It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 11:09

SteveG's workshop

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

SteveG's workshop

Postby stevegruk » 17 Jan 2021, 18:45

Hello all,
This is my first post of my own. I apologies in advance as it is very heavy with questions!
I've been following much of the great builds and general information here. I'm in the process of planning a 'lean to' extension to the side of my existing double garage to be used as a workshop for woodwork and light metal work (both as a hobby).
Here’s a view of what I have in mind. It’s a lean to cavity wall insulated building attached to the existing brick double garage with an outer leaf of matching brick.

SteveG  Workshop.jpg
(354.23 KiB)





The workshop is the side of the garage facing the house. The width (door side) is approx. 4metre, the depth approx. 5.6m, the height approx. 2.5m to fit under the existing roof. The floor area will be just less than 20sqm. Noe if this project past the front line of the main house. The door I’m thinking of is an insulated asymmetric opening side hinged garage door so I have a ‘normal’ side door and the option to of a wider opening.

I have some questions for the experts here:-

I have no plans to convert it to living accommodation. Am I right in assuming it doesn’t need planning approval or to build to building regs?

Having said that I want it to be reasonably well insulated.

How would I best treat – insulate and finish - the existing brick wall which will become enclosed by the new construction?

I have the room to increase the 4m width to retain 20sqm floor space so I could have a brick facing 100mm cavity partial filed with Kingspan Kooltherm K106 Cavity Board or similar, 100mm lightweight block – fair faced and painted. I’ve had a reasonable quote for this and the builder doesn’t think going timber frame with brick outer would save much, but may allow a thinner overall wall with similar U value. What are your views on this?

I intend to have a concrete raft foundation with insulation over raft.
Should I go for an elaborate raft as in Blackswanwood’s superb and lovely looking build viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4917&hilit=brick
Or something simpler?

I’d consider electric underfloor background heating or IR heating panels but I think the ceiling height might be too low for the latter.

Flooring – if using electric underfloor background heating. Ideas?

Sorry for all he questiuon, but i'd appewciate some feedback.
stevegruk
Seedling
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 30 Apr 2020, 21:47
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby 9fingers » 17 Jan 2021, 18:59

My experience of PDR rules dates from 2005 so could be incorrect today. Then you could not do PDR work if less than 5 m from the house or 20m from the road boundary.
So firstly some idea of where the dwelling is and the roadway is would help those with more up to date knowledge that I to advise.
Bottom line is likely to need a sketch shoved under the nose of your local planners to be sure. Planners are a fickle lot!
If it is connected to an existing structure then you could well need building control approval too. A gap between the two now might make all the difference even if it became joined at a later date if you understand me?

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10037
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby RogerS » 17 Jan 2021, 19:17

I think your heating suggestions are OTT, TBH. If it's well-insulated then something far simpler like oil-filled radiators would do the job - much cheaper as well.


Welcome to the forum, BTW.
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.
User avatar
RogerS
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 13283
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Nearly finished. OK OK...call me Pinocchio.
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby sunnybob » 17 Jan 2021, 20:48

Electric underfloor is hugely expensive. It also takes a very long while to heat the room.
I know two people who have it in their homes, neither of them are rich enough to turn it on. In a seldom used workshop.... :shock: :shock: :shock:
If its only a workshop, greenhouse electric tube heaters fitted low to a couple of walls will keep it bearable for minimal outlay and running costs.
my wood projects are here https://pbase.com/sunnybob
User avatar
sunnybob
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: 17 Aug 2020, 10:59
Location: Cyprus
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby Lons » 17 Jan 2021, 21:21

If you absolutely have to garage a car then I'd build it and use as a garage and commandeer the existing garage to use as a workshop. Modern cars are perfectly happy living in the driveway, if that's what you have of course.
I have a degree in faffing about (It must be true, my wife says so)
Lons
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1687
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:48
Location: Northumberland
Name: Bob

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby Mike G » 18 Jan 2021, 09:06

Lots of questions. Let's look at them in random order.

Electric underfloor heating is not the answer at all. It is suitable for a gentle warming of tiles in a bathroom, but it isn't suitable for space heating a room of any volume. It would be extremely expensive in running costs, and not effective. If you are using electric heating then oil filled radiators or fan heaters would get you an awful lot warmer an awful lot quicker for an awful lot less money.

