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HMRC and mobile phones

Steve Maskery

Steve Maskery

Old Oak
Joined
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Location
87290 Laplagne, France
Ye gods.
My partner needs to sort out her National Insurance stuff as a matter of some urgency. She has a Government Gateway ID. She has a UK phone number. We live in France. In the middle of nowhere. No 2G signal, let alone a 4G signal.
So this is what happens when we try to log in.
Username ID. We enter it.
Password. We enter it.

"You have been sent a One Time Code which expires in 15 mins. Enter OTC"

As I say, no signal. UK SIMS do not work over WiFi here. French SIMs yes, but UK ones, no.

She used to be able to get a signal if we went a couple of hundred yards round the corner, but, and I don't know why, that no longer works.

So we can't log in to change the phone number to her French one. There does not appear to be any other way of receiving a OTC (email would be good). What on earth are we supposed to do?

We've even tried:
Driving into town with her laptop and phone.
Connecting her laptop to my Hotspot.
But still no joy.

I just don't know what to do next.

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

S
 
Steve, feel your pain! We used to have similar problems in Spain, at the time we got around it by organising a VOIP phone with a uk number.
Also found some mobile phones pick up better mobile signal than others……
 
Are you sure that HMRC can’t send the code on an email instead of a mobile?

I feel your pain, my missus is french so no UK passport, no uk photo id so she has been unable to set up government gateway id etc to access DWP site. She will have a full UK pension when she retires as worked long enough in uk and paid extra contributions after we moved here but we cannot create online access. God knows what will happen when she needs to claim her pension which is a few years away yet.
 
I’d check that your phone’s setting for Wi-Fi calling is enabled eg by going to Settings -> Apps -> Phone -> Wi-Fi Calling if on iPhone (or just search for wi-fi calling) and making sure the switch is on when the appropriate SIM is in the phone.

Also download the HMRC app and use it to create “access codes” then you won’t be reliant on the phone signal. (You’ll need to get a text based OTP to log in and do this, but at least you should only need to do it once).
 
Windows said:
I’d check that your phone’s setting for Wi-Fi calling is enabled eg by going to Settings -> Apps -> Phone -> Wi-Fi Calling if on iPhone (or just search for wi-fi calling) and making sure the switch is on when the appropriate SIM is in the phone.

Also download the HMRC app and use it to create “access codes” then you won’t be reliant on the phone signal. (You’ll need to get a text based OTP to log in and do this, but at least you should only need to do it once).
Click to expand...
I had to do something similar for my Charles Schwab investment account. The website is accessible from nearly anywhere, but the mandatory two-factor authentication required either a U.S. phone number to receive the SMS text with the one-time code or the overseas customer had to call Schwab for the OTC. Now, Schwab has partnered with Symantec VIP for 2FA anywhere using the Symantec app on the phone.

Setting up the 2FA required calling Schwab for the OTC so I could access my account. Then I configured the security settings to use the Symantec app. As long as I have a good data signal or WiFi for my phone, it works perfectly.
 
Mike. that's the problem...
BSW, Thank you, we'll try that tomorrow.
Andy, I'm sure that must be possible, but you need to log in and change the setting to do that. Catch 22.
JVC. Thank you, I'll look into that.

It's as if they don't really want you to contact them in order to reclaim money. Surely not...

Thank you all.
S
 
AndyP said:
Are you sure that HMRC can’t send the code on an email instead of a mobile?

I feel your pain, my missus is french so no UK passport, no uk photo id so she has been unable to set up government gateway id etc to access DWP site. She will have a full UK pension when she retires as worked long enough in uk and paid extra contributions after we moved here but we cannot create online access. God knows what will happen when she needs to claim her pension which is a few years away yet.
Click to expand...
I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of sites that are considerate enough to let you use email to validate. I hate OTPs
 
You may find, gentlemen, that you can use an authenticator app (about £10 per annum) to do this across all devices without recourse to a mobile to receive codes etc. It works well once you get past the slightly confusing set up.

Microsoft do a free version which works less well than the paid one I use on my Macs. I think Google do one too. The paid for authenticators tend to have more convenience oriented features though as well as the high levels of security.

