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Mike's ext'n & renovation (sunroom stone floor & plinth)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Rooflight finished)

Postby Malc2098 » 20 Nov 2020, 09:59

Nice work.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Rooflight finished)

Postby Lons » 20 Nov 2020, 11:31

wallace wrote:Lovely work as usual Mike. On the subject of windows, I noticed some loose plaster whilst redoing my bathroom so poked it. Only to find someone had installed the windows with news paper and plastered over it. Northern echo from 1984 :shock: the worst thing is I had the windows replaced with double glazed 15 years ago and the installers never said anything. It would of been clearly visible when pulling the old frames out.

I've lost count of the number of UPVC windows I've removed that have been fitted without a single mechanical fixing just held in by expanding foam and a bit of silicon-ed trim, the good thing is it was a few minutes job with an old hand saw or bread knife to get them out, on the other hand a burglar could do the same. My missus never did find out where that knife went. :lol:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Rooflight finished)

Postby Andyp » 20 Nov 2020, 13:12

Have I missed something Mike? Why is the glass overhanging like that?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Rooflight finished)

Postby spb » 20 Nov 2020, 15:34

The overhang allows water to run off - it's at such a shallow angle that any frame around the lower edge would cause it to pool.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Rooflight finished)

Postby Andyp » 20 Nov 2020, 16:04

spb wrote:The overhang allows water to run off - it's at such a shallow angle that any frame around the lower edge would cause it to pool.


Of course. Thanks that makes perfect sense.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Rooflight finished)

Postby Mike G » 20 Nov 2020, 20:03

Yep, that's right. It's called a stepped DGU (double glazed unit), and is pretty standard at the bottom edge of rooflights and glazed rooves such as conservatories. Any sort of gasket or flashing there and water would pool, and you'd soon have moss growing.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Mike G » 01 Jan 2021, 19:22

Next on the agenda was an airing cupboard on the landing, which had looked like this for 3 or 4 years:

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That's with a 3x1 frame all around, already in position. Simple half-lap joints, and all scribed to the wonky walls. I had to get the frame in place before starting work on the doors, because I needed the exact size of the opening, obviously. The doors are going to be a mix of softwood frames and MDF panelling. I don't normally work in MDF, but airing cupboard doors are prone to movement because of the heat and occasional damp, and MDF is very stable in those circumstances. It's all going to be painted. The softwood element is ex 32mm thick (finishes about 27 or 28mm), so plenty of room for some decent joints:

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I've described many times how I prefer chiselling tenon cheeks, rather than sawing:

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No such option, though, for the female side of the bridle joint:

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That saw is quite coarse (9 or 10 TPI, and rip cut) so ideal for these big but accurate long-grain cuts. Note also the angle of the wood in the vice, enabling me to follow both the long grain and the end grain marks at the same time. You then flip the wood over to follow down the other face. The bridle joint, for me, is the most difficult of the standard joints....far harder than dovetails, for instance. The idea is to make the joint fit well directly from the saw, without any paring:

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I then ran a groove around all of the pieces, carefully stopping on the tenons. This groove was carefully located the exact depth of the MDF down from the face of the frame:

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Dry fit:

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OK, they're boring doors! I pulled all that lot apart, and then got to work with the chamfering bit, before gluing up. The central pseudo-muntin is just planted on the face of the panel, and weighted down as the glue dried:

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Stop chamfers take a little thinking about, but I've done a few in my time and managed not to make any cock ups this time:

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Now, I doubt many pros working with MDF would use a shooting board, but it still strikes me as the easiest and quickest way to make the necessary minor adjustments to make everything fit:

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I couldn't easily clamp those little horizontal pieces in place, so I just screwed them, removing the screws when the glue had dried:

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I have no idea what I am doing with MDF, frankly. Machine chamfered edges were a bit rough, so I sanded them by hand, then sealed everything up with sanding sealer. I don't normally use the stuff, as I've always thought of it as just for turners, but I happened to have this tin of the stuff from a friend's garage clearance a while back:

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After the glue dried, it was into my door stand thingies for a quick clean up of the edges:

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I chopped in 3 three inch hinges per door:

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Then headed in and hung them:

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I still need to find some handles and catches, and make a core or grill for the air vents at the top. Then I can hand the job over to the painting team, and move on to the next exciting instalment.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby AJB Temple » 01 Jan 2021, 23:37

Nice neat job Mike, especially the stopped chamfers. I'm not a fan of MDF either but having decided to do painted panelled walls in MR MDF (as it saved a lot of time and money) I found it really hard work to get a clean edge finish even on MR MDF. There is a slight fluffiness to it that never occurs with solid wood. I spent much more time doing primer, then sanding, undercoat and sanding, re-coat and sand on the cut edges, before getting a satisfactory result for the top finish.

