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Box help please

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Box help please

Postby RogerS » 07 Dec 2019, 10:55

Woodbloke wrote:
MY63 wrote:Thanks Roger I knew about pilot holes but using a metal screw before the brass makes sense.
When I worked for Ax a few years ago I penned this little missive on brass screws which you might find useful. Or not, as the case may be - Rob



:text-goodpost:

Bookmarked.
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Re: Box help please

Postby Woodbloke » 07 Dec 2019, 11:14

RogerS wrote:
Woodbloke wrote:
MY63 wrote:Thanks Roger I knew about pilot holes but using a metal screw before the brass makes sense.
When I worked for Ax a few years ago I penned this little missive on brass screws which you might find useful. Or not, as the case may be - Rob



:text-goodpost:

Bookmarked.

Thanks Rog - Rob
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 07 Dec 2019, 12:15

A very useful article on brass screws thanks
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Re: Box help please

Postby Woodster » 07 Dec 2019, 14:47

I haven’t used slotted screws for many years. Sadly I’ve got too many in stock to ignore at times but I dislike both Philips and Pozidrive screws as well. I much prefer using Robertson Screws.
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Re: Box help Final pictures

Postby MY63 » 19 Dec 2019, 08:56

I thought I would share some pictures of this box in its final stages.
The inside is the last part of this project artists gray board around 0.5 mm thick is cut into strips and wrapped in suede before being glued in place. I should be using double sided tape rather than glue but I find the tape difficult to use.

Image2019-12-18_09-17-51 by my0771, on Flickr

When I started this project I made the slots for the pens then built the box around it.

Image2019-11-14_02-15-40 by my0771, on Flickr

This is a fairly expensive and time consuming method of making these trays. I now have an adapter to use my Makita palm router with my guide rails so my plan is to use that in future.
As I need to wrap the wood in suede it needs to be smooth rather than spend hours sanding I just cover the wood with a light card.

Image2019-12-19_07-47-56 by my0771, on Flickr

My plan is now to use a high impact polystyrene which I can mould which will save me a lot of time and is 25% of the cost.

Image2019-12-19_07-48-09 by my0771, on Flickr

This is what it looks like when it is wrapped in suede and fixed in place.

Image2019-12-18_09-18-55 by my0771, on Flickr

The Lady who does the turning demonstrations at my local Axminster store made the pen blank for me so I can make sure they fit. Unfortunately I cannot afford the actual pen so the blank will do.
I have added a link to the mid price fountain pen those of a nervous disposition should be seated :)

https://www.gouletpens.com/collections/ ... 7442605099
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Re: Box help please

Postby Andyp » 19 Dec 2019, 09:56

Such a shame that the medium one is out of stock.

Lovely box though.
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cheers
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Re: Box help please

Postby Malc2098 » 19 Dec 2019, 11:23

Nice. Liking the suede.
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Re: Box help please

Postby Woodbloke » 22 Dec 2019, 11:40

Woodster wrote:I haven’t used slotted screws for many years. Sadly I’ve got too many in stock to ignore at times but I dislike both Philips and Pozidrive screws as well. I much prefer using Robertson Screws.

I've not seen any steel slotted screws either, but I do hoard a 'baccy tin of odd sizes. I dislike Pozidrive as well but I've got too many to chuck away but my preference is for Torx - Rob
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Re: Box help Final pictures

Postby Woodbloke » 22 Dec 2019, 11:45

MY63 wrote:I have added a link to the mid price fountain pen those of a nervous disposition should be seated :)

https://www.gouletpens.com/collections/ ... 7442605099

Sound advice...and I thought Montblanc were spendy! - Rob
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Re: Box help Final pictures

Postby MY63 » 26 Dec 2019, 23:18

Woodbloke wrote:
MY63 wrote:I have added a link to the mid price fountain pen those of a nervous disposition should be seated :)

https://www.gouletpens.com/collections/ ... 7442605099

Sound advice...and I thought Montblanc were spendy! - Rob


Thanks Rob

Maybe you are looking at the wrong Montblanc pens I made a case for a pair of these a year or two ago they come in coral and noir a really dark brown.
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 27 Dec 2019, 16:54

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Re: Box help please Finished and delivered

Postby MY63 » 28 Dec 2019, 22:53

I finished this box at the end of last week and it was collected by UPS on Monday 23rd December it was delivered on Boxing day 4,447 miles pretty impressive I think.

Image2019-12-28_09-41-46 by my0771, on Flickr

Image2019-12-28_09-39-44 by my0771, on Flickr

Image2019-12-28_09-34-23 by my0771, on Flickr
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Re: Box help please

Postby Phil » 29 Dec 2019, 08:59

Very, very smart indeed! :eusa-clap: 8-)

Is that their pen collection?
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 29 Dec 2019, 09:33

Hi Phil
I don't know the full extent of her collection these are by a single maker called Namiki I have found a video of how the pictures and finish are applied the process takes many weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7npkayFktQ

I cant find the video of Namiki fountain pens being made but here is another Japanese maker his waiting list is in years. No CNC here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F12qUyIACM
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Re: Box help please

Postby Phil » 29 Dec 2019, 10:22

Thanks Michael, very interesting process.