The only reason I know this is that NHS England now require (annoyingly really) an authenticator for log in. I use this NHS system, which links with my GP, for full access to my medical records, GP and other appointments and repeat prescriptions. It gives my full prescription history, exact date of prescriotion and who prescribed it and when it was sent to the pharmacy (who make a lot of mistakes where we are). It works very well as I can authenticate directly on my computer without needing my phone.
 
AJB Temple said:
You may find, gentlemen, that you can use an authenticator app (about £10 per annum) to do this across all devices without recourse to a mobile to receive codes etc. It works well once you get past the slightly confusing set up.

Microsoft do a free version which works less well than the paid one I use on my Macs. I think Google do one too. The paid for authenticators tend to have more convenience oriented features though as well as the high levels of security.

The only reason I know this is that NHS England now require (annoyingly really) an authenticator for log in. I use this NHS system, which links with my GP, for full access to my medical records, GP and other appointments and repeat prescriptions. It gives my full prescription history, exact date of prescriotion and who prescribed it and when it was sent to the pharmacy (who make a lot of mistakes where we are). It works very well as I can authenticate directly on my computer without needing my phone.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the NHS app, Adrian, as I use mine both on mobile and Mac without any authenticator needed. And Patientaccess offers the authenticator to me but I always click 'Remind me next time'.
 
Patient Access. This week it forced the authenticator on me there was no reminder option. It does not provide the authenticator itself. You have to download one from the provider of your choice. I thought it was a bit of a cheek actually. I picked Authenticator because it had a lot of positive reviews in the app store.
 
Yes - I know, but you should only have to do that once as that is part of the set up.
 
You can opt to have it sent to an app or have a text, and a laptop can be set up to mirror phone texts. But if you are in a complete signal desert, then one is a but stuffed I agree :censored:
 
Well some progress!

I decided to ring HMRC in Newcastle. There are stories of 70 minute wait times, then getting cut off. Not fun for anyone, let alone if you are paying international phone call rates from a mobile.
So I bought a contract with Skype. £7.99 a month, I have set a reminder to cancel before the renewal.
So we called HMRC.
Sheila waited, I went into the workshop and had a lot more fun than she did. Apparently (I wasn't there) the guy told her to ring the Pensions Centre. 32 minutes wasted. I asked her why she wanted the Pensions Centre when what she actually wanted was to be able to login.

"Oh"

She had got confused between her Pension stuff and her Tax stuff.. I tried hard not to murder her.

So after I'd calmed down a bit, we rang the Tech line (yes there really is one).

"Recent waiting times have been less than 10 minutes". OK, not so bad, I thought...

We listened to a 10 second riff repeated for over 20 minutes. Then a real Human Being answered. I guess he was African, but his English was perfect, though very heavily accented. But he spoke slowly and calmly so between us we understood each other. and didn't get any more hot under the collar than we aalready were.

He was excellent.

He accessed her account, cancelled the texty stuff and made sure we could access the account with an Authorisation app. Brilliant. It took some knocking about, but when it was done, we were in. What a relief.

The next stage is to use it to get the info that we actually need.

So, for the search engines out there:

If you need to contact HMRC because you cannot receive a ONC or a OTP then this is what you need to do:
1. Be prepared to be patient.
2. Ring the Tech support line on +44 161 9308 445.
3. Be patient.
4. Hope to get someone who knows what they are doing and wants to be helpful. We were lucky (his previous colleagues did not fall nto that category).
5. Ask the advisor to cancel the existing phone number. (You will need to satisfy Security, of course).
6. Download and install an Authentication app. Microsoft do one, but there are several to choose from.
7. When you try to login, the system will ask you to scan a QR code That will then ask for an Authentication code, which your new app will supply. It may well change every 20 seconds, so be on the ball.
8. Kiss the person nearest to you, your bureaucratic nightmares are over.

Possibly.

S
 
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Steve. Well done. Glad the Authentication app and patience worked. Despite Rog's scepticism, once I got over the initial hurdles, it has worked well for me across various platforms - which is why I recommended it as a possible solution.
 
