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Box help please

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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 16 Jan 2020, 22:32

Thanks Dave and Bob the scotia moulding is quite expensive and has to be altered to get what I need. I had assumed that making them with a router would be quicker and more cost effective but now you have made me think about it the router bit was more expensive than the scotia.
The other reason to change to the routed version was to raise the sides or deepen the slot depending on your point of view. I am thinking I should try to adapt my current method rather than spending anymore time on this.

Image2020-01-16_04-43-41 by my0771, on Flickr

I am sharing my plan to make the whole project clearer to everyone including myself. I am going to cut a groove top and bottom on opposite sides to allow the trays to stack in threes. The trays for the pens will be 25 mm high as you can see from the drawing the gap is 28mm this will allow the bottom of the middle and top bases to have a pad underneath, this will stop the pens moving around in transit.

Another question does adding the spline to the mitre increase the strength of the joint.
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Re: Box help please

Postby 9fingers » 16 Jan 2020, 23:09

OK that helps and gives me an idea of how I would do it.

Cut stock 31 x 5 mm. Make box joints with 5mm fingers and with glue clearance. This should fit nicely in 31mm

Glue and clamp square and flat to dry.

Cut stock 28 x 5. Mitre ends and line the frames made above. Using some 8mm spacers wrapped in parcel tape, glue the inner linings in place.

Fit the base and the job's a good un.

Bob
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 17 Jan 2020, 09:27

Thanks Bob I appreciate you taking the time to help me with this.
I don't have a table saw and my timber yard are reluctant to cut 5mm strips on their machine 10mm is about as thin as they will cut for me. With that in mind I have already bought a load of Sapele 10 mm x 35 mm.
I have a small router table which I have used to cut groves for bases on other projects so I am fairly confident I can cut the required shape.
As I am having a total rethink is the router the best tool for the job or would a track saw work better ? I have 3 lengths 2.4 m long.
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Re: Box help please

Postby 9fingers » 17 Jan 2020, 09:53

The track saw will be fine for the base and with a bit of care the cross cuts although your bandsaw could be easier for final trim of parts.
Router table for the external rebates and with some stops, the internal rebate too. A sharp chisel to square off the internal radii of the corners.
I don’t think I’d use splines on such small joints. Too fiddly. But instead derive strength from all round gluing of the base board. Fitting the base as you assemble should be a good way of holding everything square. There is a slight risk of wood movement with this approach so try and get an all over coat of finish on ASAP.
HTH
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Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
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Re: Box help please

Postby RogerS » 17 Jan 2020, 10:45

Michael, you're a man after my own heart with your elegant designs. Thin is good in my book, as well!

With small mouldings - I have long given up messing about with making them if I can get away with buying stuff off the shelf. I value my fingers too much although I do have the luxury of a small power feed on my router for when I do.

Don't forget, if you're stuck you're always more than welcome to come on over.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 17 Jan 2020, 22:46

Thanks Bob
My plan was to use the router to cut the rebates top and bottom before I cut the wood to size which is where I thought I could use the track saw instead. This worked quite well on my previous project.
I have cut the bases with my CMS which I will also use to cut the mitres.

Roger I always appreciate your support and offers of practical help and invites I am not sure if I would describe them as elegant but thanks.

I went and bought some more scotia moulding this morning and then visited Bay Plastics to ask their advice about the issue with their help I have some new plastic pieces that will help me to create my new plan.
My new plan is to trim the scotia mould and when I glue them together back to back I will add a vertical piece in between them this will give me the additional height I am looking for.
They also had some adjustable corner moulding that I thought I would find useful so I bought 5 metres.
This mock up may give the idea

Image2020-01-17_08-05-11 by my0771, on Flickr

Maybe laminating some grey board together will be my best option as it sands easily and takes glue really well.
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 18 Jan 2020, 18:10

Ok here we go with the next attempt at the stacking tray. I bought some new scotia moulding and set the bandsaw to trim one edge to allow it to lie flush with the gray board.

