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More on Energy

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More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 22 Sep 2021, 11:55

In my searches, I found lots of places online trying to explain the price cap in terms of the maximum price the "average" customer should pay for energy and then stressing that it was the unit price and standing charges that were capped and so the cap did not mean a max price for any one customer and the more you used the higher the bill would be. All fine but I found it the very devil to get the actual unit price caps.
I even searched the ofgem website yesterday to no avail but today my google fu is working overtime and I now have found this document.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/ ... 202022.pdf

The amounts vary slightly with region but by looking up the type of payment method you have you can get the standing charge per day confusingly called the zero consumption cost and dividing by 365.
Gas costs are based on 12000kwh/year and electricity on 3100kwh/ year so by subtracting the zero consumption figure and dividing by those factors you can get to the unit price caps.
The data also gives us the Mr average usage of 3100kWh Electricity and 12000kWh of Gas

Armed with your personal consumption figures, you can then work out what your capped bill should be and maybe help you decide between going for a capped deal, likely to be the short term cheapest after any fix you are on expires but watch out for new and exciting post 1st April 22 cap yet to be announced (but it aint likely to be less than this cap!) , or a 12 month fix - likely to be dearest but protects you from the worst ravages of the 1st April 22 cap or if you can find one, a 24 month fixed which curiously is likely to be cheaper than a 12month fix but dearer than the 1st October cap. 24 months "should" help ride out the worst of the fluctuations and if you get one with zero exit charges, then you can always switch if the fix goes against the market trend.

I *think* but not 100% sure, these figures are inclusive of VAT but with reported price hikes being in the region of 50%, a 5% error on vat won't make a lot of difference :lol:

Note that this is just my interpretation of publicly available info and not financial advice!

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Re: More on Energy

Postby Just4fun » 22 Sep 2021, 12:45

9fingers wrote:The data also gives us the Mr average usage of 3100kWh Electricity and 12000kWh of Gas

What does everyone think of those figures? Do they sound reasonable? I am surprised the figures are that high. Our total household energy usage is more than that but we have a large old house in a cold climate. Maybe we are doing better than I thought.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby Robert » 22 Sep 2021, 13:43

According to a recent Bulb statement they estimate our annual usages as 5521 for electricity and 20276 for gas. 3 bed 1930's semi, double glazed and 200mm+ in the loft.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2021, 13:46

I'd love to know what uses up our electricity as our annual bill is way, way higher. Pity our meter is 1/3 mile up the road otherwise I could get a better grip.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby MattS » 22 Sep 2021, 14:09

Just4fun wrote:
9fingers wrote:The data also gives us the Mr average usage of 3100kWh Electricity and 12000kWh of Gas

What does everyone think of those figures? Do they sound reasonable? I am surprised the figures are that high. Our total household energy usage is more than that but we have a large old house in a cold climate. Maybe we are doing better than I thought.


I recently worked out the figures for our last year with the extra heating due to everyone at home during lockdown and we used 19500kwh of gas and 3900kwh of electricity. Thats a fairly large semi detached property. I think even our average before then was over 12k for gas and we used to only have it on morning and evening but maybe it's house size that has a big impact! Our provider is one of the ones gone into administration using the figures in that link I reckon my bill is going to be pretty much exactly double what I was paying two months ago.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 22 Sep 2021, 14:14

RogerS wrote:I'd love to know what uses up our electricity as our annual bill is way, way higher. Pity our meter is 1/3 mile up the road otherwise I could get a better grip.

A refurbished leccy meter can be bought quite cheaply and fitted to the input of your consumer unit so you can take readings with ease locally

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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2021, 14:23

9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:I'd love to know what uses up our electricity as our annual bill is way, way higher. Pity our meter is 1/3 mile up the road otherwise I could get a better grip.

A refurbished leccy meter can be bought quite cheaply and fitted to the input of your consumer unit so you can take readings with ease locally

Bob

...cheaply... plus the cost of my electrician to fit it :(

Also it's going to end up being boxed in behind kitchen cupboards - will need a redesign.

I'm looking at the Elite Classic from Efergy and have a call out re dimensions of the sensor as it will have to fit inside the consumer unit.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby Just4fun » 22 Sep 2021, 14:36

Robert wrote:According to a recent Bulb statement they estimate our annual usages as 5521 for electricity and 20276 for gas. 3 bed 1930's semi, double glazed and 200mm+ in the loft.

WOW! That is huge. Why do you think it is so high?
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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2021, 14:42

Just4fun wrote:
Robert wrote:According to a recent Bulb statement they estimate our annual usages as 5521 for electricity and 20276 for gas. 3 bed 1930's semi, double glazed and 200mm+ in the loft.