You will come under the aegis of Building Control because this will make a building of a total of over 30 square metres. If you built a new detached workshop of the size you propose, it wouldn't need BR approval, but because it is extending an existing building they'll look at the total floor area of the combined building.

Foundations, therefore, will need to comply. This will either mean a traditional trench-fill strip foundation with a ground-bearing oversite slab, or you'll need to come up with a structurally engineered alternative and provide the calculations. Structural engineers aren't cheap.

Your choice as to whether to build in brick or timber. Timber has the advantage that you get significantly more floor space, albeit you would have a more complex plinth as this will need to be built to BR standards (ie cavity & insulation, continuous DPM/ DPC), and this plinth will take some floor space or increase the footprint. Timber framing has the other advantage of being within the scope of a reasonable DIYer. BTW, fibreglass insulation fully filling a cavity is exactly as effective as PIR boards half filling the cavity, and is a whole lot cheaper and easier to get right. There is no point in timber frame and brick, but timber frame and a cladding would provide the advantages I've described, and would be cheaper than brick and block.

Does this need planning permission? Not sure, but it's highly likely. It depends on the location. If this is in front of the line of the front of your house then definitely yes. If not, it is an extension rather than an outbuilding, and it isn't within the Permitted Development rights of extensions onto the rear or side of a dwelling. Check with your local council (and don't listen to anyone who tells you to go ahead without checking first). If it were a separate building, to the rear of your house, and occupied under half the original land area around your house, then you wouldn't need planning permission. All in all, you'd find an awful lot less red tape if you could move this workshop away from the garage and build it as a stand-alone building in your back garden.

Just a quick note on your design. It's nice to have natural light in a workshop, but that wall of windows is a wall which you can't use for storage, and storage in a small workshop is at a premium. You've already lost a wall with that garage door (do you really need that?). Personally, I'd lose two of them, and just keep the one over the bench.

As you ponder your options, have a read of my "Build a Shed Mike's Way" thread (a sticky in this sub-forum).
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby Mike G » 18 Jan 2021, 09:46

Sorry, I forgot to say....

You should never run an extension flush with the line of an existing building. The face of the workshop should be set back half a brick (or more) from the line of the face of the garage.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby clogs » 18 Jan 2021, 10:42

how about moving the workshop away from the garage then at some point in the future.....
fill it in....
and use the gap as a store for long lumps of wood.....
Shame as ur design looks v/smart.....

were doing something similar......build a barn with an extra concrete a
pad to one side......
then after a few years fill it in with steel wall panels for secure tractor storage.....
everyone does it here......

planning is a nightmare where ever u live.....

we wanted a new barn on our farm in France.....the mayor said we could have it at a cost of a €4,000
bung.....after talking with local farmers, they said build the frame out of wood...thenit's classed as temp.....all within the rules.....
The mayor could only fume.....hahaha....
clogs
Sapling
 
Posts: 258
Joined: 02 Oct 2020, 07:18
Location: Crete, Greece
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby stevegruk » 18 Jan 2021, 12:24

Thanks to all who have replied, very much appreciate the feedback.

I will re-read your "Build a Shed Mike's Way" Mike.

PDR-BR: This is obviously my prime issue – I have no intention of making the headlines “Council force man forced to demolish new workshop” I’ll produce a plan view showing road and other boundaries and seek the advice of the local planning officer. I was really hoping to keep it attached to the existing garage and made of matching brick for appearance sake. There is no opening into the existing garage at all. The existing garage is behind the front line of the house. One of builders did say the extension should be set back ½ brick Mike. Is that to hide any brick matching issues?

Location and Timber –vs- Brick and Block: I’d prefer it the match if attached to the garage and I’d prefer it in that position as it would then occupy an otherwise unused part of the garden. I could build a timber frame myself and I’d enjoy doing so. However, if I’m busy (I’m a self-employed electronics design consultant) I may as well pay a builder to do it. I’m not keen on having to maintain external finish very couple of years either. Maybe brick face with insulated timber frame?

Underfloor heating: Since I’ve never had it before I’ll take the advice of those that have experience. I just assumed I’d need around 2KW in such a well-insulated space no matter how it were delivered. 15sqm 2KW heater wire or matting isn’t expensive - £260 to £300 . I guess there are losses into the ground through the insulation though. Sounds like IR glow tubes or fan heaters high on the wall is the to go. The walls will have benches on them with storage under so an oil filled rad would be clutter.

