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I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby AJB Temple » 21 Jan 2021, 12:41

Hello Mark.

You very much have my sympathies and I agree with Mike, look after your mental health first and foremost. Having had a dreadful past 12 months myself, I know the merits of this advice and was slow to wake up to it personally.

To practical matters: I have the T shirt on being flooded*. With global warming this will happen again, so make this next fix permanent. Have a look at your pumping arrangements and whether the water has somewhere to go. If your pumps are discharging to local authority drains, when they get overwhelmed, your pumps do nothing except circulate the flow. So make sure you are discharging to somewhere suitable – perhaps the roadway if you are on a slope.

When we had our cellar flood (see below) it had been used as a commercial wine cellar and already had a sump pump. However, when the NHBC appointed engineers did the remedial work they said the sump was far too small and that this is a common mistake. The sump needed -plenty of capacity and they did calculations to ensure that the flow rate of the pump was unlikely to be overwhelmed by incoming water. We ended up with a much bigger pump, plus backup, and greatly enlarged pipework.

At our present house, which is near a small river and with surrounding land quite flat, and with a high water table, we have flood defences which include sumps, and pumping to a ditch some way from the house. When I landscaped the garden I built a (large) pond that is capable of taking a good few cubic metres of water and is surrounded by high clay banks. Obviously if the power goes down as well we have a problem (as would you) so a small petrol generator on standby may be wise.

I also bought a couple of large tanks that have been buried underground, which we use to harvest rainwater. Howeverm they also form part of our flood defences as I pump them out before winter storm season starts. However, this is only about a thousand gallons of capacity. (I should add that we are not on mains drainage).

In a cellar, when you come to redo it, as others have said, use a solid floor. I would lay this over a hollow tanking membrane draining to the sump or sumps. Stone or polished concrete. Don’t use MDF or wood skirtings. You can get wall finishes (often applied over hollow tanking wall surfaces) that resist flood damage. Relocate all sockets to high level – including the power supplies for the pumps.

I hope you get on top of it all. Best wishes, Adrian

*Bought a house when I was 38 that had a very large cellar under a 3 bay garage. The house was on a hilltop, but the cellar flooded due to pressure of ground water – we had springs. This needed a big sump and full tanking. NHBC paid as the builder had gone bust.

Second one was a barn conversion where the developer / surveyor failed to notice that ground level on one side was too high. Flooded entire building and wrecked a huge solid oak expanse of floor. We were out for several months for remedial work, including full tanking of ground floor (which was way OTT). Developer paid.

Now we live close to the river Medway and have flood defences.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby clogs » 21 Jan 2021, 13:02

I'm so sorry for u....

been there done that early on in life....

after that always bought a house on a hill......

if u cant move, large sump, solid floor, tiled, and tanked walls.....
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Nelsun » 21 Jan 2021, 13:03

Sincerest sympathies. I can only imagine the gamut of feelings you'll be going through. As others have said - look after yourself first. If that means getting stuck in clearing out the damage then go for it. Here comes the "but"... but make sure you're not sleep deprived and one clock-up away from a fit of rage. I know that's all-to-easy for someone else to say - but the last thing you need is an injury to top things off.

As to the skirtings... if it's MDF and glued on I'd be expecting it to snap as it'll need some force to separate it from the wall. I'd be assuming it to go straight in the bin, not be salvageable and attack it accordingly. A pair of flat backed pry bars (the wider the better to protect the wall behind it) should work. If you can remove (after knifing along your pristine caulking) a section large enough to fit a pry bar in horizontally you'll be able to lever against the non visible part of the wall and pry enough away to carefully use the other bar to work in from the top to stab & gently lever away at the glue from the side and / or top... and work your way along. Depending on the bond between wall and MDF you may be left with lumps of MDF sticking out from the wall.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Woodbloke » 21 Jan 2021, 13:15

clogs wrote:
after that always bought a house on a hill......


The golden rule than was drummed into me by my dad. Never buy a house near a river or on a flood plane but always on the top of or side of a hill. I've passed the same advice onto my daughter who's looking round in the Carlisle area...some parts of which is prone to acute flooding - Rob
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby novocaine » 21 Jan 2021, 13:24

as I said above, if Marks place is where I think it is, he is well up a hill and the flooding is related to crap drainage. no help to Mark but I'll refer you to my posts on Bobs a bit cold post.

to put it in to context, the road from Marks house to the nearest water course is one that I use for hill training. :D
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Malc2098 » 21 Jan 2021, 13:36

Sorry to hear that, Mark.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby RogerS » 21 Jan 2021, 14:52

Woodbloke wrote:
clogs wrote:
after that always bought a house on a hill......


