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5 minute recharge

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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Woodster » 22 Jan 2021, 00:22

We’ve been over much of this ground before.

The number of charging points are increasing at a rapid rate. You don’t need to charge at home like you don’t have a petrol station at home. :lol: There will in time, be a charging point at many of the places you’re likely to park. Supermarkets, DIY stores, sports and community centres, hospitals etc. Plus dedicated charging stations.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2020/08/ ... ive-years/

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/7/2215 ... -gridserve

https://www.zap-map.com/supermarket-ev- ... two-years/

It’s not looking good for the drivers of Diesels though.

https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/diesel-c ... uk-drivers
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby RogerM » 22 Jan 2021, 00:25

flooded charge points.jpg
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Lons » 22 Jan 2021, 02:09

Woodster wrote:It’s not looking good for the drivers of Diesels though.

https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/diesel-c ... uk-drivers

What you missed out of that comment was OLDER DIESELS which seems to be more accurate.

From your own link stating the charges for London which is the profile others will copy
"Most affected by this new charge are diesel drivers, as only the very latest models produced since 2015 are guaranteed to comply with Euro 6 (there are a handful of pre-2015 models that meet Euro 6 standards) and be exempt from the charge. Meanwhile, petrol cars registered after 2005 should be exempt, along with a handful built between 2001 and 2005."
So cars currently under 5 years old are likely to be Euro 6 and therefore compliant, even my 2 year old Motorhome is Euro 6.
So I won't be panicked into swapping mine anytime soon. :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy to embrace technology when it's sufficiently advanced and at the right price point for me which is why I won't shell out any hard earned for quite some time yet.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby RogerS » 22 Jan 2021, 07:06

AJB Temple wrote:No. The future is auto drive with no driver intervention. Speeds and proximity controlled. Cars can be called pods from some nearby call up pool, or shared. Rented as needed as cars are idle 90% of the time.


Thank God I'll be dead, is all I can say. Nanny State.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby novocaine » 22 Jan 2021, 09:13

RogerS wrote:
AJB Temple wrote:No. The future is auto drive with no driver intervention. Speeds and proximity controlled. Cars can be called pods from some nearby call up pool, or shared. Rented as needed as cars are idle 90% of the time.


Thank God I'll be dead, is all I can say. Nanny State.


it's alright, there will always be a bicycle to be powered by and controlled by a human. :D

Ebike? ah nuts.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Woodster » 16 Feb 2021, 16:02

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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby flying haggis » 16 Feb 2021, 16:14

why should the government help to pay for charging points?? they havent paid for filling stations to be built, if these electric cars are such a good idea make the sellers pay for the installation of a charging facility. as for the thought of having to find a charger every 75 miles and to recharge in 5 mins!! i will stick with my nice diesel that i can "recharge" in 5 mins and gives a range of 400 miles plus. what if you get to one of these chargers and there is a queue?
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby droogs » 16 Feb 2021, 17:26

really FH you are using arguments that ae 5 years out of date and if you do drive 400 miles without a break then you are breaking the law however you do it regarding time driving in one continuous block or by speed to cover the distance in a short enough time.Aiways drove from Shanghai to Geneva 2 years ago to put their cars in the motorshow. They took only an hour longer than a diesel "support" vehicle used for comparison. Grow up and stop being a luddite

what if you get to a fuel station and OPEC are having a frump with everyone else and oh no fuel at all and least an electric vehicle has options yours doesn't. Oh why were they using electric cars to do all the emergency support work after fukashima and the tidal wave oh that's right the little nissan leafs were the only cars that could get gojuice via solar chargepoints as there was no electricity for 3 months and hence no way to access the diesel in the wrecked fuelstations. Your moans are facile and turgid
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby RogerS » 16 Feb 2021, 17:37

Ease up, chaps. EV's, diesel cars etc are a very contentious subject.

TBH I'd prefer it if folk stopped posting media references to either.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby TrimTheKing » 16 Feb 2021, 17:39

Keep it civil guys or this post gets locked. None of this is going to be resolved during our lifetimes, but we should all be looking to improve the future for everyone where we can.

In terms of diesels, well I bought one a few years ago (I might have considered differently had I done more research but as we stand I didn't, but I am not financially in a position just to bin that off and buy a whole new vehicle, and I think that goes for the majority of people in this country.

One of the challenges with electric uptake will be, IMO, that unless the government(s) mandate that all oil based fuel cars are scrapped then people will continue to run them until they die. There will be a slow transition to electric as some of them do die and are replaced with electrics, thus pushing the price down and enticing more uptake, but this will take a good while.

I do foresee changes in working behaviours after Covid though so that may well be accelerated further as people realise they don't need as many, or big or even need to own a car at all. That will be interesting to watch, the wife and I have already said that if we move house closer into the village then she will get rid of her big car and get a small electric because that will cut out the need for transport to make small food shop trips etc.

