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Modern words, I must be getting old.

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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Phil Pascoe » 13 Jun 2021, 08:46

RogerS wrote: Certainly, a quick look at various online dictionaries shows decimated in the context of killing a lot of people. Wonder which is the definitive source ? OED? Chambers ?



Dictionaries record common usage not necessarily correct usage.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 13 Jun 2021, 09:12

I can't follow Steve"s excellent sendup of neologisms, I haven't his talent, but 'I would draw yer attention Ladies an' Gents' to one Lewis Carroll, he of portmanteau words. Or, the malapropisms(!!) of Oscar Wilde...

There is a gaping chasm.of intent (and intellect) between the mongrel "newspeak" of texting or the casual laziness of most Americans, and accurate and appropriate phrasing. I get absolutely frumious at times with this cerebral atrophication.

I taught many future medics(!!) and scientists, with a pedantic mantra of "precision, precision, context, precision" to answer exam questions and I abhor the "evolution of a dynamic language" trite nonsense used by many to excuse(???) their failure to synthesise a sentense properly.

In the armed forces, abreviations speed up communications, in stressful circumstances. Likewise, they accelerate civilian SMS message delivery- if, like moi - you have chippolatas for fingers and 'henpeck'with a single digit. There is NO excuse whatsoever for employing same as a substitute for expressive, illustrative and cogent communication.

Rant over.

As I hinted above, properly crafted words from authors like the two mentioned, do creep into daily usage and are enriching thus. Bodging neologisms and indolent obfuscation lead only to ambiguity, or worse, misunderstanding.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby RogerS » 13 Jun 2021, 09:20

Phil Pascoe wrote:
RogerS wrote: Certainly, a quick look at various online dictionaries shows decimated in the context of killing a lot of people. Wonder which is the definitive source ? OED? Chambers ?



Dictionaries record common usage not necessarily correct usage.


So that poses the question. In the UK, who determines correct usage ?
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Woodbloke » 13 Jun 2021, 09:22

Steve Maskery wrote:....an attempt to get the word into the OED.
S

As a slight ‘aside’ but relevant to the thread, I recently finished an excellent book by Simon Winchester on how the OED was created, beginning in in the middle of the 19century and finishing some seven decades later in the 1920’s. The first few volumes were composed in a tin shed (now demolished) somewhere in the grounds of Mill Hill public school, but the most incredible thing is that much of the input was created by an American Civil War doctor (declared insane after a murdering a brewery labourer in London with his Colt service revolver) who was a long term inhabitant of Broadmoor Psychiatric Hospital in Berkshire
All of his books are quite excellent and this one is no exception. We also saw the film on Amazon Prime which was also worth viewing - Rob
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby AJB Temple » 13 Jun 2021, 09:38

I used to be in the caring about language camp. Now my tent is pitched in the couldn't care less field. Reason is language, whether spoken or written has but a single purpose: communication. If that is achieved, then the purpose is met.

We have to adapt to many things in life. Ageing for instance. Embrace change with enthusiasm as there is no purpose looking back to how things were done "when I were a they".
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby RogerS » 13 Jun 2021, 09:41

AJB Temple wrote:I used to be in the caring about language camp. Now my tent is pitched in the couldn't care less field. Reason is language, whether spoken or written has but a single purpose: communication. If that is achieved, then the purpose is met.

We have to adapt to many things in life. Ageing for instance. Embrace change with enthusiasm as there is no purpose looking back to how things were done "when I were a they".


n whch cs yll b ll n fvr f wrtng lk ths ?
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Steve Maskery » 13 Jun 2021, 09:57

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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby AJB Temple » 13 Jun 2021, 10:58

No Roger. I communicate optimally using more letters. But I'm less inclined to be worrying about typos and other trivia. If teenagers communicate effectively by texting abbreviations, should I care that they are saving finger wear?

Language usage has always been a differentiator. The educated use it to suggest superiority and some young people 'abuse' it (as far as the majority in this thread are concerned) to suggest rebellion. Twas ever so. Thus Spake Zarathustra.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby fiveeyes » 13 Jun 2021, 13:33

Luddite's
change is the universal 'language' of all life
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Andy Kev. » 13 Jun 2021, 15:51

RogerS wrote:"Thank you for reaching out to us"

If I did that, sunshine, then I must have bloody long arms :evil:

That is the one that annoys me the most at the moment. It is usually used instead of the perfectly serviceable “contacting”.

The other one that drives me up the wall - and there are guilty parties on here: shame on you! - is the use of “share” when what is meant is “tell”, “show” or “explain”.

I teach English for a living these days and I’ve come to the view that fashion in language is, in general terms, like fashion in anything else: it is for the lazy, the inadequate and the weak of character.

Other than that, I’m the most tolerant bloke on the planet.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 13 Jun 2021, 16:04

Hear, hear, Andy Kev!!
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby RogerS » 13 Jun 2021, 18:10

fiveeyes wrote:Luddite's
change is the universal 'language' of all life


But not necessarily for the better !
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Woodbloke » 14 Jun 2021, 07:09

Andy Kev. wrote:That is the one that annoys me the most at the moment. It is usually used instead of the perfectly serviceable “contacting”.