....round in the Carlisle area...some parts of which is prone to acute flooding - Rob


As it is now. :(

The builder who renovated our house in 1978 and three owners back, apart from never using a spirit level, put in some new rainwater drainage. Rain from one side of the roof goes into an inspection chamber and from there down a pipe to take it all away. Only the muppet used perforated pipe! The rainwater water seeps out, through the surrounding soil and thence pours through cracks in the cellar walls. We've run plastic drainage channel round the perimeter thence to the original (and still working) Georgian drain.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby the bear » 21 Jan 2021, 15:53

[quote]Mark, I would suggest getting a dehumidifier running as quickly as possible. I would expect them to be in demand at the moment so getting in early with your local hire shop may be a good move./quote]

I'd seriously consider getting the experts in to dry it out for you, either through insurance or direct if worried about premiums. (its probably not as expensive as you think, the putting right is the expensive bit of a flood insurance claim in my experience) You will get a certificate at the end guaranteeing its dry. Better than doing it yourself, thinking its dry, then in 9 months time finding mould spots on your new skirting or a musty smell.

The guys that dried me out also told me that dehumidifiers had a limited role in drying a building out. Ventilation and lots of Sahara blowers were what they used and one single humidifier in the central hallway (I live in what is technically a chalet bungalow).

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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby RogerM » 21 Jan 2021, 18:44

Mike G wrote:Oh no. So sorry to hear this Mark, that's a nightmare.

Today is a day for assessing priorities. Priority number one, I reckon, should be your own health. In your shoes, I hope I would focus on fixing myself, not fixing the house. Yet another programme last night on TV showed the strong link between physical activity and mental health, so why not grab the relevant kit and go for a good long walk, run, cycle (I'd say swim, but, you know.........), and make that the start of a regular routine. Your family need you at your best right now. They need you far more than they need a cinema room, so shut the door on that and tackle it when you can.


:text-+1: That's a real bummer! :cry: Good advice from Mike.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Chris101 » 21 Jan 2021, 22:02

My greatest sympathies Mark. I can't add anything remotely useful other than the best wishes of an internet forumite but I live between the River Lee at one end of my road and and the River Lea Navigation at the other. I'm out there every day checking levels with my fingers crossed. We've lived here nigh on 10 years and all the rivers are by far the highest I've seen them. Luckily they cleared all the channels, and sluices etc about 2 years ago locally but if it goes it's going to really go. I've cut some ply panels ready to fit just in case for what good that will do.
My heart goes out to you after just finishing the basement too. Modern times just keep on giving don't they? I think (without being an internet maniac) these are early signs of repetitive weather patterns that aren't getting any better any time soon. The seasons definitely seem to be 'slipping'.

Best wishes for you and your family. Try and keep positive.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Nico Adie » 21 Jan 2021, 22:20

You have my sympathies. We had a leaking roof in our old house that took 3 attempts to fix, it was incredibly demoralising, not to mention expensive and stressful. Certainly ate into my guitar fund! Now that’s over and we’re in the new place we joke about the drip bucket, and in time you’ll be able to laugh and joke about your current situation.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Jan 2021, 00:56

Hi all

Many thanks to each and every one of you for your kind words and advice.

I went this morning to pick up a new (second) spare pump and hose the a mate came round and we got to it (suitably PPE’d up) to moving all the gym equipment up into the kids’ playroom and everything else into the currently vacant kitchen leaving only the large sofas.

Between us we popped off the skirtings with only a single casualty, lifted all the flooring and labelled each board on the rear with row/position (so 3rd row from the end, 2nd board laid would be 3B) so that I know that from highest row backwards what order the boards go in.

They’ve been stacked in order in the kitchen with only a few casualties, no more than a single pack, that had got damp and expanded at an edge or two.

Cleared down half the room of insulation and put it outside to dry in the sun and breeze (little different from 13 hours previous!) then used the Vax to remove about 80 litres of water. Placed some 4x2 battens down between the UFH pipes and sheets of OSB on top, on which the sofas now reside.

