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Martin Guitar Kit (It's First Public Outing!)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 25 Aug 2020, 21:47

fiveeyes wrote:My vote for the first..spelled out.


Thanks.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 25 Aug 2020, 21:52

DaveL wrote:Could you do the one spelled out in an oval to make cutting it out easier?



Thanks, Dave. That is an idea I hadn't considered, but I don't have the software for the characters to follow and eclipse, and the 'values' would have to be following from the other direction. I like the idea.

I'm not having the early success with the practices that I'd hoped for. :? These transfer sheets are tricky things to handle. More practice needed. Day off tomorrow meeting up with rellies for lunch at Shaftesbury, at a distance, of course.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby DaveL » 25 Aug 2020, 22:28

Do you have MS word, even an older version has a useful tool called word art that will put letters on a curve.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Andyp » 26 Aug 2020, 06:40

Are transfer really the only option? How about a round metal disc, engraved by your local jeweller? With a good forstner of the same diameter to make the hole.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby MY63 » 26 Aug 2020, 09:03

My friend has just bought a laser engraver I am sure he would engrave it for you, Brass mother of pearl or a piece of wood.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Aug 2020, 09:06

DaveL wrote:Do you have MS word, even an older version has a useful tool called word art that will put letters on a curve.


I haven't had MS Word for years, Dave. I use LibreOffice and its WP has a WordArt tool which does something like that, and I can't get it to look anywhere near right at the small size each letter is in the logo.

LO's Drawing programme has helped design the logos so far. I even tried a ten day free trial of Affinity Designer.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Aug 2020, 09:12

Andyp wrote:Are transfer really the only option? How about a round metal disc, engraved by your local jeweller? With a good forstner of the same diameter to make the hole.



Not necessarily, Andy. Mostly the luthier trade does inlays. I've only just started to learn how to make a guitar, let alone inlaying it's logos. Whatever sort of is employed, even a metal disk, it has to go under the final lacquering and so now all the logo work I'm trying to do is holding up the finishing of the guitars.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Aug 2020, 09:14

MY63 wrote:My friend has just bought a laser engraver I am sure he would engrave it for you, Brass mother of pearl or a piece of wood.



That's an idea, Michael. Thank you. I shall save it for future guitars, if there are any.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 31 Aug 2020, 12:06

I have come to an executive decision and shall not progress the transfer idea any further.

I have used several different transfer media with my Canon inkjet and stuck them to my desk, and a friend has given me his Chinese copy of a well known American model guitar to practice on the back of the headstock. As much as I tried, I could not get the transfers to look professional enough.

Having rubbed down the back of his headstock a number of times, I have filled the stamped digits and letters made by the Chinese manufacturer (and hey mate's own scoring to remove fake information) with CA glue and I'm happy with that process. I shall use it again and can recommend it as a shallow filling process for imperfections in wood. That worked well. I have now re-stained the wood and am re-lacquering it.

So.....I either leave my guitars' headstocks blank as they will have my label on the inside, or as I have no experience or skills with MoP and similar inlay work, I could take up this forum's idea of a copper disc with etched logo inlaid into a shallow round hole.

Any ideas where I can get a small run of, say, ten designed and made up for a cost reflecting the amateur nature of this project?
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby MY63 » 31 Aug 2020, 12:12

Malcolm I am happy to ask my friend to give me a price for laser engraving the logo for you.
I am doing some hoil foil stamping today I will see if it works on wood for you, getting the stamp made and postage would be the only cost to you.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 31 Aug 2020, 12:28

Michael, that's kind of you. Thanks. Please ask him. I like the idea of cooper discs (30mm) as a nod to my first career. Your hot foil idea appeals to me, too. Thanks.

One thing I forgot to add in my post was that I also felt that I couldn't get the artwork looking professional enough with my domestic software, particularly for the worded logo. So I shall have to find somewhere to get that done at a reasonable cost for just the two words.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby 9fingers » 31 Aug 2020, 12:55

Dave Neale of this parish might be able to help and local in Devon

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby MY63 » 31 Aug 2020, 13:12

Hot foil definately works on wood (thin weneer) I am using lead type today to stamp my wifes note books for her return to work tomorrow.
I think the pressure is too high as it is blurring around the edges a proper stamp will not do that.

Image2020-08-31_12-57-44 by my0771, on Flickr

If you are providing the discs my friend will laser engrave them for £5 each for 25 mm discs
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby DaveL » 31 Aug 2020, 13:42

It might be worth checking out any local key and shoe repair shops near you. We have one in Sudbury that has laser engraving kit, they do glass and metal with it and it does look good.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 01 Sep 2020, 20:35

Gents,

Thank you all for your suggestions and recommendations.

I have made contact with Dave Neale and I am already commissioning him. He has been extremely helpful.

I shall provide him with some veneers of the local ash that I have already used for my workbench which he will even out on his drum sander. His laser machine can both cut the circular discs and etch the logo.

We are currently looking at different fonts and sizes in a circular format inside two thin concentric rings and I shall consider filling the etched logos with CA glue after inlaying into he headstocks.

We eliminated copper and any metal because they are mainly pressed and therefore do not leave a clean 90 degree edge. Turned discs would be disproportionately expensive. We have eliminated acrylics even though their effects are nice looking because the nitrocellulose could react with the plastic, so we settled on wood. He likes wood!
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby 9fingers » 01 Sep 2020, 20:41

Dave's a great bloke. We've done odd jobs for each other going way back.