Did you find that the sanding sealer dealt with that or did you not have any problem with crispness of edges?

Looks like you have a few more doors to do up there?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Andyp » 02 Jan 2021, 08:06

I spy another pending job for your mate’s lathe. :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Mike G » 02 Jan 2021, 10:08

Yes, Adrian, upstairs doors are one of the biggest remaining jobs. There are temporary doors on all the rooms at the moment, being mainly 1960s doors taken from the house during renovation. I'm currently thinking of doing softwood ledge and boarded doors of recycled or otherwise battered timber, and using some sort of wash paint finish. I never knew that "too much wood" was a thing until the other half of the design team raised the issue a while back.

As to the edges of the MDF......I'm really not sure if I've solved the issue or not. I'll give them a light sand today and slap the first coat of paint on, then I'll have a clearer idea of whether it is still an issue.

Those newel caps won't be turned, Andy, so I've no excuse, really. The only turned one will be the main one downstairs, which will be a turned and carved acorn. That may have to wait a while.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Cabinetman » 02 Jan 2021, 10:27

Very nice job Mike, I agree with you about bridle joints, they can be tricky to get exactly right straight from the saw, Mine tells me there is something wrong with me liking green ha ha but I think they look quite nice the way they are – no I wouldn’t keep them as MDF either. Proportions are good by the way, not everybody can do that successfully. Ian
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Malc2098 » 02 Jan 2021, 10:47

Looks really nice.

While making the Christmas Toy Boxes last month, I used normal, not MR, MDF and rounded over all the edges vertical and horizontal so that wouldn't be sharp on a child's skin while playing with or near the box.

I gave the whole box, inside and out, 2 coats of MDF primer with a foam roller. The roller left a slightly textured finish. So I sanded them back a little after they had dried hard. That left the edges really smooth, and after two coats of matt emulsion, you couldn't even, to paraphrase Eric Morecambe, see the joins.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby AndyT » 02 Jan 2021, 14:16

Nice work, as ever.
If I can offer a suggestion, you could have run the grooves all the way through and shortened the open mortices accordingly.

Did you glue the panels in?

I made some airing cupboard doors a few years ago, before there was any online advice. I reasoned that the ply panels wouldn't shrink and that any shrinkage on the frame would just reduce the width of the stiles and rails a little. I was right and the doors have stayed sound and flat.
The corner joints weren't m+t or bridles - they were biscuits, set in grooves made with my new electric router!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby AndyT » 02 Jan 2021, 14:17

Mod Edit:

Duplicate post deleted

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Mike G » 02 Jan 2021, 15:35

AndyT wrote:Nice work, as ever.
If I can offer a suggestion, you could have run the grooves all the way through and shortened the open mortices accordingly.......


That's very true, but it would have dictated the size (possibly) and the location (definitely) of the joint. I've done that before and battled with it a bit, so I tend to stick to the old maxim of doing the joints first these days.

Nice to hear that yours stayed flat. I have some hope that these will be OK.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Dave65 » 02 Jan 2021, 20:50

Another nice job Mike, can I ask why bridle joints as opposed to standard mortise and tenons ?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Mike G » 02 Jan 2021, 21:46

Thanks Dave.

Because, in my view, M&Ts that close to the end of the stiles are structurally bridle joints anyway. We're only talking about 70mm wide timber here, so if I had chopped mortises say 20 or 25mm from the end the tenons would only have been 45 or 50 wide......and that remnant bit of 20/ 25 timber between the mortise and the end of the wood would be puny and certain to fail at some stage.

It would be an altogether different story if this was ex 4" timber, as with most doors. Bottom rails can sometimes be ex 6" or even 8", which moves the joint far enough from the end of the stile as to be well worthwhile doing a wedged M&T.

Don't take any notice of me on this, though. We have pros here who would have better idea. I'm self-taught, and sometimes when I work things out from first principles I might end up with something the old timers would frown on, for all I know. Sometimes, too, I just do joints for the hell of it. I like making joints. :) My next job might be hand-tools only, I think.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby AJB Temple » 02 Jan 2021, 23:23

Very logical reasoning. Makes sense to me.

