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Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

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Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby derekcohen » 21 May 2022, 14:34

About two months ago I made a new dovetail saw. I've made about a dozen over the years, and been sharpening my own for a little longer. Sharpening and setting teeth is a skill that all hand toolers must master - in the same way as one needs to be able to sharpen plane and chisel blades.

This is not difficult to master: the right file, a saw vise, good light, a magnifier if you have old eyes (like mine). Old eyes penalises one when setting the teeth, especially new teeth. I have a method to deal with this.

Here is the saw ...

Image

Why another dovetail saw? Well, I have a bunch of these with different teeth - some for thin boards, some for thick boards, soft wood and hard wood. The motivation for making this saw is that I was curious about a thin-plate dovetail saw. Isaac Smith at Blackburn Tools supplied the 0.015” thick plate, which came machine filed (i.e. not sharpened) at 16 ppi with 5 degrees of rake.

Details on making this saw, sharpening and setting the teeth, are found on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... ilSaw.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby AJB Temple » 21 May 2022, 15:06

Timely post. I've had a couple of goes so far at making a tenon saw. In neither case was I happy with filing the teeth from fresh plate. I am finding it surprisingly difficult to get them dead on even.
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby AJB Temple » 21 May 2022, 15:09

Being a bit dim today, I just realised that you bought a blade with teeth already cut in it. Have you ever cut them yourself, as opposed to just sharpening and setting?

I find that it only needs one little error to end up with increasing unevenness.
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby derekcohen » 21 May 2022, 15:26

Yes, I have made them from scratch. Simply use the paper templates (for ppi) on the Blackburn site. These have the spacing needed. Then start the teeth on each line. Do not worry if the spacing is a little out - as you shape the teeth, you can move them back-and-forth.

This is very relevant since there are many vintage saws around, and it often pays to file off the old misshapen teeth and start again.

This saw came with "cows and calves", which refers to a mix of large and small irregular teeth ...

Image

There was a lot of work needed, including straightening the brass back ..

Image

.. but it turned out to be a very sweet saw ...

Image

Regards from Perth

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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby Lurker » 22 May 2022, 08:13

I re toothed a blade by clamping a hacksaw blade to the plate.
One from a power hacksaw (Donkey saw) they had at work, these are a good 30 mm deep so are fairly easy to clamp .
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby derekcohen » 22 May 2022, 14:12

Clamping a hacksaw file to the plate is a great idea. I must remember this, especially for high tpi plates.

Regards from Perth

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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby Pedder » 23 May 2022, 11:27

Hi Derek,

when I file teeth (I use different metal pattern for the correct distance) I use raked light so I can see only the tips of the teeth:

Image

Then I set. Concentrated. I can see, if a tooth is set or not.

Image
This picture shows big tooth (7tpi or coarser, but it is the same on smaller teeth.)

At least up to 19 tpi. But this is only, if I have the correct light.
At the second side of setting, it is easier because the tips of set and unset teeth shine differently.
(Suprisingly the set teeth often shine more.)

without perfect light, I would be blind and couldn't do any saw sharpening at all.

When the saw is set, I file on last round. So all the tips are untouched by the saw set.

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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby derekcohen » 23 May 2022, 13:42

HI Pedder

Great to see you here!

The raking light is very helpful. I try and do that, but also use magnification. The smallest I have sharpened from scratch have been 17 tpi. It's the setting that drives me mad.

Regards from Perth

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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby AJB Temple » 23 May 2022, 14:00

Welcome Pedder!

May I ask, when you set fine teeth ( am am trying to do a blade currently) do you use the old style Eclipse type setters? I have a vintage one and a newish one and I find them easy on a fairly coarse saw such as a hand saw, but very difficult to get a dead even set on say a dovetail saw.
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby Pedder » 23 May 2022, 15:16

Thank you for the welcome.

Anything finer than 14 tpi I set with my somax (eclipse 77 clone)

Image

This silve set is a special edition for fine teeth.
Sadly Somax stopped making sets.

The Somax had a problem with soft anvils, so i asked my frioend Gerd Fristsch to make new anvils a she did:

Image

They come flat and you are free to make your own setting area:

Image

But you sure can file the hammer of any eclipse77 finer (diamond file) and just turn the anvil around.

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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby Pedder » 23 May 2022, 15:19

Hi Derek!

derekcohen wrote:It's the setting that drives me mad.

It is. sometimes when I'm tired even the very overstrong reading glasses do not help. I have +1 on both eyes and when it comes to dio fine teeth, I use a +3 reading glasses. And good light.

When I think about it, I see it better than in the pictuires above. But then, I can't take pictures.

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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby Pedder » 23 May 2022, 15:46

Hi Derek

what i completly forget to mention: this is a great saw you made!
Beautiful wood, perfect finish, cutting nice! I like you new handle pattern over older ones.

Cheers
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby AJB Temple » 23 May 2022, 17:13

Ah, thanks. I see I will need to source another anvil set. Mine looks very similar but is branded Eclipse.
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby derekcohen » 24 May 2022, 00:51

With regard to saw sets, I have several, all either Eclipse or Stanley 42X. I like to leave each set up for different size teeth - when you find that sweet spot and do not want to lose the setting. I also grind the hammers thinner to match smaller teeth.

Setting teeth which have existing set is easier than setting new teeth without any existing set. The latter causes me to have double vision! My solution, as in the article I wrote, was to add a dot to each tooth with a marker before setting.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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Re: Filing and Setting the Teeth of a Dovetail Saw

Postby Pedder » 24 May 2022, 07:47

Hi Derek,
the marker is no bad idea. I did that sometimes, too.
I would dot the tip of the tooth to see from above.

But at 17 tpi or finer it is as difficult to dot the saw as it is to set it.
for setting i need a Rythem and must be fully concentrated. It is the task in saw making that I need most concentration for.
And sometimes I fail. Wich is realy bad at crosscut toothing. This is why i don't offer more thant 15 tpi crosscut.

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