I think I will just stick with my Waterman ballpoint pen.
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Re: Box help please

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Dec 2019, 10:55

Very nice.
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Re: Box help please

Postby chataigner » 31 Dec 2019, 09:37

Woodbloke wrote: ...edited...
If the corner was square, you would definitely have enough thickness of wood to fit Ian's hinges.

For a 'stop' simply plane a small chamfer on the back of the lid/box and inset the hinge a fraction - Rob


Yes........but the screw hole at the pivot end tends to land in the mitre joint - not advisable. The hinges are great, but I would hesitate on a mitred box.
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Re: Box help please New project

Postby MY63 » 03 Jan 2020, 11:22

My friend is a pen dealer and wants some new boxes to transport his wares around the world.

Image2020-01-03_10-08-43 by my0771, on Flickr

This is what he currently uses which work well but are difficult to get hold of. The tray has a lip top and bottom so they are stackable.
I usually make trays from hardwood and mitre the corners joining them with glue, However my trays are usually for indoor use as opposed to travel.
I am seeking advice on which wood to use hardwood or maybe mdf I had considered laminating a 3mm piece and a 6 mm piece offset to create the lip at the top and bottom which would save a few hours with the router.
As weight is an issue I plan to paint them do you think the Bedec barn paint would be suitable as a rugged finish is required.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Box help please

Postby StevieB » 03 Jan 2020, 14:52

My gut reaction would be no. If these are being sold around the world, and we have seen from links the price of some of these pens, then toting them round in an MDF painted tray is not going to show them off in their best light. Just my opinion, but something in nice hardwood would be much more preferable. Even if you are just making a transport carrier, the whole package needs to reflect the quality of the merchandise inside (unless you are deliberately trying to disguise this fact)
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 03 Jan 2020, 22:43

Thanks StevieB
I think you are right they should be made from a hardwood. this is a mates rates so I need to keep the cost in mind.
I would love to make little dovetail joints but I think that maybe beyond my abilities at this time.
Box joints look like a possibility can they be cut with a router table ?
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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 15 Jan 2020, 19:21

I am having a rethink on these trays I will try to explain the total height is 33 mm I need a 5 mm grove top and bottom to allow them to stack and 3 mm in the bottom for the base.
This should give me 25 mm inside height. When I have tried making box joints I have had to mitre the top 5 mm and bottom 8mm leaving the 20 mm to get the box joints in which I have found very difficult to do.
So I am going back to mitres with slots for horizontal pieces of wood cut into them.

I usually make my tray moulds from scotia moulding but it works out expensive. I have glued some ply together to cut slots in but the ply is spitting can anyone tell me if MDF would be better.

Image2019-11-02_06-41-36 by my0771, on Flickr
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Re: Box help please

Postby 9fingers » 15 Jan 2020, 21:49

Those inserts are going to be quite tricky to make in almost any timber as they are so thin at the bottom of the channel.
I'd make them in pairs back to back to keep the strength up whilst routing the semi circle. Finally rip along the length.
Another thought would be to make the insert profile and the box base as the same item. This gives you much more strength at the bottom of the channel.

With a bit of care and planning, gluing two thin strips across the end grain of the base will complete the tray.

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Re: Box help please

Postby MY63 » 15 Jan 2020, 23:23

Sorry Bob I don't think I have given you enough information the wood is the mould I have just been out to get a picture.
The actual piece that goes in the tray will be formed in plastic.

Image2020-01-15_09-53-58 by my0771, on Flickr

I glued two pieces of ply together I may have not put enough glue in the joint this may be the cause of the splitting.
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Re: Box help please

Postby DaveL » 16 Jan 2020, 09:49

If you try to cut MDF to the same shape as the ply, the upright bits will have no strength and with the slightest pressure they will snap.
If the moulding you have been using was working but you ruled out due to the cost, could you make your own using just square edge red wood stock on your router table. The normal way to do that is cut the profile on the edge of a wide board, that gives room to hold it while passing in across the router table, then rip the moulded strip off the board on the table saw. If you start with quite a wide board you can safely cut 3 or 4 from the board.
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Re: Box help please

Postby 9fingers » 16 Jan 2020, 10:23

MY63 wrote:Sorry Bob I don't think I have given you enough information the wood is the mould I have just been out to get a picture.
The actual piece that goes in the tray will be formed in plastic.

Image2020-01-15_09-53-58 by my0771, on Flickr

I glued two pieces of ply together I may have not put enough glue in the joint this may be the cause of the splitting.


If the wood is the mould, then is cost really an issue as presumably it can be used many times over?

If it will in fact be the support under the plastic and be delivered with the box then making from real tree wood on the router table as DaveL suggests and designing them as the main body of the box seems the way to go.

Bob
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