Anyway, I've only left this post open thus far because the comments were calmer than the other one. Please keep it factual and polite and it can stay, get silly and it's over, thanks.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby flying haggis » 16 Feb 2021, 17:46

"" if you do drive 400 miles without a break then you are breaking the law however you do it regarding time driving in one continuous block or by speed""

so how come truck drivers are allowed, and do , to drive for 4 and a half hours without a break

care to explain! and who said anything about driving for 400 miles without a break except you

and i dont take kindly to this either"Grow up and stop being a luddite
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Woodster » 16 Feb 2021, 17:55

TrimTheKing wrote:
One of the challenges with electric uptake will be, IMO, that unless the government(s) mandate that all oil based fuel cars are scrapped then people will continue to run them until they die.


The Government currently plan to ban ICE cars from our roads in 2050 but as the ban on the sales of new ICE cars has been brought forward first five years earlier and then ten who knows. People won’t be able to “run them until they die” as you say because they’ll be priced off the road. If the rich did want to continue then yes in theory they could, until the ban. Would anyone with any sense want to though? As we’ve seen in other posts the overall cost of ownership of a Diesel is already higher than an EV now. And that’s without all the extra charges on the way for driving them in town centres.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby TrimTheKing » 16 Feb 2021, 18:03

Woodster wrote:
TrimTheKing wrote:
One of the challenges with electric uptake will be, IMO, that unless the government(s) mandate that all oil based fuel cars are scrapped then people will continue to run them until they die.


The Government currently plan to ban ICE cars from our roads in 2050 but as the ban on the sales of new ICE cars has been brought forward first five years earlier and then ten who knows. People won’t be able to “run them until they die” as you say because they’ll be priced off the road. If the rich did want to continue then yes in theory they could, until the ban. Would anyone with any sense want to though? As we’ve seen in other posts the overall cost of ownership of a Diesel is already higher than an EV now. And that’s without all the extra charges on the way for driving them in town centres.


I fully understand all that, I meant unless the Government decide to scrap them soon, and by running them until they die I don't think I'm making an overly bold statement. How many 30+ year old cars do you see on the roads now? I KNOW there are a good number, but it isn't a majority is it, so they will be 'run until they die' between now and the ban. Simply my view, but I am not up with the additional costs/charges you mention so you may well be right that they get priced off the roads.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby RogerS » 16 Feb 2021, 18:05

Woodster wrote:.... As we’ve seen in other posts the overall cost of ownership of a Diesel is already higher than an EV now. ..


Maybe Woodster but as a lot of us have already said many, many times. The upfront cost is simply too expensive for the majority of people. When are you getting yours ?
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Woodster » 16 Feb 2021, 18:16

My cars only got 11,000 miles on the clock so not for a while, it’s still too new! I am looking forward to getting one though as many of the new EV’s are compact SUV’s, so a similar size to my Mitsubishi. The only slight bother is that I might have to switch energy supplier to get cheap overnight charging. Not a huge deal, just don’t want a stupid meter! :lol:
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby spb » 16 Feb 2021, 18:21

flying haggis wrote:why should the government help to pay for charging points?? they havent paid for filling stations to be built

Same reason they help, or have in the past helped, to pay for people to upgrade boilers, improve home insulation, install solar panels, and any number of other schemes. They're under an obligation to reduce the country's CO2 emissions to an extent that requires action from a significant proportion of the population, so they're spending money to incentivise that action.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Trevanion » 16 Feb 2021, 19:48

flying haggis wrote:"" if you do drive 400 miles without a break then you are breaking the law however you do it regarding time driving in one continuous block or by speed""

so how come truck drivers are allowed, and do , to drive for 4 and a half hours without a break

care to explain! and who said anything about driving for 400 miles without a break except you


Hold on... Take it easy now... There's no need to get into heated arguments here! This isn't the other place where it's actively encouraged.

So a lorry can travel an absolute maximum of 60mph legally on the motorway, at this speed, you will cover about 270 miles in four and a half hours.

For a car driver to cover 400 miles at the maximum legal speed of 70mph on the motorway they would have to drive for five and three-quarters of an hour.

While I'm not sure there's a law that covers non-commercial road users maximum time behind the wheel, but I feel like complete rubbish at the two-hour (140 miles @ 70mph) mark and desperate for a break. A good portion of EVs are capable of a hundred and fifty-mile range without much issue. I don't think it's too unreasonable to stop every so often to stretch the legs and fill up the battery, it's all well and good having a 400+ mile capacity of a diesel tank but realistically you should be stopping for a break at some point during your journey anyway.