Big door: Good point Mike. I have a small metal and a woodwork lathe on a very substantial bench which has large castors and bottle jacks so the wheel can be extended to move it or retracted so its sits of 4” sq section legs. I’ll put that in front of the wide section of door which will usually be shut anyway, I can therefore move it to use the big door if needed. I want a big door so I can get my motorcycles in for maintenance and other big objects.

Windows: Another good point Mike. I’ll reconsider them. I’d put the main work benches along the under the widow wall. I’ll have good LED lighting in there anyway.

Cars live outside. The existing garage currently is full of stuff including all my late fathers machine tools, woodworking tool, my motorcycles, families push bikes, gardening stuff, wife’s clutter etc. It’s not that dry either due to the poor sealing of up and over doors. The plan is to build a workshop, get the tools and benches in there, sort the garage out, and fit new sealed sectional doors to the garage.

Once again many thanks. I’ll keep you updated.
stevegruk
Seedling
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 30 Apr 2020, 21:47
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby Mike G » 18 Jan 2021, 16:05

stevegruk wrote:.....One of builders did say the extension should be set back ½ brick Mike. Is that to hide any brick matching issues?


Yes, and because it will crack unless there is a movement joint. Mainly, however, it is so that there isn't an ugly roof overhang/ junction issue, and to keep the two "lumps" of the building visually distinct. When you can't hide something, you make a feature of it...and you'll never hide this junction.

I’m not keen on having to maintain external finish very couple of years either. Maybe brick face with insulated timber frame?


There are of course maintenance-free alternatives to boards these days. No, if you want brick, then there is nothing to be gained by having a timber inner skin. Build it in block and it is the same team of brickies who will do the whole thing, rather than visiting twice to let the timber framers do their thing.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby stevegruk » 19 Jan 2021, 00:34

Thanks again Mike. I appreciate the benefit of your expertise. I'm creating a drawing to pass before the planning officer.
stevegruk
Seedling
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 30 Apr 2020, 21:47
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby stevegruk » 20 Jan 2021, 16:38

Well, it turns out that the council has suspended it's consultation service for little things such as my workshop due to Covid backlog. They are concentrating on getting through existing applications and major developments.

I’ve read through the planning guidance in “Permitted development rights for householders Technical Guidance Sept 2019”. I cannot find any reason to suggest my proposal as per site plan below and previous 3D CAD model will NOT be exempt proving I keep the roof height to 2.5m – due to proximity to boundary.
Does anyone here know if my view is correct?

5 College Court planned Hobby Room.jpg
(129.51 KiB)
stevegruk
Seedling
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 30 Apr 2020, 21:47
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby Mike G » 21 Jan 2021, 09:07

Is the principle elevation of your house the one at right angles to the one facing the garage (ie if the top of the drawing is north, then the north west elevation)? Are you in a National Park, AONB, or World Heritage site? Are you Listed or within the curtilage of a Listed Building? (Be careful, I've been caught out by that one......it doesn't mean where the existing fences are).Is your house a converted business premises?

If your answers are Yes, No, No, in that order, then I would print out a copy of your drawing and send it to the local council, telling them that you consider your proposal to be within your PDRs and that unless you hear from them to the contrary you'll be starting work shortly. Obviously, you must build within the various height and boundary limits.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9833
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: SteveG's workshop

Postby stevegruk » 21 Jan 2021, 09:36

Hi Mike,

Thanks that is much appreciated and a great idea.

I did read the “Permitted development rights for householders Technical Guidance Sept 2019” very carefully. The answer are Yes, no, no. The plan is north orientated and the principal elevation faces NW. The development is 20 years old built on greenfield land.

I’m assuming that because the eaves nearest the house of the existing garage are on the bounder with number 3 (In fact it seems the back of my garage is the boundary) then I must keep the roof of my workshop (hobby room) less than 2.5m high? That’s fine anyway as I’d planned a flat or slightly sloping roof starting just under the eaves of the existing garage – at 2.4m.
stevegruk
Seedling
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 30 Apr 2020, 21:47
Name:


Return to Workshop Builds

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests