been like that, so looked out my old files and realised I had confused two different systems. Hope no-one saw it before I deleted and corrected it.) :oops: :oops:

Image

One its jobs was to sound several small buzzers when the doorbell was pushed, didnt have the phone integrated though !
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 892
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 22 Aug 2014, 14:18

Before lunch, I'd spotted your post and tried to go back to it only to find it said posted 4 minutes ago and yet I'd made sandwiches and eaten them in the meantime :shock:

I was beginning to think I might be the only one running such a bus round the house - glad to have found a kindred spirit in you David!!

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby chataigner » 22 Aug 2014, 16:47

If I was doing it today I'd use AS-i, supports 64 I/O, up to 300m run, all on 2 wire with nodes connected by crimp on insulation displacement connectors. But that is 40 odd years on !
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 892
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 22 Aug 2014, 17:14

Yes lots of choice on standards/methods today both with separate wiring and mains borne.
Mine was devised/installed around 82/83 and built on subsequently and your predates mine by 10 years or so.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby Rod » 22 Aug 2014, 17:47

Watching with interest - will have a go sometime?

Rod
User avatar
Rod
Old Oak
 
Posts: 4464
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:34
Location: Winchester, Hampshire
Name:

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 24 Aug 2014, 16:28

Time for some more BRUB


Doorbell.

Image

This is quite straightforward but with a little twist of an added resistor. I have found that over time the contacts in a typical bell push become tarnished. Normally the current drawn by a conventional bell would cause a little spark when the button is released and this would clean the contacts but with BRUB type applications this does not happen so the resistor causes enough current to pass through the bell push to have the same effect.


I did have another circuit that I used because my somewhat daft father in law used to take great delight in beating out a rhythm on the door bell. So I made a little timer circuit that only rang the bell once after he had stopped pushing the button repeatedly. That took the pea out of his whistle!!



Freezer alarm.
This idea started when we had a freezer in a garage in a block separated from the house.

I used a different sensor system with more electronics but a simple freezer thermostat available as a spare part for a few quid would do just as well.

Image

It is possibly best (but not essential) to use a cadence circuit to identify the type of the alarm. I use one short pulse every 10 seconds or so for the freezers.

For remote upright freezers where the door could get left ajar, a door sensor could be added too?


I hope by now the general idea of types of alarms, cadence identification and re-use of simple cheap sensors is starting to soak in.

I possibly won't do any more of this class of application of BRUB. Next time I'll move on to more sophisticated ideas that start to make use of the spare wire that so far has remained unused.

If you have ideas for other sensing requirements and want ideas for sources of sensors then feel free to ask.



Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 27 Aug 2014, 19:50

Using the spare wire

The real flexibility of BRUB comes from applications of the sixth wire marked as spare in the diagrams.

The first application I had was when my son was born and we wanted some sort of baby alarm. This enabled us to listen in to what was happening in the nursery.

Image

The spare wire and the 0v line are used for audio. The nursery interface box is a little different. No need for an alarm buzzer in there but instead I fitted a miniature microphone and amplifier.

The other end of the link was a small box with a flying lead that could be plugged in the BRUB in any other room. In that box was a low power amplifier, a volume control and a loudspeaker. Having this capability meant that even when SWMBO was out, I could spend the evening in the workshop and still keep an "ear" on the nursery.
All the parts needed can be robbed from a cheapy cassette recorder from a boot sale.


Moving on a few years is used the same spare line to operate a data link between two apple macs using the Appletalk ports.


Image


I no longer use Macs but I would be surprised if they have dropped Appletalk in favour of things like USB.
Appletalk was a balanced line system that in theory should have two lines isolated from ground but it still worked with the single ended configuration with one line grounded.

I've no experience with USB but it might be possible to use it over BRUB.
Certainly if you were to implement BRUB with a 8 wire cable, then that would work well with USB. The bandwidth might be a bit lower but the USB standard will cope with that as it is inherently rugged over long (=lower bandwidth) cables.

Next time Video over BRUB - I told you it was versatile!

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: BRUB!

Postby 9fingers » 30 Aug 2014, 17:16

OK Last part Video over Brub.

Ideal scheme for keeping an eye on your property with a simple analogue camera. Maybe that old camcorder -too good to throwaway that cost you a lot years ago but made redundant by a tiny hand held gadget.

The cameras usually take 12 v as standard and produce std composite video signals so can sit on BRUB in a convenient location.

Image

Video processors can come as part of a CCTV recorder or you can use a PC card & software. You should be able to extract a motion detection signal which is often used to trigger recording and link that up to the alarm sounders.
Although not on the diagram a TV monitor could be hung on the BRUB anywhere in the house so when the alarm sounds, a quick glance at the monitor will tell you if any action is needed or if next doors cat has strayed into the scene.

Hopefully this series has shown how something as simple as a reel of telephone wire, some surplus bits of domestic electronic, boxes, connectors and simple components can provide some useful functions and without spending lots of cash.
You can be anywhere in the house or workshops and still know what is going on elsewhere.

The only limit is your imagination!

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Sequoia
 
Posts: 6960
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Next

Return to Projects & WIP

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests