Slats in window shutters.

[Andy Kev.]

Morning All. I've been asked to make some window shutters for a friend, the degree of weathering on the current ones making them fit only for firewood.

Their construction is very simple: rectangular, grooved frame with the slats/rails simply fitting into the grooves. The surface of the latter is in the same plane as the former. That struck me as odd as I have half a memory of the slats of shutters being angled, presumably so that rain water will drip off them. Is that normally the case?

The second factor is the choice of wood. I have heard that meranti is ideal for anything to do with windows. I've come up with the idea of making the frame in something robust e.g. oak and the slats out of meranti. That should provide a nice visual contrast. However, given that my practical experience of shutters could be written down on the perforation of a postage stamp, I'm open to suggestions. Someone (not a woodworker) suggested doing the frames out of pine as it could be painted to contrast well with the darker meranti.

I'd be grateful for any ideas about any aspect of this.

 

[RogerS]

.....Someone (not a woodworker) suggested doing the frames out of pine as it could be painted to contrast well with the darker meranti.

Your friend would not thank you for that. Imagine the fiddly job of repainting every so often around those slats

 

[Andy Kev.]

Good point!

I think that's definitely a non-starter, then.

 

[Lons]

I thought they are usually angled as well. Have you tried looking at images on google?
More importantly maybe ask your friends what they would prefer.

 

[AndyP]

Here, where just about every window has an external shutter, I have only ever seen louvred shutters with the slats sloping downwards away from the window when the shutters are closed.

 

[Mike G]

..... rectangular, grooved frame with the slats/rails simply fitting into the grooves. The surface of the latter is in the same plane as the former. That struck me as odd as I have half a memory of the slats of shutters being angled, presumably so that rain water will drip off them. Is that normally the case?.......

I've not got a mental picture of the existing. It sounds odd. Aren't shutters generally louvred (angled slats preventing rain from getting in, but allowing some light in), or flat panelled as a black-out?

 

[Andy Kev.]

I've not got a mental picture of the existing. It sounds odd. Aren't shutters generally louvred (angled slats preventing rain from getting in, but allowing some light in), or flat panelled as a black-out?

That's what I was getting at. I'm not posh enough to know that they are called "louvred" though.

The fact that they are all flat in the frames is probably an explanation for why they have weathered so badly. Angled it is, then.

 

[thetyreman]

I think companies use poplar but that's for internal ones, makes sense if you're painting them, too many knots in pine, I'd probably use oak only for an outdoor one, meranti isn't that durable, only moderately durable, obviously it'll be more expensive though.

 

[Mike G]

Oh yes, I hadn't spotted that about Meranti. Don't use it externally. It's not durable.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Thanks for the info about meranti. I read somewhere that it is widely used in the making of windows and therefore just assumed that it must be weatherproof! You learn something every day!

 

[Jonathan]

I’ve made a few louvered shutters for the Spanish climate and always used Sipo.

No personal experience working with Meranti , I can’t buy it locally.

I do know the Germans window manufacturers I work with use it extensively for window and door construction and I’ve fitted them and have had no problems so I’m surprised folks say it’s not durable.

Not wanting to hijack this thread but would be interested to learn why Meranti is not durable.

 

[AJB Temple]

I thought this was an interesting approach to shutters. In a courtyard of a very large Lutyens house in Kent. The other picture is of the courtyard.

 

[Windows]

Is meranti worse than pine for durability?
Sapele is a hardwood that people seem to mention often in relation to windows & doors.

 

[Cabinetman]

The old ones I’ve studied have been made from pine – pitch pine will survive outdoors, the windows on my old Workshop which haven’t been painted for as long as I can remember are 160 years old and they are made from pine.
It was normal to have solid panel shutters on the ground floor to repel burglars and slopeing? slatted Shutters on upstairs windows so that you could get a draft through whilst sleeping.
This picture is from Colonial Williamsburg, original Louvred shutters and as can be seen they did it the easy way by adding small angled bits between the slats. Can’t say I blame them, without an angled chop saw it would be a laborious job.

 

[Richard]

Oh yes, I hadn't spotted that about Meranti. Don't use it externally. It's not durable.

The problem with meranti's durability is that it depends on the species. There are approximately forty five species of the genus Shorea that go into what's sold as various merantis, lauans, and serayas including, for example, dark red meranti, light red meranti, white meranti, red seraya, red lauan and white lauan, etc.

On the whole the darker species of these examples tend have better (moderate) durability characteristics than the paler ones. I'd say your advice to avoid using the stuff for external locations is the best because you really don't know which species you're getting when you buy this stuff ... it may be moderately durable, or maybe not at all. Slainte.

 

[Andy Kev.]

The problem with meranti's durability is that it depends on the species. There are approximately forty five species of the genus Shorea that go into what's sold as various merantis, lauans, and serayas including, for example, dark red meranti, light red meranti, white meranti, red seraya, red lauan and white lauan, etc.

On the whole the darker species of these examples tend have better (moderate) durability characteristics than the paler ones. I'd say your advice to avoid using the stuff for external locations is the best because you really don't know which species you're getting when you buy this stuff ... it may be moderately durable, or maybe not at all. Slainte.

Which wood would you recommend, Richard?

 

[Trevanion]

Which wood would you recommend, Richard?

I would think most professionals would opt for Accoya (Trade name, not species) now, but theres nothing wrong with very carefully selected hardwood either.

The problem with shutters is that they’re made in several parts from very small sections which are more prone to warping as a whole. So if you do use something like Sapele, Iroko, or Utile, you have to make sure that you’re using the straightest grained pieces possible to have a hope of the shutters staying flat.

 

[Richard]

Which wood would you recommend, Richard?

Assuming these shutters are to be painted, any of the following in no particular order:

• Accoya
• Sapele
• Iroko
• Utile

All of the above are either classed as durable or moderately durable. Redwood (Scots pine) has also traditionally been used for external joinery, but it isn't classed as durable and long term external use relies upon good maintenance of a finish, i.e., paint, basically. Slainte.

 

[Jonathan]

If using Iroko remember to clean the surfaces to remove any oils that may interfere with the adhesive.
I’ve seen sash combe joints fail due to this.

 

[Richard]

Assuming these shutters are to be painted, any of the following in no particular order:

• Accoya
• Sapele
• Iroko
• Utile

All of the above are either classed as durable or moderately durable. Redwood (Scots pine) has also traditionally been used for external joinery, but it isn't classed as durable and long term external use relies upon good maintenance of a finish, i.e., paint, basically. Slainte.

When I replied yesterday I inexplicably forgot to mention that European oak or an American white oak would be another option, all of which fall into the durable categoryy, i.e., 15 -25 years in ground contact. What's a bit weird about not mentioning oak is that it was pretty much the first thing that came to mind when asked by Andy Kev for a species suggestion ... and then I didn't mention it, duh!

I know that people quite often give reasons for not using oak for doors and windows, etc, usually along the lines of it not being good for applying paint, or something like that. I've never had a problem with any external oak I've painted, or at least no more of a problem than the usual need to undertake periodical paint maintenance. I like Sadolin' stuff, for one, but anything oil based I've found is fine. I have no experience of water based stuff on exterior oak so can't comment. Also, oak, being what it is is one species that I like to leave unfinished for external artefacts, e.g., garden tables, chairs, etc. Slainte.

 

[Steve Maskery]

If you go down the (very expensive) Accoya route, don't forget that you can't use a PVA glue, it will just fall apart. You would need something like a polyurethane glue or epoxy resin.