I drive a diesel, but I can see there's a bunch of upsides to running an EV every day, especially when I rarely (read never) venture out of my fifteen-mile bubble anyway which I imagine is the case for 95% of people in Britain. Will my next car be an EV? No clue, but I would consider it.
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby flying haggis » 16 Feb 2021, 20:20

I never said I would drive for 400+ miles in one go but range was mentioned which I alluded to but I regularly did 4 and a half hour stints behind the wheel whilst a truck driver. max speed 90k or 56 mph by the way. others on hear may not like driving for more than a couple of hours so feel the need to stop for a break. I dont and can happily drive for much longer which i was on about. I would hate to have to drive an electric car and always have to worry about where the next (working) charger might be. pure electric might be ok in town but for real life use a hybrid is a much more sensible proposition. and the current price of new electric cars is out of reach for most people. I have never bought a new car as I prefer to let someone else take all the depreciation but the cost of new batteries at 5 or 7 years will also put off people buying secondhand EVs i can see the use for electric vehicles but not the fact that we will have to change to satisfy the green brigade. when the biggest polluters ie china and india do the same them perhaps it might be a good thing but little old britain changing wont do much
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby 9fingers » 16 Feb 2021, 20:35

Todate my car buying model has been to buy at 1-2 years old ex lease cars and sell between 15 and 20 years old when reliabilty is in the bottom section of the bath tub curve.
I'm 6 years into my current car an Octy 3 so would normally be next buying in say 10 years or so when the ban might be inforce.
Mind you I'll be 77 then so possibly buying my last car and could splash out on my first ever new car?
I've always run medium to large estates since my first 4 wheeler morris 1000 traveller and about the only similar EV on the market now seems to be an MG5 estate at £25k - way more than I've ever spent on a car.

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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Trevanion » 16 Feb 2021, 20:40

flying haggis wrote:max speed 90k or 56 mph by the way.


In Britain, HGVs are restricted to 60mph, on the continent, it is 90km/56mph.

flying haggis wrote:I would hate to have to drive an electric car and always have to worry about where the next (working) charger might be


In your boot? You can still plug into anywhere with power (that's willing) you like, it just won't be cheap nor quick. You can't say the same for an ICE car, if you run out of fuel twenty miles from the nearest fuel station you're dead out of luck, at least there's usually a house within every square mile of road that you're driving on with power facilities.

flying haggis wrote:pure electric might be ok in town but for real life use a hybrid is a much more sensible proposition.


Hybrids are actually the worst of both worlds, you've got the heavy batteries weighing down the engine and you've got the heavy engine weighing down the batteries. Be one or the other.

flying haggis wrote:and the current price of new electric cars is out of reach for most people. I have never bought a new car as I prefer to let someone else take all the depreciation but the cost of new batteries at 5 or 7 years will also put off people buying secondhand EVs


I can't really argue with that, but the price will only ever get lower the more people buy EVs. Even now there are some lower-end EVs like the Nissan Leaf that is only a little more expensive to pick up second-hand compared to an ICE vehicle of the same age.

flying haggis wrote:when the biggest polluters ie china and india do the same them perhaps it might be a good thing but little old britain changing wont do much


I hate this attitude of "Why should we bother because X does this and that and we're better than them...", if you don't lead an example to the rest of the world, will anything ever get done about it? Also, don't forget the USA too, they're twice as bad as India for pollution.

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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby Woodster » 16 Feb 2021, 20:49

The Highway Code says you should take a break of at least 15 minutes every 2 hours. As others have said I’m more than ready to take a break by then. All my cars have had a “range” of three or four hundred miles but I’ve never ever driven that far without stopping so why would I ever mention it to anyone?

The cost of EV’s is expected to reach parity with ICE in three or four years. Three years later many of them will be on the second hand market.

We have never been able to dictate what other countries do but at least we can stop polluting our own environment in the UK. Local pollution produced by Diesel and Petrol cars is damaging public health right now, including drivers. It’s been long known that those that work with or around Diesel vehicles have a reduced lifespan.

No one in Government is offering you a choice. ICE vehicles will be banned from our roads sooner or later.

This all started as a hopeful thread looking to the future, a cleaner future for everyone. Enough people have died already from poor air quality.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... dmark-case
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby flying haggis » 16 Feb 2021, 20:59

Trevanion wrote:
flying haggis wrote:max speed 90k or 56 mph by the way.


In Britain, HGVs are restricted to 60mph, on the continent, it is 90km/56mph.

wrong. all hgvs in britian and the eu are limited to 56 mph

flying haggis wrote:I would hate to have to drive an electric car and always have to worry about where the next (working) charger might be


In your boot? You can still plug into anywhere with power (that's willing) you like, it just won't be cheap nor quick. You can't say the same for an ICE car, if you run out of fuel twenty miles from the nearest fuel station you're dead out of luck, at least there's usually a house within every square mile of road that you're driving on with power facilities.

in the countryside or the highlands of scotland i dont think so

flying haggis wrote:pure electric might be ok in town but for real life use a hybrid is a much more sensible proposition.


