Shapton Ceramic Stones

[Woodbloke]

For many years I've been using the 'scary sharp' system of sharpening from WH and excellent though it is, the major disadvantage is that you need to change the films quite frequently to maintain efficiency...which I don't do

I've been looking at alternatives and have been considering the Shapton Ceramic stones which seem to be held in pretty high regard by many users, so can any members offer a comment on them; good, bad or indifferent?

I only ask because Niwaki stock them and they're just up the road from me in Shaftesbury, so I'm minded to have a have a look at a few 'in the flesh' but it would be nice to go along to Semley with with a few opinions from folk who use them.

Please don't turn this enquiry into a general sharpening bun fight; I'm interested specifically in the Shapton stones - Rob

 

[Lurker]

Off at a tangent, is this some brand name or what?

 

[Woodbloke]

Off at a tangent, is this some brand name or what?

Nope, not a brand name. See here: https://www.niwaki.com/shapton-glass-se ... /#P00226-2 - Rob

 

[johnward]

Rob Cosman uses them. You might get some useful tips from one of his videos

John

 

[AJB Temple]

I've used them and I actually bought Shapton Glass which I prefer.
Burrfection on you tube (down to earth knife guy) does a no nonsense review of shapton glass against cheaper stones.

I use mine for my array of Japanese knives (and also Naniwa). Very good, splash and go. Last a very long time. No need to dunk them, I just use a cheap mist spray bottle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge-rvSe0f6w

I've met him. He is not a producer of bull and debunks a lot of myths and marketing spin.

 

[Woodbloke]

I've used them and I actually bought Shapton Glass which I prefer.
Burrfection on you tube (down to earth knife guy) does a no nonsense review of shapton glass against cheaper stones.

I use mine for my array of Japanese knives (and also Naniwa). Very good, splash and go. Last a very long time. No need to dunk them, I just use a cheap mist spray bottle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge-rvSe0f6w

I've met him. He is not a producer of bull and debunks a lot of myths and marketing spin.

Just been over to Niwaki nr. Shaftesbury (30mins down the road) and muchly impressed with them and also a really good range of gardening kit/tools in the showroom - Rob

 

[Lurker]

Did you splash out on stones?

 

[Woodbloke]

Did you splash out on stones?

Nope, not yet. Lots to ponder about, 'specially after having watched the Cosman videos on UToob - Rob

 

[Philly]

Rob
I've only got a 1000 grit one, but I've had many years of use it of it and it looks like I'll get decades more. Cuts very quickly, very hardwearing and you only need to wet it when you use it (no soaking like waterstones). I've talked to regular users of them and it seems the diamond flattener they sell is key to the system, so keep that in mind if you dip your toes. But very impressed with them and if I didn't already have a bunch of stones would probably go for them big time.
Hope that helps,
Philly

 

[AJB Temple]

Niwaki are doing 15% off currently.

 

[Peter F.]

I have a set of three Shaptons (1000, 4000, 8000) and the diamond flattening stone (plus a holder). You can often find them cheaper at kitchen stores than woodworking stores. I love them.

I just splash a little water on them, and hone away. For flattening, I use a soft pencil and scribble on the stone, and then flatten until all the pencil marks are gone. Takes about 10 seconds. But you should flatten them pretty regularly (I do it every time I use them).

They give a wonderful smooth surface to the blade, and cut fairly quickly (you wouldn't want to use them to create a new bevel). After the 8000 stone, the cutting edge is like a mirror. It doesn't take much to get it to that state.

I particularly like how quick it all is. I set up the stones on some paper towels on the counter by the bathroom sink beside my shop-I-mean-garage. Having the sink right there is nice for washing the swarf off the stones, and our granite countertops make it easy to dial in the perfect angle for the bevel if you're using a guide. I've started doing a lot more honing freehand, and the Shapton stones are quite forgiving. I'm pleased with the edges I'm getting.

