Erbauer Biscuit jointer

[AndyP]

For my V&A table build I will need to joint 4" wide oak boards, 1" thick, a job I have never done before. When I made my oak dining table top (2" thick) I just used dowels and points with acceptable success but that table also has some rather ugly bracing underneath.

I could do the same again but with increased accuracy using the joint genie that I bought years ago and have used with success a few times but not for edge jointing boards. https://joint-genie.com/shop2//index.ph ... ommon/home

Most of you guys rave about biscuits so maybe I should dip my toes but the green domino is way out of my budget.

How about this:-
https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-ebj8 ... 240v/341fx

Worth it or a fast route to frustration? It will never get a lot of use, but then again if it gives acceptable results there are all sorts of possibilities.

Me and the router, hand held or table, have never been best of mates. The biscuit jointer seems less likely to get out of control.

 

[Malc2098]

All of the different 18mm mdf boxes I've made, shoe boxes, toy boxes etc, I've used my Makita biscuit jointer.

I used it to join the larch planks for the lids of the toy boxes, which are similar to your table, and it worked for me.

 

[9fingers]

I don't know the erbauer machine. The make or break for a BJ is the rigidity of the sliding axis as play in that can move the biscuit vertically quite a lot.

As you seem to be a more regualrr UK visitor these days, would you like to borrow mine? I don't use it that much and I do have a domino to use if a need crops up whilst it is away.

Otherwise bring your ready prepped boards with you next time and use the BJ at mine?

Bob

 

[Alasdair]

I needed a biscuit jointer for a project recently and being tight and having had good results with other Erbauer tools splurged the £70 on their biscuit jointer. I have jointed 18mm MDF with great success and acuracy, the biscuits are a snug fit and the plates seem to be solid enough that they are not moving. One to use until it (or me) gives up the ghost.

 

[Robert]

I've joined boards with biscuits in the distant past. I used a cutter for the router to make the slots. just make a mark where the biscuit will be and machine a slot a bit over length to make sure the oval biscuit will fit into a slot made with a circular cutter. The cutter gets used for making grooves now instead of for biscuits.

I join boards with long loose tenons into long grooves now and that has worked out more accurate than biscuits. Just need to stop short of the ends if you don't want the tenon seen. Can't remember when I last used biscuits.

 

[Woodbloke]

For my V&A table build I will need to joint 4" wide oak boards, 1" thick, a job I have never done before.

Me and the router, hand held or table, have never been best of mates. The biscuit jointer seems less likely to get out of control.

That brand is pretty low budget and probably horribly inaccurate and will probably cause you no end of grief. I would use the router table which would make an easy job of the jointing. Square up all the boards to size and simply drop each on onto say a 6mm or 8mm cutter, using the fence as a guide and a couple of blocks to act as 'stops' or not if you want to join them with ply inserts, as Robert has done above. It's ridiculously easy and really very, very accurate.

I've just been doing some 5mm slots in the ends of 30mm wide material for a back panel using this method and it's far easier and more (or just as) accurate as a Domino machine - Rob

 

[Eric the Viking]

Just my twopence:

I believe the Erbauer is one of the better "budget" units, so using it will probably help.

I've tried a similar operation on pine, using a router table "biscuit" cutter (before I got my proper Makita BJ). I couldn't prevent the joint from springing apart later, but that's probably down to a number of issues: Only painting/finishing one side of the work, probably over-clamping (squeezing out too much glue) and the slop caused by offering the workpiece up to a table cutter. You also get slots that don't match the shape of shop-bought biscuits - also bad.

Since then I've had very pleasing results with the 'proper-job' Makita, and a big difference is snug slots which fit the biscuits much more closely (and I've learned about clamping!). For 1" thick boards you might even plant biscuits in pairs using a simple false fence to get the offset - be careful not to put any in where you will later make trimming cuts (don't ask why I know this!).

Yes I know purists will say you don't need biscuits or dowels (just a "rubbed" joint"), but I've found them a huge help with one-person glue-ups of awkward things. I'm not sure that they add strength to the joints of themselves, but since they really help with alignment, the effect is as if they did.

Robert (above) mentioned loose tenons in slots - you can do that with great accuracy with a biscuit joiner too, as it's only a handheld circular saw with a posh fence. On my unit you just pop-out the rubber grippy piece, then it will slide along, cutting a 4mm groove. If you want more slot width, just do two passes (again, a false fence instead of moving the metal one should eliminate positioning errors between the two halves of the joint). I did this vertically once, to let in more wood at the window-edge of an indoor window board - it took a few passes but I got it to behave like a rebate cutter, and it allowed me to make a neat repair, where no router could reach.

