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Set of dining chairs

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby AndyT » 30 Sep 2021, 15:47

novocaine wrote:
AndyT wrote:
novocaine wrote:homer's chair


Well, that's ok in Springfield, but not in real life! :D

Homer's weight would be opening up those joints at the tops of the extra legs and breaking them in no time. My design added third sides across the bases of the triangles to tie them together, and I think I might have shifted the tops of the extra legs up or down a bit so there weren't so many parts meeting at the same point.


balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3UXXyaqno0

:lol:


Ok, the modern world wins! :D :D
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby novocaine » 30 Sep 2021, 15:48

Sorry Andy, I was being a troll.
please accept my apologies for being a cheeky git. :obscene-drinkingcheers:
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby AndyT » 30 Sep 2021, 15:50

novocaine wrote:Sorry Andy, I was being a troll.
please accept my apologies for being a cheeky git. :obscene-drinkingcheers:


No worries - no offence taken or even noticed!
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby johnward » 30 Sep 2021, 18:06

I made a set of four Oak dining chairs a few years ago which turned out quite well. The joints I found really tricky were the the angled tenons between the side rails and the legs. I used the full drawing layout method on a piece of ply and after a few test runs I got them fitting nicely.

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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Steve Maskery » 30 Sep 2021, 18:10

Andyp wrote:Steve,
How come you have not incorporated that exaggerated lumber support seen in the originals ?


Well I do plan to, actually, but drawing them is harder than making them. I intend to copy that shape as closely as I can.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Pete Maddex » 30 Sep 2021, 20:17

You can make chairs without any angled joints by having the side rails joined into the front rail, that's what I did with mine.

ImageXmas Chair maquette and finished one by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

ImageChair parts by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

All the joints can be done with a router and a couple of jigs.

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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Mike G » 30 Sep 2021, 20:26

Are those laminated front legs on the LH one, Pete?
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Steve Maskery » 30 Sep 2021, 20:31

Pete, that's exactly how I intend to build mine. But that form does tend to preclude the use of stretchers, which is why the joinery has to be first rate.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Pete Maddex » 30 Sep 2021, 20:50

Mike G wrote:Are those laminated front legs on the LH one, Pete?


Yes, the teak I had wasn’t thick enough and I didn’t have enough to laminate it. So I used some beech to make up the thickness, my teak table has laminated legs with some beech in the middle so the chairs match the table.

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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Pete Maddex » 30 Sep 2021, 20:55

Steve Maskery wrote:Pete, that's exactly how I intend to build mine. But that form does tend to preclude the use of stretchers, which is why the joinery has to be first rate.


I think you could just build a slimmer version of the seat frame possibly using all dowels of different diameters.
That might look nice and firm things up.

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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Sheffield Tony » 30 Sep 2021, 20:58

Hah, angled joints are no problem for a green woodworker - you can just assemble the two side frames, pack them up on the bench so that the mortices can be cut (or rather bored with a brace) vertically. No worry about angles, if the front rails are x mm longer than the back ones, pack the back legs up with blocks half that thickness.

Don't know how this translates to working with seasoned wood. With green wood, the flex gives you some margin for error.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Pete Maddex » 30 Sep 2021, 21:24

Sheffield Tony wrote:Hah, angled joints are no problem for a green woodworker - you can just assemble the two side frames, pack them up on the bench so that the mortices can be cut (or rather bored with a brace) vertically. No worry about angles, if the front rails are x mm longer than the back ones, pack the back legs up with blocks half that thickness.

Don't know how this translates to working with seasoned wood. With green wood, the flex gives you some margin for error.


When I made my outside occasional tables all I did was fit the legs, draw a triangle on the ends with a rule across the legs and put an elastic band across the legs and set a bevel gage to the angle. pull the legs and use the lines on the leg bottoms and the bevel gauge to line up the holes.

ImageOccasional table by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Steve Maskery » 10 Oct 2021, 20:06

I printed out grids for the various curved components and transferred the curves to MDF. Where I couldn't use my French curves, I sprung a ruler in a sash cramp.

sprung ruler.png
(693.65 KiB)


sprung ruler closeup.png
(1.51 MiB)


Then they were bandsawn out and faired with compass plane and spokeshave.

compass plane.JPG
(115.28 KiB)


Never mind what the pencil line says, does it look fair?

eyeing up.JPG
(205.83 KiB)
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Steve Maskery » 10 Oct 2021, 20:25

With a set of templates made, it's time to build a mock up. Sketchup is great, but it can tell me only so much. In particular, seat heigh and back angle are only confirmed when I actually sit it it..

So I rummaged around for some gash timber and found a stash of rafters from the old shack that I demolished in order to build my workshop and thicknessed it to 35mm. Then I drew round the templates to make the components.

tracing leg.png
(1.17 MiB)


After bandsawing roughly they were flush-trimmed I had screwed the tamplate to the blank so that it was firmly fixed (in two positions which will be hiddedn once the crest and bottom rails are fitted), but even so, the assembly was not as rigid as I need, so the routed finish is not chatter-free. I think for the real thing I shall have to find another way of holding it. But problems like this are what mockups and prototypes are for, are they not?

I also turned my attention to the back. The former is made from insulation foam I blagged from a Lithuanian gentleman at the local tip. My biggest flush-trim bit is about 62mm, so I cut the foam into 60mm strips

bandsawing foam wide.png
(646.48 KiB)


then roughly bandsawed to the template

foam back closeup.JPG
(176.75 KiB)


and flushed trimmed as before

flush trim foam.JPG
(135.01 KiB)


For both operations you need really excellent dust extraction, otherwise the workshop ends up looking like Santa's Grotto.