Not so sure about the "too much wood". When it comes to doors it is not unusual for houses, especially timber framed, to have a theme that is followed through. I just cracked on and did oak planked and ledged doors throughout the house, and oak floors everywhere upstairs (over sound reducing insulation). Mrs AJB T seems OK with it but has gone in for the full Farrow and Ball / Little Green decor scheme.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Dave65 » 03 Jan 2021, 09:38

Thanks Mike, that makes perfect sense. I have similar pair of doors to make my daughter, not an airing cupboard but a cupboard over a bulkhead over the stairs, in a house that’s hotter than hell!! She does not understand that you can turn heating down or, God forbid, even off!!!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby chataigner » 03 Jan 2021, 11:33

Malc2098 wrote:Looks really nice.

While making the Christmas Toy Boxes last month, I used normal, not MR, MDF and rounded over all the edges vertical and horizontal so that wouldn't be sharp on a child's skin while playing with or near the box.

I gave the whole box, inside and out, 2 coats of MDF primer with a foam roller. The roller left a slightly textured finish. So I sanded them back a little after they had dried hard. That left the edges really smooth, and after two coats of matt emulsion, you couldn't even, to paraphrase Eric Morecambe, see the joins.


I've done the same on exposed MDF cuts - sealer, then a couple of coats of finish lightly sanded between coats and the fuzziness is gone.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Mike G » 03 Jan 2021, 13:20

I've never used MDF sealer. Is it a thin watery stuff?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Landing cupboard)

Postby Malc2098 » 03 Jan 2021, 21:22

The mdf primer I used is water based and similar in consistency to emulsion. It can be brushed or rollered on. I found it needed two coats, especially on the furry bits, but when dried hard sanded flat nicely.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Garage base)

Postby Mike G » 13 Apr 2021, 19:49

Time to build the garage.

Firstly, I cleared the site. This involved moving all sorts of crap, then spreading bags and bags of shavings etc from the workshop:

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The bog oak stands out quite plainly, as does sapele.

Then, I set fire to it:

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The site is some land we bought from the farmer, which was probably up to a couple of feet lower than our land in places. I collected a huge pile of rubble and hardcore from the building works when sorting out the house, and we flattened this a few years ago to provide a temporary parking space. This means that the garage is being built on an extremely well compressed mound of hardcore, with a grassy/ weedy mat on the top. The building will be under 30m square internally, so doesn't require BR approval, so becaue of the strange ground conditions I decided to build it in a glorified "Mike's shed" way......directly off a concrete slab.

The formwork is 195 x 45 softwood, which will see a permanent use as the ceiling joists (ties). This I built directly on top of the hardcore, rather than dug in, and even with this build-up, the top of the concrete is only just level with the edge of the road:

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It took me 2 days with a pick and shovel to remove the organic matter, and level the rather uneven hardcore. I then pegged and propped the formwork, taking a lot of care to get it parallel with the house, level, and square. It's absolutely spot on, which will really help with the brickwork:

I put a mesh in at the bottom, supported on bits of broken concrete paving slab, and twitched it all together with zip ties:

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I don't like drilling near the edge of newly cast concrete, so instead of resin anchoring the threaded rods (16mm studding) which will hold the foot of the central post, I welded them to a spare bit of reinforcing, and screwed the whole thing in place so that they will be cast into place:

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Note the lack of a DPM. The small amount of plastic is just to keep the form timbers clean, so that they can be re-used. It will also help prevent seepage out from under the formwork. The building is built on a substantial plateau of hardcore just a few feet away from a 5 foot deep ditch, and it is permanently open. Reinforced concrete 195mm thick is all but watertight anyway, but even if it wasn't, the only reason I can think of to have a DPM in this particular circumstance is to help the concrete flow a little easier when it's poured. Immediately adjacent to this garage will be a bike shed. This will be enclosed, and will only have a slab probably 120mm thick. Because of the very different circumstances, it will be built with a DPM. It's not impossible I'll build it on a strip footing, which will enable continuity of DPM and DPC. Different circumstances, different design, despite being only 4 feet away.

Here are a couple of elevations of what I'm building. The longer elevation is facing the house, and the gable elevation is facing the road. The detail at the head of the corner posts has changed slightly since I drew this image:

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Just for the sake of clarity: no-one should copy this foundation arrangement. This is a very peculiar set of circumstances which are unlikely to be applicable to other sites. It most certainly wouldn't pass inspection by the local authority. Luckily, in my case it doesn't have to.

I'm hoping to pour concrete on Friday.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Garage base)

Postby the bear » 13 Apr 2021, 20:31

Looking forward to this next instalment mike. Will it be a full oak frame you make or just the front? At least I assume oak framed, this style of garage round my way always is.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (Garage base)

Postby Mike G » 13 Apr 2021, 20:40

Yes, oak posts and beam at the front, that's all.
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