Once the sofas were down the ‘dry’ end we cracked on with getting the flooring and insulation out from the other end.

Within 6 hours we had the room cleared, excess water removed, insulation breeze dried and stacked on the pipes to dry out internally and heating cranked up and fans blowing. It is tanked inside with Sika render which being what it is, a tanking slurry, doesn’t really get wet and dries very quickly.

Here’s a few pics of current status.

Image

Image

I did take your advice Mike, genuinely, if I hadn’t done this it would be eating away at me but my morale has gone from the floor to, well, a lot higher, because of how far we got.

I did take breaks to help the kids with schooling and to cook tea with my daughter after we’d finished. It will take a few days to properly dry out so tomorrow will be spent doing a few jobs around the house and workshop then weekend will be all about the kids and wife.

Thanks again everyone and I’ll keep you appraised of the rebuild process.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby AJB Temple » 22 Jan 2021, 01:57

Well done. Good progress there.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Andyp » 22 Jan 2021, 07:49

Only just seen quite how much rain your neck of the woods has had. You got away lightly.

Glad you are feeling better

Is that a heart shaped sculpture or carving on the wall?
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby NickM » 22 Jan 2021, 08:59

Well done. It’s good to hear you sounding upbeat. I really feel for you and everyone else affected by floods.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Mike G » 22 Jan 2021, 09:06

Great progress, Mark. Well done. You will need more than a few days to properly dry out, though. Don't be in any rush with this phase, as it will come back to bit you if you do.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby novocaine » 22 Jan 2021, 09:12

fantastic, and in the mean time you can all go for a run outside.......................

never mind.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby RogerM » 22 Jan 2021, 09:14

Glad you seem to have your mojo back Mark. Drying out will take some time at the moment, and surfaces that feel dry will soon feel wet again if covered over prematurely, so give it time and some ventilation. Any chance of getting some dehumidifiers down there? It's all money if course.

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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Jan 2021, 09:27

Andyp wrote:Only just seen quite how much rain your neck of the woods has had. You got away lightly.

Glad you are feeling better

Is that a heart shaped sculpture or carving on the wall?


Thanks Andy

It’s a heart made out of lots of small pieces of driftwood.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Jan 2021, 09:28

Mike G wrote:Great progress, Mark. Well done. You will need more than a few days to properly dry out, though. Don't be in any rush with this phase, as it will come back to bit you if you do.


Yep will leave it as long as necessary.

Thankfully the plaster board stops a few inches above slab level and the insulation goes below it so no plasterboard wet.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Jan 2021, 09:29

RogerM wrote:Glad you seem to have your mojo back Mark. Drying out will take some time at the moment, and surfaces that feel dry will soon feel wet again if covered over prematurely, so give it time and some ventilation. Any chance of getting some dehumidifiers down there? It's all money if course.

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Yep will leave it as long as necessary mate. I’ve got a dehumidifier of my own and a few friends have them so I’ll get scrounging.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Nico Adie » 22 Jan 2021, 11:55

Fantastic, that must feel like a huge weight has been lifted from your shoulders!
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Jan 2021, 12:02

Great. Well done!
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby Alasdair » 22 Jan 2021, 15:23

Really sorry to hear about the flooding, I'd echo what others have said and dont be in a rush to reinstate as the drying will take longer than you think. Day to day I work with a social housing landlord and have had a lot of experiencing with flooding, if you can get them dessicant dehumidifiers are a better option and a meter that will measure moisture content within the slab and not just on the surface. Flood has to be the worst thing to deal with and like everyone else has said look after you and the family first. When it comes to putting itt back together I could spare a few days if any help is needed (obviously lockdown restrictions allowing) you're only 3 or 4 hours away. Take care and good luck.
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Re: I could not hate water (or life) any more right now!

Postby TrimTheKing » 22 Jan 2021, 16:20

Thanks Alasdair

I've got three dehumidifiers donated that are down there now and picking up another one in a bit. They're only domestic ones but every little will help I guess, and trying to avoid paying out to hire an industrial one if I can just to keep costs down.

Thanks for the offer but that's a long way to come to help, and I've got a couple of friends here who have said the same so once dry we'll be back down in no time.

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