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External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

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External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 01 Dec 2019, 14:57

I need another external backup drive and had thought about one of the SSD ones. But then I read somewhere that SSD was not recommended for backup purposes.

I know that hard drives inside PVR's have to be of a certain type as they are often working all the time and so perhaps there is some characteristic of SSD's that make them unsuitable for backup drives ?

Any thoughts, chaps ?
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Andyp » 01 Dec 2019, 16:37

This is not going to answer your question but back in 2009 i bought a 500GB LaCie d2 Quadra Hard for just over 100 GBP. At the risk of tempting fate it has not missed a beat and performed two total restores.
Happy to recomend.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Malc2098 » 01 Dec 2019, 16:53

I'm using a My Cloud Home with no problems so far, apart from if it's plugged into your router, and your router is near where you sit for reading, watching TV or listening to music or radio, then you can hear the HDD going all the time. Apart from that.....touch wood.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Robert » 01 Dec 2019, 17:59

The only thing making SSDs unsuitable for backups is the price per TB of storage space.

I just bought two 8TB drives for backing up my backup server. All our computers back up to the server so if one goes wrong it can be restored.
In theory the backup server could fail and as long as nothing else goes wrong with the 'clients' nothing is lost.

That's not good enough for me so I backup the backup server to USB drive. That then goes to live at my daughters place. After I think it is time to do it again the other new drive gets used for backup and gets swapped for the other off site.

So long story short it doesn't matter too much what you back up to but do it twice and keep one somewhere safe.

Oh and if you are doing a full computer backup check/test your restore process will work with new hardware.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 01 Dec 2019, 18:51

Robert wrote:.....
That's not good enough for me so I backup the backup server to USB drive. That then goes to live at my daughters place. After I think it is time to do it again the other new drive gets used for backup and gets swapped for the other off site.


Spot on...only way to do it.
Robert wrote:.
Oh and if you are doing a full computer backup check/test your restore process will work with new hardware.


Absolutely ! Well, I don't have any new hardware but it is a bootable copy and so I will boot up from that from time to time.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Woodster » 02 Dec 2019, 16:45

So, SSD or Hard Drive? Cost is a factor but aren’t SSD’s much faster?
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 02 Dec 2019, 17:51

Woodster wrote:So, SSD or Hard Drive? Cost is a factor but aren’t SSD’s much faster?


They are but if you're backing up, say, overnight and you have time to do the backup then it's not a key factor IMO. And most good backup programs (like SuperDuper) will only backup those files that have changed (after the initial backup)
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby 9fingers » 02 Dec 2019, 20:22

I might be talking through my ar$e here but if you are wanting to make bootable backups, don''t you need to make image files and in which case incremental backup software is not likely to be suitable?

My thinking is that if you use mechanical drives, they will need to be kept powered up all the time to reduce the risk of mechanical failures. If you will make your back up and then leave the drive unpowered until the next time you need it, then SSD will be best for reliability.

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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Andyp » 02 Dec 2019, 20:35

Does bootable men the same as complete system restore?

I use Carbon copy cloner, it does incremental backups and I have used it twice to rebuild new iMacs.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 02 Dec 2019, 21:55

9fingers wrote:I might be talking through my ar$e here but if you are wanting to make bootable backups, don''t you need to make image files and in which case incremental backup software is not likely to be suitable?

....

Maybe in PC world ? All I know is that I can boot from my backup disc.

As Andy says CCC is also another good backup program and I used that in our last house to make a second backup to a hard disk in the workshop that was located away from the house.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 02 Dec 2019, 21:57

Andyp wrote:Does bootable men the same as complete system restore?


No, it doesn't. If I boot up from my backup then that is where the OS and root is located. Nothing has changed on my main machine.

But if I do a complete restore then I'm copying the backup over to my main machine.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerM » 04 Dec 2019, 15:38

Interesting thread. At the moment I am just occasionally backing up all my files, but it is a long tedious job so doesn't get done as often as it should. I believe there is some free software that automatically just updates any changes and additions automatically which would be far preferable. Any recommendations as to what software to use? I'm particularly interested in backing up my photos.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Robert » 04 Dec 2019, 16:14

RogerM wrote:Interesting thread. At the moment I am just occasionally backing up all my files, but it is a long tedious job so doesn't get done as often as it should. I believe there is some free software that automatically just updates any changes and additions automatically which would be far preferable. Any recommendations as to what software to use? I'm particularly interested in backing up my photos.


I only know windows software for this so others will have to chip in if it is mac..

I use Veeam Agent for backup which is free and has a host of options.
It can auto start when a backup drive is connected or run to a schedule and backup to a server or nas etc.
The software creates a boot disc on CD or DVD or USB key for the computer in case of failure. That disk can start the computer and gives you the restore options. I've tested the bare metal restore a few times when upgrading the main hard drive rather than using clone software. 100% so far.
You can also just browse through one of the backups and find that one file you accidentally deleted and restore it just using the Veeam program.

It does a full backup first then incremental ones after that. You can choose any date when it comes to restore so it is also a good insurance against ransomware that encrypts your data (assuming it is not plugged it when attacked).

Not tried it with alternating plug in drives but there is bound to be a way to do it.

The only slight negative is that Veeam can take a while to merge an incremental backup into the existing backups. Just means the backup drive is going to have a 10 minute work out after each incremental. The software does tell you what it is doing though.