The stones are quite brittle - you don't want to drop them. They're also relatively easy to gouge with a sharp edge. But so far I'm on my first stones - they're almost 15 years old. I think they're great value for money. But do some research - you can find sets on sale at non-woodworking stores.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Shapton stones really do the business. However, like all water stones, they do require constant flattening. I found that a bit tiresome after a while and I now have only an 8,000 which is my final stone after using a diamond stone. That said, Shapton stones produce excellent results.

I could do without the former (although I'd rather not) but I really would not like to do without the latter. The only thing that I now have to remember is to get all traces of oil off blades before going to the Shapton 8,000.

 

[Richard]

I've been using ceramic stones for twenty years or more, but I don't remember the brand, so they might, or might not be Shapton. I have them in my workshop and keep them in water between uses. I have two stones, one described as coarse, maybe 800 - 1000 grit, and one described as ultrafine, so no real idea the grit on that one. I've never needed to flatten either one because they seem to remain remarkably flat, but that might just be the way I use them. For the most part I just use the coarse stone and go back to work, but if I want a more refined edge I move on to the ultrafine stone for a final hone prior to a bit of stropping. I like them because they're pretty quick at getting an edge and because the lubricant is water rather than oil this eliminates any chance of oil getting on to the wood and prevents my hands getting oily.

Outside the workshop and/or I'm working on site I use a combination oilstone primarily because the system takes up little space and is faff free, i.e., stone in a box, 3 in 1 oil, rag, whereas, as mentioned, I keep the ceramic stone wet in a pond, which is a faff to set up when I turn up on site or some other place where I have to haul my tools in and out every day. In this situation with my oilstone I just have to be a bit careful sometimes to prevent that oil getting to places it shouldn't be. Slainte.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I've never needed to flatten either one because they seem to remain remarkably flat, but that might just be the way I use them.

I decided to see if my Shaptons were staying flat by cross-hatching them with a pencil after use and then seeing how the pencil marks were removed while using a diamond stone to flatten them. It was no surprise to find more wear in the middle of the stones. That said, I suppose the actual depth of flattening might be negligible in terms of the effects it has on sharpening a blade.

Obviously the finer grade stones, being softer, were quick to flatten but I began to resent the amount of time I spent flattening the 1,000 and it was that which pushed me to switch to diamond stones.

I suppose it's horses for courses, really. There's no doubt that Shaptons are excellent sharpening stones. OTH if you find time spent flattening to be time wasted, that might be an argument against them.

 

[Woodbloke]

I watched the RC videos on Shapton stones and although good, they're a bit convoluted with just too much info. He also does all his sharpening freehand, which I don't so I wanted to find a clip with somebody using a honing guide/strop and more or less instantly found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SEb6HhW9g&t=25s which is very good; he even uses a Japanese style tool box to store his kit.

I subsequently orderd a pair of Shapton Professional stones (2000 & 8000) together with the Atoma diamond plate for flattening. I like the idea of the stones being supplied in a decent plastic storage case as directly above my sharpening station is a shelf tottering with all sorts of gear, some of which is liable to fall.

The Pro range is actually more expensive than the glass variety, but with a 15% discount :eusa-dance: on the purchase, it was quite acceptable - Rob

 

[Doug]

I read somewhere a dished stone was preferable :eusa-whistle:

 

[AJB Temple]

Be interesting to see how you get on. For plane blades I would flatten them too. I hardly ever bother with stones I use for my knives, unless I am trying to get a mirror polish and have nicked the stone. I flatten using a Japanese grooved stone for that purpose.

Wonder if the pro ones are a different ceramic mix? There is certainly more meat on them than the glass laid versions. I've got a couple of J naturals too, but they are rather slow.

I suspect the plastic boxes will quickly get on your nerves all of mine live in a sharpening drawer on an absorbent cloth.

 

[Woodbloke]

Wonder if the pro ones are a different ceramic mix? There is certainly more meat on them than the glass laid versions.