AJB Temple said:
Steve. Well done. Glad the Authentication app and patience worked. Despite Rog's scepticism, once I got over the initial hurdles, it has worked well for me across various platforms - which is why I recommended it as a possible solution.
Click to expand...
Not so much sceptical as puzzled why you were forced to accept the authenticator and yet I'm still happily using PatientAccess (although I prefer the NHSapp) with the OTP. I could understand them staggering the rollout if they supplied the authenticator (server loading) but they don't.:unsure:
 
RogerS said:
Not so much sceptical as puzzled why you were forced to accept the authenticator and yet I'm still happily using PatientAccess (although I prefer the NHSapp) with the OTP. I could understand them staggering the rollout if they supplied the authenticator (server loading) but they don't.:unsure:
Click to expand...
I can access all my medical history and order meds etc. via my patient access as well. I've never been asked or offered authentication. maybe it's just specific NHS practices doing that.
 
Maybe, perhaps it depends on the Trust or what ever they call them now. We are Tunbridge Wells / Sevenoaks / Maidstone. I used to be able to get into both NHS systems without extra authentication, but no more.
 
Well she has given up and written a letter. It's technology she understands. It's 10 days each way for post. The deadline for what she has to do is April 5th. It's not going to happen, is it? She has known about this for years and about the deadline for months. But now we are going to be thousands of pounds worse off, maybe tens of thosands, because she has left it until now.
Do I sound angry?
S
 
AJB Temple said:
Maybe, perhaps it depends on the Trust or what ever they call them now. We are Tunbridge Wells / Sevenoaks / Maidstone. I used to be able to get into both NHS systems without extra authentication, but no more.
Click to expand...
You've hit the nail on the head, Adrian. A quick Google states exactly that...authenticator needed for that trust.
 
Steve Maskery said:
Well she has given up and written a letter. It's technology she understands. It's 10 days each way for post. The deadline for what she has to do is April 5th. It's not going to happen, is it? She has known about this for years and about the deadline for months. But now we are going to be thousands of pounds worse off, maybe tens of thosands, because she has left it until now.
Do I sound angry?
S
Click to expand...
Colour me confused, one minute you've sorted out the technical blocker, next minute it's back to snail mail, what happened in between...
 
TrimTheKing said:
Colour me confused, one minute you've sorted out the technical blocker, next minute it's back to snail mail, what happened in between...
Click to expand...
I won't go into the details here, but there are two issues. One has been resolved (from a technical point of view, at least), the other has not.

There is a page on the HMRC site which says that we can deal with HMRC by email. It doesn't tell us how. It is a theatrical production of bovine colonic waste.
 
Ahhh fair enough mate, shame if it goes to poop. Just a thought if the other issue is technical too, and I didn't put it earlier, but if required a VPN with a UK egress point can help get around a lot of issues.
 
You shouldn’t need a VPN to access WH2 from France. I am typing this without one.
Using a VPN will likely slow down response times.
 
Well all I know is that when I use a VPN set to UK, TWH2 connects, and when I use the VPN set to France, or not connected at all, I get a "Can't Connect, check your Internet Connection, the site might be down", etc, etc. screen. Every time, it is repeatable. On is OK, Off equals locked out. Once I am in, I can change the VPN and not lose connection.
Other UK sites behave normally (BBC iPlayer locks me out, of course).
I don't know enough about these things to know why my experience could be different to yours.
S
 
Why are you using a VPN at all Steve for normal web access (as opposed to protected sites like HMRC)? I am in Den Hague (Neth) a lot and also Köln (Germany) for weeks on end, and connect to WH no probs without a VPN, pretty much instantly and it behaves as if I am in the UK.

BBC access control is easily bypassed with a VPN - in my case I used to use the one built into Brave browser which is $10 a month (ie too expensive for what you get) but switched to Nord ultimate, which was £4.99 when I subscribed and includes scam insurance and quite a lot of customisation. Works across 10 devices, ie more than we actually have. There is a basic version for a couple of quid a month.
 
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Well I don't use it all the time, but it is handy for things the BBC and Amazon Prime. I get different film offerings from Prime depending om whether they think I am in the UK or in France.
Some of my French sites won't let me even browse their site if they think I am in the UK (Orange.fr, Leroy Merlin (French B&Q)).
S
 
@Steve Maskery ..What you need is a mobile signal amplifying antenna ( technically illegal in France, but available from the big river in France ) stick the receiver part high up in one of your trees, run the co-ax from it into the house through a hole bored in a wooden window frame or similar. Voila, mobile signal in the house ( as long as you have mains power, as they need mains power at the house end, small box about as big as a cigarette packet, plugs into the mains, uses nearly no power at all to work, the bit that goes up high enough to get a signal, is quite discrete ). We used to have a very good mobile phone signal here at the house, then our maire and his planning councilor .. ( I have talked about them in the other place, in a thread about solar panels ) authorised two large metal clad buildings to be constructed right next to the phone mast about 400 metres from us. No more phone signal as the buildings are having a "ground plane" effect and the signal is being "shaped" away from us. Now we have to go into the garden and hold the phone high in the air, or walk to the end of our road and then a bit more to get a signal.

