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no shellac, use wax?

Help with choosing the right coloured milkpaint to slather all over your new project.

no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 14 Dec 2020, 10:43

My extremely expensive tub of shellac has vanished into some couriers pocket, despite being "tracked" from England so I am now desperate for an alternative finish on my new box.
I could use wipe on poly, but a lot of this box is maple and beech, and poly just turns that yellow.
I have a tub of home made wax given to me by Memzey a couple years ago, but I have never managed to get enough elbow speed up to melt the stuff. :)
I have a tub of (also expensive) Heritage wax. Would that be an acceptable finish starting with bare wood?
I want to keep the maple as white as possible.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby memzey » 14 Dec 2020, 11:12

sunnybob wrote:My extremely expensive tub of shellac has vanished into some couriers pocket, despite being "tracked" from England so I am now desperate for an alternative finish on my new box.
I could use wipe on poly, but a lot of this box is maple and beech, and poly just turns that yellow.
I have a tub of home made wax given to me by Memzey a couple years ago, but I have never managed to get enough elbow speed up to melt the stuff. :)
I have a tub of (also expensive) Heritage wax. Would that be an acceptable finish starting with bare wood?
I want to keep the maple as white as possible.

Knowing the kind of finish you are going for Bob, I wouldn't be putting wax directly on the stock. It will need something to seal the wood first otherwise you won't get the results you're after. Do any of the local shops stock sanding sealer of any sort (acrylic or shellac based)?
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 14 Dec 2020, 11:33

Memzey, There is a DIY store that sells some liberon products. danish oil, finishing oil, and boiled linseed oil. Oh and buffalo wax. But the last one of those I bought the wax had gone white (I was told that it should be yellow)
After that.... nada

This box is a bit different to my usual, I do NOT want it glossy shiny. The box is bubinga and maple with some of my rippled beech on the top and the pattern is amazing. I dont want to tone it down with yellowish shiny.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby memzey » 14 Dec 2020, 13:01

The problem is that when applied to bare wood some of the solvent is absorbed and retained by the fibres. This has the effect of keeping the wax polish in a wetter state than is ideal (finger marks become evident). Won’t Amazon deliver flakes or sanding sealer to you?
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby Woodster » 14 Dec 2020, 14:03

I’d use cellulose sanding sealer and then Wax. Microcrystalline is one of my favourites.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 14 Dec 2020, 14:24

No point ordering anything from anywhere. We are now getting letter post once every three months. Parcels.....no.
Usually my visitors bring stuff for me but this year we havent had any since mid august and the next lot arent scheduled till late may.
Thank you for telling me about the finger prints. Thats an instant dismissal.
Looks like its going to be wipe on poly after all.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby Craig Salisbury » 14 Dec 2020, 14:44

lacquer ? easy to get hold of and a very durable finish
- I am not grumpy, im pragmatic
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 14 Dec 2020, 15:08

I'm not actually sure what lacquer is, but too late now. I've applied the first very thin coat of wipe on poly. So far it looks stunning. lets hope i can keep that thought alive. :shock: :lol: 8-)
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby droogs » 14 Dec 2020, 19:47

If absolutely nothing else available then you could use some thinned clear womans nail polish. it is basically a thick wipe on shellac mix, as a sealer and then wax up
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby memzey » 14 Dec 2020, 19:58

One thin coat of oil based, wipe on poly would probably act as a pretty decent sanding sealer. Why not let that dry and try wax on top of it?
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 14 Dec 2020, 20:45

e

'er indoors doesnt do her own nails. ;)

I mentioned once before in another place about putting wax over poly and got told not to be such a silly boy.

I'll have to decide tomorrow whether it will be another thin coat of poly, or wax.
I tried the two waxes on a scrap piece of maple. One end memzeys home brew, the other end Renaissance wax. Memzeys was much harder to apply, needed far more elbow grease. :shock:
Just after application the renaissance wax was darker and very much slippier. But after 5 minutes i really couldnt tell which end was what.
I did try to leave fingerprints on the piece, but I could not see any after wards. Does that mean I dont have any and can take up diamond thieving to supplement my state pension? 8-) 8-)
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby ScaredyCat » 14 Dec 2020, 23:53

Carnauba wax. melts at a higher temp so finger prints don't mar it
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 15 Dec 2020, 07:11

My supply chain is 2000 miles long and the very best delivery times I can hope for are counted in weeks :(
Count yourself lucky that so much is available so easily for UK and mainland europe. :lol: 8-)
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby memzey » 15 Dec 2020, 10:39

ScaredyCat wrote:Carnauba wax. melts at a higher temp so finger prints don't mar it

Carnauba wax is what Bob has from me. Good as it is, it still benefits from something between it and the wood, especially in Cypriot conditions.
Bob, try the wax I gave you over the single coat of poly. Just give it a load of elbow grease in application and buffing - like we did in Acapulco car park. You can apply more coats of that to get a better result as it will build up. I can think of no reason not to use it over poly, I have done so a number of times. The only thing to remember is if the poly is thinned with white spirit/turps then you must let it dry before putting on the wax. Other than that, you are good to go.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 15 Dec 2020, 12:46

aye aye captain. I've put a second thin coat of poly on this morning. So I'll try the wax tomorrow.

Didnt have any clue what is in that jar, good job I didnt have to smuggle it through customs. :lol:
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby memzey » 15 Dec 2020, 13:04

Remind me Bob, didn’t I give you two variants of the wax polish? One a bit softer than the other? If so, I’m talking about using the harder version.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 15 Dec 2020, 14:57

oops. The first variant was so hard I couldnt even get it to smooth on the wood. I suspected it was made for lathe work. After you gave me the second softer one I binned the first.

Looks like I shall have to go back to plan B. :lol: 8-)
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby memzey » 15 Dec 2020, 18:23

That’s a shame. The second batch has more solvent, which is what makes it easier to apply but less shiny (with the same number of applications that is). After a few coats it should still give the desired effect.
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 15 Dec 2020, 20:46

If I put "less shiny" wax over "very shiny" poly, I should get the desired result,
more or less.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 16 Dec 2020, 09:04

"What did you learn today grandad?"

"Well my boy, today I learnt that wax should not be applied using a green microfibre cloth" :shock:

"Then I learnt how hard it is to remove green speckled wax from a polished wood box." :x

"After that I learnt that its not hard, but impossible to remove green speckled wax unless you sand off the entire box and start all over again and waste 3 days of your life." :evil: :evil:

"And what was the final lesson today grandad?"
" stick to what you know son, stick to what you know. Aint nuffink wrong wiv wipe on poly." 8-) 8-)

Now where did I put that bottle of vodka?
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby droogs » 16 Dec 2020, 18:58

I don't that will be a good thinner for your poly bob
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Re: no shellac, use wax?

Postby sunnybob » 16 Dec 2020, 20:53

I dont waste vodka the way I waste wax. 8-) 8-)
Sanded it all down, put on a very thin coat this morning, and another this afternoon. Hopefully I can get two more coats on tomorrow and then proceed with the box.
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