Difficult to say. I compared both side by side in the showroom and they appeared to be the same but only a comparison after sustained use would indicate a difference. Both about the same price though although the Pro ones are slightly more expensive - Rob

 

[—Tom—]

I’ve got a set of the glass stones, and like them for touch ups. If you’ve got something to hog with for major sharpening the shaptons are then quick to splash and work through the grits.
They don’t have the feedback in use that something like a chosera has but cut quickly and stay relatively flat.

If you’d like to give some a try I’d be happy to lend you mine

 

[Woodbloke]

The new Pro stones have arrived and I've had a little play. The bumf that comes with them says that they can be used:



...in the box but it doesn't really work as they slip and slide all over the place, so that idea got booted into the long grass. I installed them by placing them on some Nairn cushion flooring, which is fantastic stuff for all sorts of applications; if you're not using it, you really should:



The cushion flooring is held by a couple of strips of oak, with folding wedges to secure the stones very firmly. The complete set up is as shown and once the sharpening session is over:



...a super duper cover is just dropped over the top. I tried them out using the LN 51 A2 blade which was in dire need of a hone, so it was a couple of swipes on the 2000, followed by a few more on the 8000 with flattenings done using the Atoma diamond stone. After the 8000, I did a half dozen pulls on the strop followed by the 'ruler trick' on the 8000.

It's early days yet, but quite impressed thus far. Lube used is water with a dash of blue Tormek stuff in it - Rob

 

[AJB Temple]

I did say those plastic cases will get on your nerves :lol:

It's great to have a sharpening thread on here. Not joking either - I always learn something. This time I am wondering what the "blue Tormek stuff" is? Bit like fairly liquid to improve slippage, or a fungicidal thing?

 

[Woodbloke]

I did say those plastic cases will get on your nerves :lol:

It's great to have a sharpening thread on here. Not joking either - I always learn something. This time I am wondering what the "blue Tormek stuff" is? Bit like fairly liquid to improve slippage, or a fungicidal thing?

Sharpening threads are good Adrian...within reason, but they have a horrible habit of going AWOL at the slightest provocation. The 'blue Tormek' stuff is what you're given (one bottle) to add to the water when using a diamond wheel (wot I've got) as it prevents rusticles forming on steel. A very similar product to HoneRite Gold as sold by Workshop Heaven.

You were spot on about the plastic cases; they were discarded within two or three minutes of use - Rob

 

[—Tom—]

Without stating the obvious the stone goes in the recess on the lid with the box closed. I have the 12k from a trip to Japan many years ago which is useable in that way, and the boxes are vented to let them dry as the magnesia binder will dissolve if they’re left wet. In your arrangement I’d just make sure to dry them off after use or you may start to see some crazing of the surface.

They’re nice stones

 

[Woodbloke]

In your arrangement I’d just make sure to dry them off after use or you may start to see some crazing of the surface.

They’re nice stones

Thanks Tom, I quite like them as well. I clean them after use and dry with a cloth before putting the cover over them - Rob

 

[Blackswanwood]

Rob - now that you’ve been up and running with this set for six months could I ask has it met your expectations?

Cheers

Robert

 

[Woodbloke]

Rob - now that you’ve been up and running with this set for six months could I ask has it met your expectations?

Cheers

Robert

Six months already;tempus fugit. As I've never used comparable water stones, it's difficult to compare 'like with like' but they certainly give a superb edge especially when finished off with a decent strop. I use the Atoma diamond plate to occasionally flatten them, but not too much as it removes quite a bit of material. I used to use the plate every time I used the stones, but now it's once every couple of sharpening sessions, so not too much and the stones are still flat. As I expected they're fairly soft and sharp corners may leave score marks, but overall I think they're a definite improvement on the SS system I was previously using. Also keeping the honed bevel pretty small makes a big difference to the time taken to achieve an edge and also the overall level of sharpness - Rob