Then I glued them back together

gluing former together.png
(1.22 MiB)


former in clamps closeup.png
(1.33 MiB)


It looked fine when I did it, but now, a few days later, it looks like a rocking horse. I think I shall have to glue it down onto a board.
Last edited by Steve Maskery on 10 Oct 2021, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Dave R » 10 Oct 2021, 20:35

Nice work Steve.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby AndyT » 10 Oct 2021, 20:43

This is fun! Action shots of hand tools in use as well - you're spoiling us! :)
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Oct 2021, 22:06

Poser, or have you a friend operating the camera?!
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Steve Maskery » 10 Oct 2021, 22:26

Sadly, Poser, guilty as charged.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby johnward » 11 Oct 2021, 05:48

Laid-out parts of one of my Oak chairs showing angled tenons.

No.3 chair prior to sanding 4 002.JPG
(236 KiB)
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby NickM » 11 Oct 2021, 08:22

johnward wrote:Laid-out parts of one of my Oak chairs showing angled tenons.

No.3 chair prior to sanding 4 002.JPG


That's very neat work.

Are angled tenons (as opposed to angled mortices) the norm when it comes to chair making? I looked into that a while ago (I think I was making a stool) and struggled to find a clear answer. I think the gist of what I learned was that straight tenons (and angled mortices) are stronger (no short grain in the tenon) but that most people make angled tenons as they're a lot easier to do.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Mike G » 11 Oct 2021, 08:45

It's very difficult to accurately chop out mortices which aren't vertical, Nick. I guess you could set something up on a mortiser, but you'd probably need two clamping jigs, one for each end of the piece because the angle would be reversed. Simpler to chop out vertical mortices and then cut angled tenons.
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby johnward » 11 Oct 2021, 08:53

NickM wrote:
johnward wrote:Laid-out parts of one of my Oak chairs showing angled tenons.

No.3 chair prior to sanding 4 002.JPG


That's very neat work.

Are angled tenons (as opposed to angled mortices) the norm when it comes to chair making? I looked into that a while ago (I think I was making a stool) and struggled to find a clear answer. I think the gist of what I learned was that straight tenons (and angled mortices) are stronger (no short grain in the tenon) but that most people make angled tenons as they're a lot easier to do.


I think an angled tenon fitting into a square mortice is a stronger joint than the opposite way round. If the tenon was straight then the end of the mortice hole (already offset to allow room for the front rail joint) would come very close to the face of the leg which would be a weakness,
The angle of the tenon is not huge and as such does not create a short grain problem.
Hope this makes sense!

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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby NickM » 11 Oct 2021, 09:51

Mike G wrote:It's very difficult to accurately chop out mortices which aren't vertical, Nick. I guess you could set something up on a mortiser, but you'd probably need two clamping jigs, one for each end of the piece because the angle would be reversed. Simpler to chop out vertical mortices and then cut angled tenons.


Thanks Mike.

I think I tried it when I built a stool (though I'd have to go back and check to be sure). I think I made a block at the right angle to help guide the chisel, but it wasn't at all easy.

When I made my demi-lune table, I had angled tenons where the curved rail meets the back legs and it was a lot easier!
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby NickM » 11 Oct 2021, 09:54

johnward wrote:
I think an angled tenon fitting into a square mortice is a stronger joint than the opposite way round. If the tenon was straight then the end of the mortice hole (already offset to allow room for the front rail joint) would come very close to the face of the leg which would be a weakness,
The angle of the tenon is not huge and as such does not create a short grain problem.
Hope this makes sense!

John


Thanks John, that does make perfect sense.

I agree that if you haven't got much room to play with for the mortice, then angling that could create a weakness. I also agree that the angles aren't huge so there should be enough continuous grain in the tenon to make it plenty strong enough. It's much easier to make a straight mortice so it definitely seems the right way to go.

I'm keen to have a go at chair-making one of these days - hence the question!
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Re: Set of dining chairs

Postby Steve Maskery » 21 Oct 2021, 18:01

A bit of progress.
Using my templates, I drew out the chair profile full-size on a piece of white hardboard. It doesn't photograph very well, but after a bit of manipulation I've got this. Yes, that is white board.
rod.JPG
(95.78 KiB)


Something was wrong. I'd been very careful to cut the templates accurately from the grid, but now they didn't seem to fit together very well on the rod. Eventually I twigged. I had the top of the leg an inch behind the foot and it should have been an inch forward of the foot. Easily remedied.

I cut a load of pocket holes and started to assemble.

pocket hole drilling.JPG
(167.97 KiB)


pocket hole screwing.JPG
(162.68 KiB)


It very quickly became apparent that my nice slender back was actually rather TOO slender, even for my tastes. And the front was too wide. Unfortunately I forgot to take a photo, though I do have some footage.

So I cut a new back rail 35mm wider than the original, and I also reduced the width at the front, all easily done with pocket screws.

The result was much better.

mockup no seat.JPG
(189.99 KiB)


mock up side view.JPG
(192.09 KiB)


The seat, of course, was now way too wide at the front

mockup seat too big.JPG
(188.66 KiB)


So I took it to the bandsaw and rounded over all the corners too. I finished the curve for the roll over at the front

planing roundover.JPG
(206.96 KiB)


I've taken too much off at the front corners, unfortunately, so I'll have to do that again. But the end result, without a back, looks like this:

finished mockup no back.JPG
(195.08 KiB)


It tells me all sorts of things that I don't get from the SketchUp model alone. The taper for the back legs needs to start considerably lower down than it does at the moment. The front corners need to be squarer than they are.

But the seat height is about right, I think. I'm going to bring it up into the house and live with it at the dining table for a day or two to see how I get on with it compared to my existing chairs.

The whole thing is made out of scrap (not quite, I had to buy an offcut of 1/2" ply), so it's not cost me anything except time, and it seems to me that that has been time very well spent indeed.
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