Again for windows if you just want to copy one folder synctoy https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=15155from MS is very simple to use and can update a lot of files quite fast. Not automatic though unless you do something clever with task scheduler.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 04 Dec 2019, 17:53

RogerM wrote:Interesting thread. At the moment I am just occasionally backing up all my files, but it is a long tedious job so doesn't get done as often as it should. I believe there is some free software that automatically just updates any changes and additions automatically which would be far preferable. Any recommendations as to what software to use? I'm particularly interested in backing up my photos.


Roger... Mac or PC ?
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerM » 04 Dec 2019, 17:58

RogerS wrote:
RogerM wrote:Interesting thread. At the moment I am just occasionally backing up all my files, but it is a long tedious job so doesn't get done as often as it should. I believe there is some free software that automatically just updates any changes and additions automatically which would be far preferable. Any recommendations as to what software to use? I'm particularly interested in backing up my photos.


Roger... Mac or PC ?


PC running Win10. I'm not looking for anything overly sophisticated. A simple backup to an external HDD with subsequent backups just adding any changes is all I am after. Robert's idea of using SyncToy would seem to have some merit.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 05 Dec 2019, 11:48

One very useful feature of the Mac that has got me out of a hole more than once is Time Machine.

Think of the situation where you maybe opened a master document, edited it intending to save it under a different name but in a senior moment just hit Save....which now overwrote the master document with your edited version. True ...you could restore from last nights backup but if you've been busy creating documents and photos all day before your 'senior' moment then you lose all of that.

With Time Machine you simply go back in time to yesterday, locate the master document and then ask it to be restored. No idea if PCs have anything similar.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Woodster » 05 Dec 2019, 16:38

I’ve just been looking to get another back up HDD. One of the existing back up drives works very well and I couldn’t help noticing it’s a 7200 rpm drive. Sadly the speed of a drive is seemingly unimportant these days as the only manufacturer that I could see that mentions the speed is LaCie, but only on their top end 8TB plus drives. If anyone knows of any 7200 bus powered drives in one or two TB please let me know. Sadly the one I’ve got is no longer available or I would have bought a couple.

Agreed on Time Machine, it’s very useful at times. I suspect Microsoft have something similar it just requires you to press four or five keys all at one at opposite ends of the keyboard to access it ... :lol:
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 05 Dec 2019, 19:15

I'm not sure that speed is really that important for backup (once the initial backup has been done, natch). My backup is timed for 12.30am, it's throttled down to USB2 but even so, it's done in 30 minutes or so.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Woodster » 06 Dec 2019, 11:00

I wanted to do a second backup on another drive the other day and it took several hours. During the backup the machine was quite slow so I gave up trying to do other stuff on it. In this case, and I’ve done it several times in the past, a faster drive would have been very helpful. When fitting internal drives I’ve always fitted 7200 rpm models in the past. Not sure why manufacturers don’t want to tell us the speed of the drives they’re trying to sell us?
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 06 Dec 2019, 11:56

Woodster wrote:I wanted to do a second backup on another drive the other day and it took several hours. During the backup the machine was quite slow so I gave up trying to do other stuff on it. In this case, and I’ve done it several times in the past, a faster drive would have been very helpful. When fitting internal drives I’ve always fitted 7200 rpm models in the past. Not sure why manufacturers don’t want to tell us the speed of the drives they’re trying to sell us?



Curious to know how much data you were backing up. I've got about 240GB to do a full backup. Just kicked one off and it's taken 25 minutes for 40GB so the whole disk should be done in about 90 minutes or so. And that is over a slow USB2 interface.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby 9fingers » 06 Dec 2019, 12:01

RogerS wrote:
Woodster wrote:I wanted to do a second backup on another drive the other day and it took several hours. During the backup the machine was quite slow so I gave up trying to do other stuff on it. In this case, and I’ve done it several times in the past, a faster drive would have been very helpful. When fitting internal drives I’ve always fitted 7200 rpm models in the past. Not sure why manufacturers don’t want to tell us the speed of the drives they’re trying to sell us?



Curious to know how much data you were backing up. I've got about 240GB to do a full backup. Just kicked one off and it's taken 25 minutes for 40GB so the whole disk should be done in about 90 minutes or so. And that is over a slow USB2 interface.



Slightly dodgy arithmetic methinks?

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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Andyp » 06 Dec 2019, 12:22

Roger, doesn't your Mac come with thunderbolt? Helluva lot faster than USB2. The lacie drives are available with thunderbolt.
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby TrimTheKing » 06 Dec 2019, 15:00

9fingers wrote:Slightly dodgy arithmetic methinks?

Bob


Slightly!!! Shocking Roger, admonish yourself suitably please, IMMEDIATELY!
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby RogerS » 06 Dec 2019, 15:38

9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:
Woodster wrote:I wanted to do a second backup on another drive the other day and it took several hours. During the backup the machine was quite slow so I gave up trying to do other stuff on it. In this case, and I’ve done it several times in the past, a faster drive would have been very helpful. When fitting internal drives I’ve always fitted 7200 rpm models in the past. Not sure why manufacturers don’t want to tell us the speed of the drives they’re trying to sell us?



Curious to know how much data you were backing up. I've got about 240GB to do a full backup. Just kicked one off and it's taken 25 minutes for 40GB so the whole disk should be done in about 90 minutes or so. And that is over a slow USB2 interface.



Slightly dodgy arithmetic methinks?

Bob


3.5 hours. Average copy speed 19 MB/s.

Andy...when my Mac was built in 2009 Thunderbolt wasn't invented :lol:
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Re: External backup drive - SSD or hard drive ?

Postby Woodster » 06 Dec 2019, 18:04

It’s an iMac about 8 years old and I think the 500Gb drive is getting pretty full. Probably getting a new iMac next year so I want to back up everything manually so we can start afresh.
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