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Mike's ext'n & renovation (sunroom stone floor & plinth)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 08:35

I will try pressure washing it when the building is roofed, and I can also try brick acid, but I suspect it is there for good now. The ultimate solution might be to spread oak shavings evenly over the whole thing, and turn the sprinkler on! :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby AJB Temple » 17 May 2021, 09:01

I read through this again this morning, more carefully, as there are always ideas I can pinch. :?

I had not heard of the lead trick before, Mike. I'm surprised it beats out enough but I have mentally filed that one.

I very much like the capitals rather than wind braces and I will copy that in the future just for interest, in fact I might do it on my bridging beam in the new room, as a feature. but there is no doubt that the jointing is a good deal more work and requires a lot of precision which is always a risk with oak that moves as soon as you look sideways at it. A single beam across the whole front looks much nicer, and is stronger, but I guess you could have bridged it with a centre join, in which case your lift would be easier and the centre join less risky to execute. Especially as that beam will be largely hidden by the roof overhang?

Does the centre post have a tad of twist on it at the bottom? It looks like the overhang against the staddle is not even, but that may be photo parallax?

Are you going to fill the gap between staddle and post (now thicker than intended due to the double layer of lead)?

Tannin stains are inevitable. Very annoying. You can reduce them a lot by applying chlorine in the form of cheap domestic bleach with a little detergent - the latter allegedly improves penetration into the porous surface. Leave for an hour (don't let it dry - just apply more) then jet wash. In my experience it does not go completely but reduces a great deal.

Superb job. I well know how nerve racking big lifts into joints are. Adrian
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby 9fingers » 17 May 2021, 09:05

Mike G wrote:I will try pressure washing it when the building is roofed, and I can also try brick acid, but I suspect it is there for good now. The ultimate solution might be to spread oak shavings evenly over the whole thing, and turn the sprinkler on! :)


I suspect the tannin will be more that just superficial and brick acid might damage the concrete in you boat house. A strong bleach from a janitorial suppliers might be a better approach?

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Stargazer » 17 May 2021, 09:24

AJB Temple wrote:I had not heard of the lead trick before, Mike. I'm surprised it beats out enough but I have mentally filed that one.


An interesting aside, when working in Australia every year we removed the primary mirror from the telescope to be stripped, cleaned and re-aluminised. This involves extracting and lowering a 13 tonne mirror 4m in diameter down through a hatchway 4 storeys down through the building.

Once lowered it was placed (carefully!) on 3 steel pillars 450mm diameter for support. If there is any point loading (grit, raised edge due to uneven floor below the pillar) then the self weight of the mirror would cause it to crack.

For this reason the tops of the pillars were lined with 5mm of soft lead as a compliant surface. (rubber or foam of no use due to the chemicals used for cleaning the mirror).
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby the bear » 17 May 2021, 09:40

Great work as always. The sideways rain I found washed out the tannin on my green oak porch and some green oak posts I have supporting a roof overhang. Stained the brickwork below. However jet washing the brickwork got it moving again and washed I off the bricks and away without leaving anything significant on the bricks. If the staining is on the surface jetwashing might be all you need Mike

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Cabinetman » 17 May 2021, 10:24

Really very impressive Mike, loved the home-made domino, I can almost hear the pegs going through and it all pulling tight. If you’re going to be using it as a boat shed (shush) you could perhaps use some workshop floor paint? Never used it so I don’t know if it would chip and mark in the future Ian
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 12:30

AJB Temple wrote:.....Does the centre post have a tad of twist on it at the bottom? It looks like the overhang against the staddle is not even, but that may be photo parallax?

Are you going to fill the gap between staddle and post.......


The post isn't twisted, but the staddle casting wasn't perfect. I think my approach will be to leave it all untouched through the summer, and then infill before winter. That should cover some of the shrinkage, and if there is any additional movement when the roof is loaded (tiled). I've got some brown gunk for under the posts on the brickwork, but I'm in two minds regarding the central post. That might end up with a strong white mortar, or a flexible sealant, or a combination of the two.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 12:32

Cabinetman wrote:........I can almost hear the pegs going through and it all pulling tight.........


One of my favourite things in all woodworking......the increasing pitch of a peg hammering home. It comes moments after the worst possible scenario: the peg breaking off when it hits the tenon!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 12:33

Stargazer wrote:.......For this reason the tops of the pillars were lined with 5mm of soft lead as a compliant surface. (rubber or foam of no use due to the chemicals used for cleaning the mirror).


Great story! And not everyone notices details like that.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 12:35

AJB Temple wrote:.....I had not heard of the lead trick before, Mike. I'm surprised it beats out enough........


It could beat down to nothing if required.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 15:13

9fingers wrote:....... A strong bleach from a janitorial suppliers might be a better approach?

Bob


Good tip, Bob. I'll give that a try if the pressure washing doesn't do the trick.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby PAC1 » 17 May 2021, 16:39

Mike G wrote:
9fingers wrote:....... A strong bleach from a janitorial suppliers might be a better approach?

Bob


Good tip, Bob. I'll give that a try if the pressure washing doesn't do the trick.


Mike, As long as you did not use a polymer reinforced concrete, as I understand the bleach can attack the polymer.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (oak complete, roof starte

Postby Mike G » 17 May 2021, 16:57

No, I didn't. But thanks for the tip.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Mike G » 18 May 2021, 18:30

Better forecast today, so I thought I would pop the roof on.

Firstly, I drew it (well, extracted the rafters from my existing drawing), then transferred the measurements onto some 6x2s to form my patterns:

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The front and back are different, because of the different thickness of the oak beam and the flitch beam. What they both have in common, though, is that the rafters meet them in a way which was common in old buildings, but is practically unseen these days. The resulting joint is why I think the name "birdsmouth" arose:

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I did a quick template for some bolt holes:

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I then cut out 13 pairs of rafters, and stacked them up on horses for easy access onto the roof:

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I sorted out the ridge beam, with a quick 'n dirty scarf:

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I then took it up onto the rafters and transferred their locations onto the ridge so as to mark the fixing locations for the top of the rafters:

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Erecting a roof by yourself needs careful thought. For a start, you are handling big timbers at height, and there is nothing solid around you. In fact, there is nothing solid around you even when a whole lot of rafters are up, because they can flop over like a line of dominoes (dominos?). You haven't got a roof until you've got some bracing in. Anyway, I digress. The plan is to stand up a pair of rafters at convenient locations at either end of the ridge beam. But if you pick up a pair of rafters, you need something to stop it falling over either way, so I clamp on a temporary post:

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I then screwed and clamped a bit of batten at roughly the right level and gap to easily received the ridge beam:

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This pair of rafters then gets carefully lifted carefully into place, and clamped:

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Repeat for the other end:

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The ridge beam is then lifted carefully into place. Carefully. You can't push it at all because the house of cards will come crashing down:

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Ignoring those first 2 pairs of rafters, I then lift rafters up and nail them into place inside the original temporarily-braced ones. These are now locating the ridge beam properly. I do this so that at no stage am I fiddling with the rafters which are the sole support for the ridge beam:

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Then it's just a question of filling in the gaps. Once I had a good number of the pairs up, I measured at the gable with a spirit level to make sure the ridge was properly located (ie the roof wasn't racked), and then screwed on a temporary batten as a brace. Phew! Relax. You've now got a solid structure:

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I then went around the eaves and nailed them all securely and permanently, and did the same at the ridge. On to the next bit of ridgeboard. Obviously, one end sits nicely on the scarf, but the other needs some support....so we simply repeat what we did at the start:

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It was this sort of day:

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The end pairs of rafters don't have birdsmouths as the are sitting on the side wall plates. They were hard to reach, but I got them in:

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I'll never leave a roof unbraced, so I cut and fixed 4 pieces of 4x1 to the underside of the rafters, connecting the ridges at the gables to the plates/ beams in the middle:

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On to the catslide part of the roof. I extracted the critical dims from my drawing:

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I only had time to make one and test fit it, before the heavens opened and that was close of play for the day:

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Malc2098 » 18 May 2021, 18:34

Nice job.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Dr.Al » 18 May 2021, 19:29

I'm really enjoying reading this. It seems like an incredible thing to be doing mostly on your own.

:text-bravo:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby AJB Temple » 18 May 2021, 19:38

Annoyingly quick. 8-)

Straightforward job but nicely done Mike. I know it doesn't need it but I wouldn't have been able to resist putting some cross ties high up.

Clearly the intention is to have access to the roof space. Are you going board it out?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Mike G » 18 May 2021, 19:53

Probably, possibly, but not for walking around on. Just any old something or other to take the odds and ends which will end up getting stuffed up there.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby 9fingers » 18 May 2021, 20:00

Mike G wrote:Probably, possibly, but not for walking around on. Just any old something or other to take the odds and ends which will end up getting stuffed up there.



A sail loft perhaps? :lol:

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Mike G » 18 May 2021, 20:35

Now now Bob...... ;) :lol:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Mike G » 18 May 2021, 20:38

AJB Temple wrote:.... I know it doesn't need it but I wouldn't have been able to resist putting some cross ties high up.....


A builder neighbour stopped by and said exactly the same thing. If the joists were raised, then there is an argument for it, but they're not, so all you'd achieve is a lowered head height and something to bang your head on.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby AJB Temple » 18 May 2021, 20:44

OK. Thanks for the explanation. I've said before I have a tendency to overbuild, probably through belt and braces safety born of ignorance. I do like the fact that you have no intrusions into the roof space. Makes it potentially very useful. I think I would stick a few sheets of OSB in there whilst access is so easy. Quick job to get a floor in without having to get it up through the hatch.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Mike G » 18 May 2021, 21:07

Annoyingly, I made the hatch 800 x 1200. Not 1220+, of course, so a sheet won't fit up. Really clever, Mike. I'll maybe push a few sheets up through the gable before it's infilled. I've just seen that a major storm is coming in on Thursday and Friday, so I won't be felting and battening until after it has gone.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby Mike G » 19 May 2021, 14:15

Believe it or not, 18mm chipboard flooring is appreciably cheaper than 18mm OSB in my builders merchant at the moment, so I have ordered enough to board out the loft.

-

I got distracted again. I took the morning off drawing to build the catslide roof:

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Now that's it. I'm drawing until 5.00 Friday afternoon.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (roof structure up)

Postby AJB Temple » 19 May 2021, 15:44

I knew you would see sense Mike!

I like those rafter end details. Well worth taking an extra bit of trouble.
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