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Another lock request...

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Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 09 Mar 2022, 17:09

I asked my youngest brother what he would like for his upcoming 60th and he instantly mentioned a tantalus for which he's probably already purchased some very posh cut glass decanters. The problem is that these things have very much gone out of fashion, so nobody (apart from Linley) seems to be making them.

The very best ones were made in the 19cent by a maker called Betjeman who was the grandfather of Sir John Betjeman, the once Poet Laureate from 1972 until his death. The one's that were made by Betjeman all looked very similar to this one:

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...and featured a Bramah lock, which were hideously expensive then and still are. I've only ever seen one small lock for a Linley desk drawer and it cost three figures and that was 20 years ago! The firm still exists but they no longer make tantalus locks.

My plan is to make a contemporary tantalus with a lock of some sort, not necessarily as shown above. I've been scratching round t'interweb now for a while trying to find something suitable so am open to any ideas or suggestions for this project.

Andy T came up trumps with the last lock request :obscene-drinkingcheers: but it's really, really hard to find something that fits the bill. TIA - Rob
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Pete Maddex » 09 Mar 2022, 17:20

Have a search for push lock, they tend to be quite chunky.

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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Stuart » 09 Mar 2022, 17:34

I can’t work out from that picture how they work. Is it a way of securing the handle to prevent access to the goodies?
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 09 Mar 2022, 17:41

Stuart wrote:I can’t work out from that picture how they work. Is it a way of securing the handle to prevent access to the goodies?

The handle swivels to the left or right so the 'goodies' can then be removed. Turning the lock would appear to move a pin or small bolt vertically upwards into the said handle so it can't then be swivelled and one's man can't then have a swift wee dram of the malt :lol: - Rob
Last edited by Woodbloke on 09 Mar 2022, 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AndyT » 09 Mar 2022, 18:07

Metal filing cabinets have a mechanism that locks all the drawers at once when a single key is turned, by lifting a metal rod. I wonder if you could adapt a filing cabinet lock in some way? Replacing steel with brass, and hiding any nasty modern looking bits under a carved out wooden cover of some sort?

I'm afraid my box of salvaged locks doesn't run to this sort of exotica!
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 09 Mar 2022, 18:11

AndyT wrote:I'm afraid my box of salvaged locks doesn't run to this sort of exotica!

Disappointed I am Andy; I thought you might have a Bramah lock hidden away in one your boxes :lol: - Rob
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Harv-53 » 09 Mar 2022, 19:07

Hello Rob
Check out this link it may be of help,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325085513626 ... SwLcZeySbI
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AJB Temple » 09 Mar 2022, 19:09

If Harvey's excellent find does not work out, then I think you can do it with a briefcase lock. Here is a link for 29 Euros. Solid brass.

https://mmcolombo.it/products/238-briti ... -briefcase
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Cabinetman » 09 Mar 2022, 21:21

How about a piano keyboard lock, feel sure you could accommodate it into the design. Ian
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Mike G » 09 Mar 2022, 21:28

Hasp and staple with padlock not the look you're after, Rob? :D
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Phil Pascoe » 09 Mar 2022, 22:05

Design a wooden locking mechanism?
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 10 Mar 2022, 08:49

Harv-53 wrote:Hello Rob
Check out this link it may be of help,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325085513626 ... SwLcZeySbI


That's a definite possibility!

AJB Temple wrote:If Harvey's excellent find does not work out, then I think you can do it with a briefcase lock. Here is a link for 29 Euros. Solid brass.

https://mmcolombo.it/products/238-briti ... -briefcase


This is another idea worthy of further investigation

Mike G wrote:Hasp and staple with padlock not the look you're after, Rob? :D


Strangely Mike, that was my initial idea but it would end up, I think, being a bit 'clunky'. However, therein lies an interesting tale. When dad joined the RN (Fleet Air Arm) in 1946 he was issued with this toolbox:

IMG_6555.jpeg
(164.07 KiB)


...which he gave to me in the early 70's when I started to mess about with cars and had collected a few tools; somewhere lurking at the bottom of it there's still a pushrod from a RR 'Griffon' aero engine taken out of a Shackleton (currently quite topical) when we were in Malta. The hasp has long since broken but the old man had still kept the original padlock:

IMG_6556.jpeg
(114.65 KiB)


After Christmas, we were reminiscing and generally swapping yarns so I think that he'd be quite chuffed to see that battered old padlock from the old man's toolbox on his tantalus.

So now I have a dilemma :eusa-whistle: Do I a) fit the RN padlock (suitably cleaned up) with this hasp b) fit some other sort of lock c) fit no lock, as Joyce suggests in TTOFM?

What say ye? :D - Rob
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AndyT » 10 Mar 2022, 09:03

If you don't use your dad's old padlock on this, what will you ever use it for? This could be the best low security requirement for it.

And if you don't like that answer I'll just add to the options by pointing out that if you look through all the antique tantaluses on eBay, you'll see that some lock at the bottom, in the wooden tray around the decanters. Shifting the lock down there opens up the options for locking. You could for example use a conventional chest or piano lock fitted vertically in the front flap, with the hook part on the edge of a divider.
Or you could wrap a longer or homemade hasp & staple around a corner with a hinge at the other end, locking with your little padlock.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Mike G » 10 Mar 2022, 09:35

Personally, I reckon I'd do some sort of secret lock mechanism which relied on doing a complicated combination of things in a set order. It's not just the fun of designing and making such a mechanism, but the built-in "you've-had-enough-to-drink-already" principal that appeals. Something along these lines:

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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AJB Temple » 10 Mar 2022, 10:03

I can see the sense of locking it if the decanters contained petrol.