Image2020-01-18_04-48-41 by my0771, on Flickr

Unfortunately it took me most of the day to get to this point. the dividing pieces are intended to go up to the top of the sides of the tray.

Image2020-01-18_04-36-57 by my0771, on Flickr

Still not sure it is right.
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 19 Jan 2020, 18:35

Everything I did over the last few days has led to producing this.

Image2020-01-19_05-08-59 by my0771, on Flickr

Only 5 more to make now.
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Re: Box help please

Postby DaveL » 19 Jan 2020, 18:39

So a question, is that white 'tray' plastic or leather?
How did you form it over your mould?

Well that's two questions!
Regards,
Dave
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 19 Jan 2020, 19:36

Hi Dave the white stuff is HIPS high impact polystyrene I heat it with a hot air gun and use a dowel to push it into place.
I usually cover these in suede however in this situation where weight is a key factor I will use a synthetic suede which is lighter than real suede. Unfortunately it is also much more difficult to glue spray adhesive is one of the few options.
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Re: Box help please

Postby DaveL » 19 Jan 2020, 19:39

Thanks for that information, the only way I have seen things like that done before is with heat and vacuum forming.
Regards,
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Re: Box help please

Postby StevieB » 19 Jan 2020, 19:50

Could you use flocking rather than suede?
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 19 Jan 2020, 20:02

You are welcome Dave I appreciate your help, I think vacuum forming would be an option if I can ever find a pump.
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 23 Jan 2020, 18:26

StevieB wrote:Could you use flocking rather than suede?


Hi StevieB I have seen people on youtube use flocking but to be honest I prefer suede although on this project I am planning on using a synthetic suede similar to Alcantara but a fraction of the price.

Image2020-01-22_08-15-02 by my0771, on Flickr

I set up my little router table to shape the Sapele I am not going to use this wood again as it splinters easily

Image2020-01-22_08-20-02 by my0771, on Flickr

After cutting and mitering I started assembly.

Image2020-01-23_03-05-26 by my0771, on Flickr

The first 3 trays are assembled as I only have 3 clamps I am doing them in two batches.

Image2020-01-23_03-05-13 by my0771, on Flickr

Test fitting the insert after gluing the frame together I inserted the base and glued it in place As you can see the insert is too big as it needs to be wrapped and edge pieces need fitting
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Re: Box help please

Postby 9fingers » 23 Jan 2020, 18:35

Good progress!

Yes sapele does splinter easily.
Beech is usually quite well behaved in smaller sections but can burn if you dilly-dally pushing it through the router.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 23 Jan 2020, 19:31

Thanks Bob I will try Beech next time I will try to find a supplier who can give me two thinner pieces so I can glue them together as suggested earlier. which will save me all the work with the router.
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Re: Box help please

Postby 9fingers » 23 Jan 2020, 19:57

Your average wood yard wont be too keen on producing 5mm thick stock but I was reading this thread earlier today https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/topic121087.html
The suggestion there was ebay in the craft section.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 23 Jan 2020, 20:37

Thanks Bob I used 7.2 m of 35 mm x 10 mm I guess I might be better off sticking to the router and finding a better timber like the Beech you suggested.
I think an upgrade of router table may be in my future :D
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 29 Jan 2020, 23:35

It took me forever to get these bl**dy trays to stack I had clearly not taken enough off with the router a total nightmare. But they now stack.

Image2020-01-28_05-35-39 by my0771, on Flickr

My next problem was the lids I made them from MDF and needed to do something with them we decided to paint them. On the day I painted them it got really cold very quickly and even with my new heater it would not dry.

Image2020-01-28_05-35-06 by my0771, on Flickr

After 2 days we decided drastic action was required so I rubbed it down and added some veneer.

Image2020-01-29_09-51-29 by my0771, on Flickr

The first one is great the second not so good so I pulled it off and will have another go tomorrow.
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