The other one that drives me up the wall - and there are guilty parties on here: shame on you! - is the use of “share” when what is meant is “tell”, “show” or “explain”.

I teach English for a living these days and I’ve come to the view that fashion in language is, in general terms, like fashion in anything else: it is for the lazy, the inadequate and the weak of character.

Other than that, I’m the most tolerant bloke on the planet.


The first time I saw it was the other day when SWIMBO received an email from English Heritage where somebody was ‘reaching out’ to her. I was almost wretching out :lol: - Rob
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby RogerS » 14 Jun 2021, 08:33

Curated is another over-used word.

"This music has been carefully curated for you". Pretentious. What's wrong with 'chosen'?
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Tiresias » 14 Jun 2021, 14:56

Andyp wrote:When did normalcy replace normality?

Is it just me?


Solely because I was intrigued:

I have a copy of the Shorter OED (you know, the two volume one that only takes up 7 inches of shelf space rather than the OED’s 4 feet). It was published in 1933.

This lists both normalcy and normality as having the same meaning. It does add to normalcy ‘(orig. U.S.)’. But note that American English words that had not been adopted into English simply have ‘(U.S.)’.

So, normalcy was a recognised English word at least as early as 1933, and probably earlier given the length of time it took to revise the OED at that point.

Mind you, I prefer the form normality. I think someone once told me that normalcy had a specific meaning in connection with statistics, possibly medical statistics, but that might just be because it would be used in US scientific publications.

It is possible that some of the members of this forum are older than me and may have a different perspective on time, but, on this evidence, I don’t think normalcy counts as a modern word in English.

So, Andyp, no, your age has nothing to do with it.

Now there, wasn’t that pointless?
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby RogerS » 14 Jun 2021, 15:09

North. As in the weather is bad up North...meaning Manchester or Liverpool. Neither are in the North.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Lurker » 14 Jun 2021, 15:31

Gentlemen, I give you the very worst recent American import

Bathroom
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Andyp » 14 Jun 2021, 15:31

Try getting a black cab in south london to cross the river, “Nah mate I don't go norf”
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby John Brown » 14 Jun 2021, 16:33

Lurker wrote:Gentlemen, I give you the very worst recent American import

Bathroom

Really.? Why?
What would you suggest instead? Toilet? Lavatory? Both euphemisms, originally related to washing or similar activities.
Water closet? Who says that!
Loo?
The simple truth is that we do not have a polite, non euphemistic word for that room. Bathroom is no better or worse than the others.
Restroom, however, that's a euphemism too far...

There's a lot of baloney talked about what are perceived as Americanisms. Over on the other place someone was moaning about ise versus ize. Ize was the preferred British English a few decades back. We've changed, they haven't.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Lurker » 14 Jun 2021, 16:57

I have to agree restroom is far the worst.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby AJB Temple » 14 Jun 2021, 20:02

Lots of men read in the little boys room. It's akin to having a rest. Restroom is perfect. Why worry what it's called as long as you can find it?

Lavatories are a proper bone of contention at times. When I had a London office (recently) on each floor (of three that we had) there was a common vestibule (in which coats were hung and a massive array of shoes stored) and then unisex lavatories. This was a developer decision.

The ladies / women were unhappy that they had to share with men. The men were unhappy to have sanitary disposal facilities there. We ended up separating them. The shoes were interesting. Virtually all women came to work in flat shoes or trainers. They would then change into high heels if they wanted and invariably for meetings. Back into flats for home. So the shoe collection inevitably grew. Women tended to use the word "loo" whereas men tended to say toilet. I was brought up to say lavatory.

We had showers too, each with a built in changing area, but it was not realistic to make them separate, despite pleading from the female staff. We also had a changing room with lockers and I unwisely agreed that the girls could have an internal lock so no men could walk in on them. I lived to regret that, but that's another story.
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby fiveeyes » 14 Jun 2021, 20:32

Lurker wrote:Gentlemen, I give you the very worst recent American import

Bathroom

This statement is daft.
Would you put the 'bath',in the kitchen?
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby Phil Pascoe » 14 Jun 2021, 21:23

RogerS wrote:North. As in the weather is bad up North...meaning Manchester or Liverpool. Neither are in the North.


It always amuses me when it is said that Swindon is in the South West. Anywhere north of Bodmin is the North. :lol:
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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby 9fingers » 14 Jun 2021, 21:30

Phil Pascoe wrote:
RogerS wrote:North. As in the weather is bad up North...meaning Manchester or Liverpool. Neither are in the North.


It always amuses me when it is said that Swindon is in the South West. Anywhere north of Bodmin is the North. :lol:


Same here with southampton being in the south east. With the typical EW width of southern England there really ought to be a central southern region.

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Re: Modern words, I must be getting old.

Postby RogerS » 14 Jun 2021, 21:34

9fingers wrote:
Phil Pascoe wrote:
RogerS wrote:North. As in the weather is bad up North...meaning Manchester or Liverpool. Neither are in the North.


It always amuses me when it is said that Swindon is in the South West. Anywhere north of Bodmin is the North. :lol:


Same here with southampton being in the south east. With the typical EW width of southern England there really ought to be a central southern region.

Bob


I thought that was Bognor ?
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