Whisky, nah.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Andyp » 10 Mar 2022, 10:11

The padlock would add family history and a real talking point.
Hard for me to inagine the scale. If it would clean up and f it does not look too big I would go for it.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Tiresias » 10 Mar 2022, 11:29

Isn't the whole point about Tantalus that he could never get the fruit or the water?

So make it so the decanters can never be accessed. No lock needed. That'd be a family talking point.

Or maybe mythological accuracy isn't the way to go...

(I realise this isn't helpful).
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 10 Mar 2022, 11:41

AndyT wrote:And if you don't like that answer I'll just add to the options by pointing out that if you look through all the antique tantaluses on eBay, you'll see that some lock at the bottom, in the wooden tray around the decanters. Shifting the lock down there opens up the options for locking. You could for example use a conventional chest or piano lock fitted vertically in the front flap, with the hook part on the edge of a divider.

I had a looksee at the tataluses on Fleabay and came across one or two interesting ideas, where the front section falls away to allow access:

s-l1600.jpg
(308.53 KiB)


The lock shown here would be ideal, but I've no clue as to what it's called. Any ideas?

Then I saw this one:

s-l1600-1.jpg
(252.32 KiB)


...where the lock appears to be a fairly straight forward 'cupboard lock':

s-l1600-2.jpg
(137.81 KiB)


which are pretty easy to get hold of.

AJB Temple wrote:I can see the sense of locking it if the decanters contained petrol.

Whisky, nah.


The original idea of locking these things Adrian was to prevent one's man from having a crafty nip of the good stuff when the master was out playing golf (or whatever) but I seem to remember your missus is partial to a wee dram? :lol:

Andyp wrote:The padlock would add family history and a real talking point.
Hard for me to inagine the scale. If it would clean up and f it does not look too big I would go for it.


Thanks Andy; a vote for the padlock. I took the pic holding it in the palm of my hand to show the scale - Rob
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AndyT » 10 Mar 2022, 11:54

That's the stuff Rob, lots of possibilities.

Looking at one supplier of such items I found this one from Niche Locks. Sold as a back shoot sliding door lock it looks like one that could work. Half price too!

https://www.nichelocks.com/Traditional- ... -Left-Hand

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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 10 Mar 2022, 12:08

AndyT wrote:That's the stuff Rob, lots of possibilities.

Looking at one supplier of such items I found this one from Niche Locks. Sold as a back shoot sliding door lock it looks like one that could work. Half price too!

https://www.nichelocks.com/Traditional- ... -Left-Hand

Image

Just been looking at that site Andy; some lovely brassware there! I missed the lock you've shown above but I can't see how a 'Back Shoot Sliding Door Lock' works. Care to explain? - Rob
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AndyT » 10 Mar 2022, 12:10

All I know is in the picture, but I can see that something sticks out of the back of the lock and goes into a keep.
Worth a phone call to the supplier if you think it's a possible answer.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Andyp » 10 Mar 2022, 12:21

yes Rob, my bad explanation . I cant image how big it would look on the tantilus.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 10 Mar 2022, 12:38

Andyp wrote:yes Rob, my bad explanation . I cant image how big it would look on the tantilus.

I'm still of the view that the RN lock idea is a good one and a definite talking point, but that it would ultimately look very clumsy once the novelty had worn off :cry: I'm after the Linley look but not quite the Linely price! :lol: - Rob
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby AndyT » 10 Mar 2022, 12:56

If you don't mind doing some metalwork on a few bits of brass, you could do something like this:

Make two brackets under the upper wooden crosspiece, to hang down inside or outside the two vertical wooden ends. These could be in wood or brass. Cut holes through the brackets and ends.

Thread a flat brass bar through the holes in the brackets and ends, just above the decanter tops. One end of the bar has a bend or stop of some sort. The other end of the bar has a hole in. The padlock goes through this hole. It hangs neatly, flat against one of the vertical wooden ends. Only when the padlock has been removed can you withdraw the bar and lift the top off.
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Re: Another lock request...

Postby Woodbloke » 10 Mar 2022, 14:32

AndyT wrote:If you don't mind doing some metalwork on a few bits of brass, you could do something like this:

Make two brackets under the upper wooden crosspiece, to hang down inside or outside the two vertical wooden ends. These could be in wood or brass. Cut holes through the brackets and ends.

Thread a flat brass bar through the holes in the brackets and ends, just above the decanter tops. One end of the bar has a bend or stop of some sort. The other end of the bar has a hole in. The padlock goes through this hole. It hangs neatly, flat against one of the vertical wooden ends. Only when the padlock has been removed can you withdraw the bar and lift the top off.

Something like this Andy?

IMG_6558.jpeg
(213.99 KiB)


One end shown in an exploded view. I just happened to have a suitable bit of strip brass and I think I'd have to get some brass 'angle' for the brackets. The main problem I can see with this idea is that the padlock wouldn't lie flat against the side of the tantalus but at 90deg to it, unless I'm missing something? Is there a 'fix' to allow the padlock to lie flat? I also don't fancy folding a 90deg bend at the other end of the locking bar - Rob

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Edit: just had another look at the padlock. There's not enough 'meat' on the shackle for it to hang cleanly.

Edit edit: what a silly billy! It would work of course if the slidy locking bar was turned through 90deg and made say, 12mm wide. I could also silver solder the shank from a brass screw in the other end to form a 'stop'. It's all looking doable :eusa-dance:
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