Dominoes, OTOH, are structural - obviously they will do what you need and more, but the machines are indeed hugely expensive now. I vaguely remember that the early patents for the Domino system (or parts of it) expire soon, possibly this year or as late as 2024, and there were pre-Covid rumors that various manufacturers are working on copy machines.

The strength of the system depends muchly on its accuracy, which in turn comes down to tool quality and thus cost. So the rumours might never become reality if Festool's competitors don't think they can make the necessary sales volumes, and/or they can't deliver the quality.

So a Domino might still be something to consider (especially if non-Festool ones are coming very soon) as they are more versatile than biscuits, but biscuits still have a use in my 'shop anyway.

E.

PS: Mine is the older model Makita (3901). I think it's better quality than the later mains model, which seems to have been cost-reduced. If the Erbauer disappoints, it might be worth looking for one secondhand (or one of the other premium brands such as Lamello and DeWalt both of which have a good reputation).

 

[9fingers]

I have the Bosch GFF22A BJ which I believe is a result of cooperation between Bosch and Makita and apart from motor body and colour scheme, looks identical.

Bob

 

[Cabinetman]

Erbauer, it depends, I have managed to bend the arbor on two circular saws, other tools have been good but at £250 it doesn’t seem to be particularly good value for money, I would do as recommended above with your router table or spindle if you have one. Ian

 

[AndyP]

thanks all.
nice to hear that Alasdair seems to echo so many of the reviews.
if truth me known I am a bit scared of the router. Things can and do go very badly wrong very quickly. Operator error no doubt but it does seem that there is less chance of a major operator error with a biscuit jointer.
Eric's very detailed response makes for interesting reading, thank you.

A rubbed joint for the table top maybe good enough but for the leg design I would like some extra strength. I think this might help explain why biscuits might be difficult to hide.

Those legs are 14 " wide and will require 4 x 4" boards and if I do not want the joint visible I think dowels might be a lot easier to hide.

I do wonder if a rubbed or dowel joint for the table top and dowels for the legs might be the way to go.

 

[AndyP]

As you seem to be a more regualr UK visitor these days, would you like to borrow mine? I don't use it that much and I do have a domino to use if a need crops up whilst it is away.
Bob

Bob that is very kind and much appreciated. All our post Covid journeys have been via the tunnel, far less risk of mixing with the unwashed. If my daughter gets her 2nd choice uni I may well be making quite a few trips past your way but not before the deadline date for this project.

It is not only keys that are cheaper in the UK, I will be picking up the PAR oak boards from my brother in a few weeks time.

 

[clogs]

I bought one of those years ago for just one big shop fitting job......
It's very well made...the adjustable frame / shoe is very stiff being made from cast ally.....
it's accurate easy to use and I have used it a lot.....
gave up using it with a vac cleaner.....Ijust use an airline to clean up the dross.....
I often just use it without securing the wooden plank down....just free hand......
would I buy another, YES if it's made just the same......
guess 'll never wear it out....

 

[droogs]

As you seem to be a more regualr UK visitor these days, would you like to borrow mine? I don't use it that much and I do have a domino to use if a need crops up whilst it is away.
Bob

Bob that is very kind and much appreciated. All our post Covid journeys have been via the tunnel, far less risk of mixing with the unwashed. If my daughter gets her 2nd choice uni I may well be making quite a few trips past your way but not before the deadline date for this project.

It is not only keys that are cheaper in the UK, I will be picking up the PAR oak boards from my brother in a few weeks time.

Really! surely there must be a local mill where can get good French oak at a good price. i thought every village/valley still had a mill

 

[AJB Temple]

Andy. When you pick up your boards you are more than welcome to swing by my house and use the planer and domino to joint up the boards. You don't need to glue them here - you can take everything back home and glue and clamp at your leisure.

If your BIL wants to give me his address or drop the boards in to me, I will run them through the PT and do the joints for you if you want. It is literally a 10 minute job to cut the mortice slots (all of them) with a domino.

A

 

[Alf]

No comment on the tool desires, but I honestly don't to see why you think you need to faff with biscuits, splines, dowels, or pizzas. These days I'd have thought the wood would fail way before the adhesive if your joint is halfway good enough to pass appearance requirements. If that makes me a purist, well, just join the queue for laughing because I got here first.

 

[Cabinetman]

Alf, good point, that got me thinking and I had another look at the design a bit further up the page and it seems there is an awful lot of waste to be cut away and it would perhaps (underlined) be better with four angled pieces of wood halving jointed together where they cross, it would make much more sense from a grain direction/strength point of view and from wasted wood. It would also help to mitigate the weakness of the feet/crossgrain. Ian

 

[AndyP]

Thanks Adrian,
Thanks for the offer. Although I have to equipment here to prepare rough sawn boards I have decided to follow Pinch’s example and buy PAR from British Hardwoods. They supplied the timber for the settle. Expensive probably but it will save me a lot of time, agro and opportunities for the CU fairy to make an appearance.