Hybrids are actually the worst of both worlds, you've got the heavy batteries weighing down the engine and you've got the heavy engine weighing down the batteries. Be one or the other.

i will go for sticking with a nice reliable diesel then

flying haggis wrote:and the current price of new electric cars is out of reach for most people. I have never bought a new car as I prefer to let someone else take all the depreciation but the cost of new batteries at 5 or 7 years will also put off people buying secondhand EVs


I can't really argue with that, but the price will only ever get lower the more people buy EVs. Even now there are some lower-end EVs like the Nissan Leaf that is only a little more expensive to pick up second-hand compared to an ICE vehicle of the same age.

who wants a nissan leaf (even new?)

flying haggis wrote:when the biggest polluters ie china and india do the same them perhaps it might be a good thing but little old britain changing wont do much


I hate this attitude of "Why should we bother because X does this and that and we're better than them...", if you don't lead an example to the rest of the world, will anything ever get done about it? Also, don't forget the USA too, they're twice as bad as India for pollution.

It's best to keep an open mind!


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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby RogerM » 16 Feb 2021, 21:03

9fingers wrote:Todate my car buying model has been to buy at 1-2 years old ex lease cars and sell between 15 and 20 years old when reliabilty is in the bottom section of the bath tub curve.
I'm 6 years into my current car an Octy 3 so would normally be next buying in say 10 years or so when the ban might be inforce.
Mind you I'll be 77 then so possibly buying my last car and could splash out on my first ever new car?
I've always run medium to large estates since my first 4 wheeler morris 1000 traveller and about the only similar EV on the market now seems to be an MG5 estate at £25k - way more than I've ever spent on a car.

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It's funny how things turn out. I replaced an Octavia 2.0TDi Hatch at 12 years old with a one year old Octavia Estate 2.0Tdi, and it's the best car I've ever had. As it's a 2016 model I will probably keep it for another 5 or 6 years minimum and by then EVs will have moved on a bit. With many already having a range of 250 miles and an 80% recharge in 20 mins, this is no longer an issue for us - the furthest we want to go normally is 170 miles to daughters home - when we are allowed. If anyone had told me 30 years ago that we would be serial Skoda owners in retirement I would have thought that I'd blown it big time. SWMBO runs a Fabia 1.2 110 hatch and that's a brilliant little car too, and not due for replacement for another 5 or 6 years either.

I think we need to get away from the idea that we need "filling stations". Remember that we can all start long journies from home with a full charge, and that every municipal carpark, hotel, cafe, garden centre or DIY shed, or pub carpark, will have charging points. There is no storage of hazardous materials or need for bulk deliveries. Stop for a coffee and a pee, and you can do an 80% recharge as a matter of routine in 20 mins. However, like many here, I'm not yet ready to sell both our ICE cars to fund 50% of the cost of one new EV. However, I suspect that there will be a lot of leased vehicles going out in the next few years, and normally they will be traded in after 3 years, so there could be a lot of 3 year old SH EVs hitting the market which will reduce the acquisition costs.

In the meantime, why is there only 5% VAT on coal, but 20% on solar panels?
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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby 9fingers » 16 Feb 2021, 21:43

RogerM wrote:
In the meantime, why is there only 5% VAT on coal, but 20% on solar panels?



Strange? my Solar pv system installed 2009 was only 5% vat as was my air con (because it is reversible) installed about 4 years ago. Maybe the rules have changed?

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Re: 5 minute recharge

Postby droogs » 16 Feb 2021, 23:02

flying haggis wrote: I would hate to have to drive an electric car and always have to worry about where the next (working) charger might be. pure electric might be ok in town but for real life use a hybrid is a much more sensible proposition.
An outdated trope by at least 5 years. There are nearly8380 fuel stations in the UK with an average of 8 pumps and 9300 charging stations in the UK With 12 or more sockets and in an emergency there are 700 million plug sockets.



flying haggis wrote: the cost of new batteries at 5 or 7 years will also put off people buying secondhand EVs i can see the use for electric vehicles but not the fact that we will have to change to satisfy the green brigade
On average cars sold between 2008 and 2012 have over 85% of their initial capacity. You are changing not for the green brigade but to give your grand children a chance, personally I don't care as I never will.


flying haggis wrote: when the biggest polluters ie china and india do the same them perhaps it might be a good thing but little old britain changing wont do much
Shenzhen city population 12.5 million has 16000 ev buses and 22000 ev taxis and they changed them out from diesels all on the same day, imagine that. Most other Chinese cities are following close behind. China builds more renewable power generation a month than we do in a year. India is fast approaching the same.

I would suggest you start getting up to date info rather than spouting debunked smokescreens and lies put out by oil and gas
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