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Sep 2020, 16:45

Service, of a sort, is resumed!

Dave Neale and I have been emailing back and forth on fine details of a logo design.

I've decided to simplify the design and go with the worded version. I've chosen a simple font because those with serifs looked 'busy'. I shall have the logo laser etched onto some light pink beech and cherry discs, which Dave's laser cuts out, about 30mm diameter, and see if I can infill the words and circles with black CA glue. Once flattened, I intend to lacquer over the whole disc.

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In the meantime, when you haven't got a spray booth, you have to improvise.

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I've waited for the rain to stop. The forecast now says I've got 7 straight dry days, and the wind just got up!

The workpieces waiting for the wind to drop. The schedule is something like 3 coats a day on and off for about 7 days and I'll have to bring them in every night.

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Can you spot the difference between a Dreadnought and a 000?!
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Daven » 07 Sep 2020, 19:01

Well a very long time since I have checked in - Laser cutting is keeping us quite busy so not a lot of time to do fun things :-)

I have had a quick scan at the WIP and - well bowled over!!

Looking forward to testing the material for the inserts and seeing how the CA works!
:D

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Lacquer curing, solvent escaping)

Postby Malc2098 » 14 Sep 2020, 16:17

Now I know you've all been waiting with bated breath (or is it baited?) for an update and here it is.

I've had a window of 8 clear days without rain of winds and have at last sprayed 12 coats of nitro cellulose clear lacquer onto both guitars. Whether the spray mixture was the right weight, I don't know.

I've scuffed them with 400 grit paper after every three coats (each sprayed one hour after the other) and today I've scuffed them with 600 grit paper to help the solvent escape. The dust coming off is still white, so at least that means I haven't sanded through to the wood!

They now stay hanging in the workshop for a couple of weeks. After that it's wet 'n' dry from 1000 through 1200, 1500, 2000 and 2500 before buffing.

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I think I prefer the look of the darker grain filler on the left.

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Can you see the difference between the 000 and the Dreadnought shapes?


I've just ordered a complete set of parts for a ukulele, this time from the UK!! Do you want to follow that WIP when I start?
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Ready for Lacquering)

Postby Andyp » 14 Sep 2020, 16:24

Can you see the difference between the 000 and the Dreadnought shapes?


Yes the one on the left has a thinner “waist”.

I’ve found the guitar wip fascinating so yes please for the ukulele WIP. I’ll watch it while I’m cleaning windows :)
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Lacquer curing, solvent escaping)

Postby Malc2098 » 14 Sep 2020, 16:58

Andyp wrote:
Can you see the difference between the 000 and the Dreadnought shapes?


Yes the one on the left has a thinner “waist”.

I’ve found the guitar wip fascinating so yes please for the ukulele WIP. I’ll watch it while I’m cleaning windows :)


The 000 has rounder shoulders and hips, or rather the Dreadnought has squarer shoulders and hips because the 000 is an older design.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Lacquer curing, solvent escaping)

Postby Malc2098 » 17 Sep 2020, 17:38

While the lacquer's curing and the ukulele timber is acclimatising, I had a think about the wieldy binding router jig that I made for the last guitar. I had a look round the industry and a different type is made from aluminium and again, I can't justify that cost. So Looked at if I could replicate the design in wood and anything else I could find in the workshop.

I think the benefit of this jig is that one of the main components of the the work is fixed. In the other I built, both the workpiece, the guitar, and the router moved. This one, the jig is clamped to the bench and the workpiece is moved around letting the cutter only cut where it touches. There is a thick washer that I've smoothed, polished and waxed that holds the guitar body away from the base plate, so only a tiny part of that is touching the contours of the guitar.

I've watched a few guitar factory tours on YT and this set up seems to be what they mostly employ.

Here it is.

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The wood is cherry recycled from some old kitchen cupboard doors. The bearings are old ones off the bandsaw. That's the best way I could find of fitting them to the jig.

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The bearing in the middle of the shaft is so that I can use the jig for the ukulele I'm about to start on.

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Lacquer curing, solvent escaping)

Postby DaveL » 17 Sep 2020, 18:52

That looks like it should work, but it is still quite a scary operation.
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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Headstock logo disc)

Postby Malc2098 » 20 Sep 2020, 16:30

I've been working with Dave Neale of Lasercutz to create a headstock logo disc that I can drop in a forstnered hole on the headstock and relacquer.

I've used some recycled cherry from old kitchen cupboards which is light enough to contrast nicely with the dark rosewood of the headstock.

Dave has lasered the logo shown earlier in the post at different laser strengths, and I've been experimenting with filling the logo with black CA glue.

However, I don't know why, but try as I may, I couldn't get any to work without tiny bubbles that came out light when cured. At Dave's suggestion, I've changed to black acrylic paint.

I washed the disc surface and logo in thin clear CA glue to seal it and prevent leeching. I filled the the letters and circles with paint, three times, because each time they shrank. I then sanded the paint back to wood and then sealed agin with thin CA glue and sanded again with 1000 grit.

The acrylic paint is on the one one on the top left. All the others are black CA glue apart from the one on the right which is bare lasered.

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Re: Martin Guitar Kit (Headstock logo disc)

Postby Andyp » 23 Sep 2020, 06:54

Are you happy with the results Malc?
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