As for the joints Alf and Ian above make some good points.

Sitting here looking at my laminated pine board mock up reinforces Alf’s point.

I need to ponder :eusa-think:

 

[Eric the Viking]

No comment on the tool desires, but I honestly don't to see why you think you need to faff with biscuits, splines, dowels, or pizzas. These days I'd have thought the wood would fail way before the adhesive if your joint is halfway good enough to pass appearance requirements. If that makes me a purist, well, just join the queue for laughing because I got here first.

i wouldn't dare to laugh, and anyway you're not wrong. But biscuits are the opposite of 'faff' in this context. They make it easier for me to glue-up - after all you still need a couple of squared-up, very slightly concave surfaces (lengthwise) for a good edge-to-edge joint.

But I've had too many moments of, "Oh bother!* I have a lot of planing to do now to get that wavy joint edge to disappear." So getting as close as possible to a really neatly mated surface, by using biscuits to align it while I clamp it, works for ole' fumble-fingers here.

And when appropriate, I don't use biscuits, either. Example: "thickening" an offcut of Teak for a garden bench stretcher repair - lots of glue area, no precise alignment needed (coz of cutting the curve on the bandsaw after the glueing).

But when edge glueing boards to widen them, for me biscuits or dominoes make the job a lot easier.

There's one other handy use, which is to plant splines across picture frame mitres, at the back out of sight. You have to make your own biscuits, as the grain runs the wrong way on standard ones, but half a biscuit across the back is easily done and does add strength. Yes, I know, if it's glued properly in the first place, etc., but I can't carry all the necessary clamps for every task (frames are an occasional thing), so again, it means I can concentrate on getting the mitres to line up nicely square, etc., let the glue go off and then reinforce them.

Yes, any old spline would do, and a domino or dowel planted into the mitre faces would probably be better still, but I usually don't have room for a domino though, and, being thinner, biscuits can be sneaked-in where the wood is widest. I think professional framers sometimes use the 500 machine with 4mm dominoes, but I have the 700 (will never afford two of them!), and using a 4mm cutter with it is pushing the envelope somewhat. I might try though, just to see, as the geometry works (with the Seneca adapter). Plunge depth might need an auxiliary fence though, so already it's getting complicated.

E.
*Other expletives are available.

 

[AndyP]

I love this place (WH2) The depth of knowledge and experience shared willingly and so freely by so many is incredible.
On the other hand back in 1994 when I made my solid oak dining table with no workshop, no gear, and even less idea, I just got on with it. 27 years later it still looks good.

I am beginning to understand why ignorance is bliss.

To all the contributors on this thread and elsewhere please dont be offended. I like to learn how stuff should be done properly and I have enjoyed the process of learning new skills but before the internet I had far fewer options to consider and just got on with doing stuff far quicker.

 

[Alf]

Oh, I absolutely know what you mean, Andy. The more I know, the more I know how many ways it can go wrong. Just reaching that point with pen repair, and my rate of actually repairing pens has plummeted as a result.

Eric, you absolutely carry on if the biscuits work for you. Don't tell anyone, but somewhere in the ancient ruins that were once my workshop there's a Porter Cable biscuit jointer, and it Has Been Used. :eusa-shhh:

 

[9fingers]

Just a quick tip to potential biscuit users and maybe those returning to use them after a pause.
Make sure your biscuits are dry. Even slight swelling with moisture can make then very tight to fit and if you have to hammer them in, the edge gets burred and is even more difficult to handle.
I keep my immediate stock in sealed screwtop containers in the BJ carry case and longer term stock lives in the airing cupboard in a cardboard box with express permission of the domestic authority.

HTH
Bob

 

[Woodbloke]

Just a quick tip to potential biscuit users and maybe those returning to use them after a pause.
Make sure your biscuits are dry.

Bob

Yep, they need to be a dry as a dry thing. I keep mine in old sealed coffee jars in the 'shop and I chuck a small handfull of rice in the bottom. If you've ever read CS Forester's Hornblower story 'The Cargo of Rice' you'll know why :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If using a dozen or so biscuits at a time I pass them over a sheet of abrasive first to remove any high spots - it's irritating when one sticks half way through a complicated glue up.

 

[droogs]

as my workshop is right next to the North Sea in an old rope drying shed, it's nearly impossible to have things truly dry. For things like biscuits, ready made dowels and loose tenons I put them in oven at home at 110C for half an hour and then let them cool a bit inside the oven. They are then placed in groups of 50 into food vacuum seal bags from Lidl and run through the machine to seal them up for long term storage.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Humidity here atm is 96% - not much good for things like this.

 

[Pete Maddex]

I give my biscuits a good clamping in the vice before inserting them.

Pete