Two factor codes sent to the mobile phone by one of our two banks ( French banks use these all the time, mandatory, no way to get some of them not to ) are unreceivable, unless you walk to where there is a signal, then note the code and walk back before the 15 minutes is up. This as a rainy bit of France, and at the moment it is cold and wet.

But our ISP is free telecom, they are the only french telecoms operator who have an internet box that has a slot in femto cell*, so , as long as their box ( next to me as I type ) has power, we have 3G in the house :) .Our phones are 3G,4G and 5G. When the power goes out, so does our phone signal. Unfortunately they no longer make the femto cell slot in boxes, so when this one goes kaput, we'll have to get a signal amplifier. Mr le Maire does not want the phone company to add another 8 metres onto the mast / antenna, which if they did, would solve the problem. His planning councilor has convinced him that the higher mast ( already 25 metres tall ) would not be "in keeping" with the rest of the small industrial zone in which it lives.

Next municipale elections we may get a more sensible bunch in the mairie.

Yes we could use the phones via wi-fi , but wi-fi drains a phone battery faster than almost anything else you can do with a phone. But if the power to the ISP box goes off, the wi-fi doesn't work anyway.

I might have a solution to your "must be done by April" problem..I'll pm you about it tomorrow.
## Having just joined, my posts are pre modded, but maybe pms will get through tomorrow ##
 
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Well knock me down with a feather.
S bought 400 mins of Skype, and then another 400 mins when that ran out. Hours and hours on the phone and she was no further forward with this theatrical display of excrement.

So she wrote a letter. A proper, old-fashioned hand-written, paper letter, put it in an envelope and posted it.

Today she has received an email, as she requested,. A useful email, with good information, useful links and it looks like she might actually get somewhere now.

Furthermore, the DWP has said that if you ring and don't get answered, you can request a call-back, and that will be enough to trigger the process and that if you have done that it doesn't matter if the process is not completed by April 5th. There must be thousands and thousands of people in this situation.

There used to be 130-odd local tax offices in the UK and that number has been slashed to 13. I wonder if that "imprevement in efficiency" might have something to do with this debacle?
S
 
In fairness to DWP and HMRC, if this relates to topping up NI contributions, the deadline has been extended twice. The opportunity to go back to 2006 was originally due to end in 2023? Your situation being an expat may make dealing with it more complex but there has been quite a long lead in to get it sorted.
 
Blackswanwood said:
In fairness to DWP and HMRC, if this relates to topping up NI contributions, the deadline has been extended twice. The opportunity to go back to 2006 was originally due to end in 2023? Your situation being an expat may make dealing with it more complex but there has been quite a long lead in to get it sorted.
Click to expand...
It's not me you need to tell that to...
 
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Great news Steve, fingers crossed that it all works out for you . :)
 
Not for the first time I (we) have had success using the HMRC Online chat service. MrsP having worked in the UK for some years needed to top up her NICs for the years since she moved here.

Ask HMRC online - Ask HMRC - GOV.UK

www.tax.service.gov.uk www.tax.service.gov.uk
I just dive straight in with "I need to speak to an adviser", and was 2nd in queue and waited just 15 mins before we could live chat.
We cant get MrsP through the id checks for the online registration for a government gateway ID and to use the app as all her UK records are in her married name and the only accepted source of ID here is her French passport which of course as is typical here remains in her maiden name.
Anyway we are assured that she has met the April deadline even if the backlog with the International Payments Team might take until April 2026 to be processed.
Oh the joys of a post-Brexit life.
 
I filled in a form online about topping up my contributions. A couple of months later I got a response by letter from HMRC saying, among other things, that they had sent my details to DWP. Then nothing. A month or so ago I thought I had better check so contacted DWP. They say they have never received anything from HMRC. Doesn't fill me with confidence. I hope I am now in the system/queue, but who knows when they give out false information.
 
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