WOW! That is huge. Why do you think it is so high?


A lot of older houses in the UK have very limited wall insulation. And can be very draughty.

But it also depends on cooking...electric or gas ? Plus a whole load of other stuff. It's not easy to make any meaningful comparison.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 22 Sep 2021, 14:47

RogerS wrote:
9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:I'd love to know what uses up our electricity as our annual bill is way, way higher. Pity our meter is 1/3 mile up the road otherwise I could get a better grip.

A refurbished leccy meter can be bought quite cheaply and fitted to the input of your consumer unit so you can take readings with ease locally

Bob

...cheaply... plus the cost of my electrician to fit it :(

Also it's going to end up being boxed in behind kitchen cupboards - will need a redesign.

I'm looking at the Elite Classic from Efergy and have a call out re dimensions of the sensor as it will have to fit inside the consumer unit.


Make sure that whatever you get has a voltage monitor as well as current otherwise it will be inaccurate and unable to take account of your yoyo voltage as well as needing phase information to measure power.
You don't need a sparky to fit a meter!!
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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2021, 15:21

9fingers wrote:.....
You don't need a sparky to fit a meter!!
Bob



On the incomer ? I thought that one would.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby Robert » 22 Sep 2021, 15:33

Just4fun wrote:WOW! That is huge. Why do you think it is so high?


I don't know if it is correct for a start. Currently paying 135 a month but bound to increase soon.
No draughts but Mrs is always opening windows. Cooking all electric. Gas heating and water only. Mrs also keen on the tumble dryer. Front and side walls are uninsulated. Construction is (empty) cavity wall to 1st floor level and solid above. Rear has modern extension and actually made the house warmer. Like the idea of external insulation but no idea how it would look or work for a semi.

Thermostat in winter usually set to 22C. Prefer to pay the money and be comfortable.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby spb » 22 Sep 2021, 15:35

It's not notifiable work because it's not adding a circuit, so there's no part P building regs certificate needed. That doesn't of course mean you shouldn't get a sparky to do it if you're not confident or don't have the required equipment to test your work.

That said, safe isolation procedure can be tricky if you're working upstream of the consumer unit, if you don't have a supply isolator or it's a long way away from where you're working. That may or may not affect the confidence question.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby Steve Maskery » 22 Sep 2021, 16:48

All my figures are based on:
E - 4477 kWh
G - 10601 kWh

Gas boiler, 7 years old, regularly serviced, everything else is electric. Fan oven and induction hob. I use my TD only when I can't hang out the washing. But having a freezer and two fridge-freezers probably doesn't help.

There is no heating in the workshop, but even if I don't have any machines running, I have 12 x 5ft fluourescent tubes going, which I think I once worked out at about 750W

S
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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 22 Sep 2021, 18:05

spb wrote:It's not notifiable work because it's not adding a circuit, so there's no part P building regs certificate needed. That doesn't of course mean you shouldn't get a sparky to do it if you're not confident or don't have the required equipment to test your work.

That said, safe isolation procedure can be tricky if you're working upstream of the consumer unit, if you don't have a supply isolator or it's a long way away from where you're working. That may or may not affect the confidence question.


Thanks for that clarification, Stephen. Every day's a schoolday :)

You've got me thinking though. Since our house runs effectively on a 1/3 mile extension cable, there is a supply isolator 1/3 mile away and not sure if it is lockable in either position and/or has a removable fuse.

I also am now wondering what would happen if some muppet JCB'd up the cable. It's downstream of the company fuse and so I doubt Northern Powergrid will leap to our help. Wonder if it's covered by the house insurance. Must check.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 22 Sep 2021, 18:25

RogerS wrote:
spb wrote:It's not notifiable work because it's not adding a circuit, so there's no part P building regs certificate needed. That doesn't of course mean you shouldn't get a sparky to do it if you're not confident or don't have the required equipment to test your work.

That said, safe isolation procedure can be tricky if you're working upstream of the consumer unit, if you don't have a supply isolator or it's a long way away from where you're working. That may or may not affect the confidence question.


Thanks for that clarification, Stephen. Every day's a schoolday :)

You've got me thinking though. Since our house runs effectively on a 1/3 mile extension cable, there is a supply isolator 1/3 mile away and not sure if it is lockable in either position and/or has a removable fuse.

I also am now wondering what would happen if some muppet JCB'd up the cable. It's downstream of the company fuse and so I doubt Northern Powergrid will leap to our help. Wonder if it's covered by the house insurance. Must check.


My late parents bungalow has about a 300m length of buried SWA and that has an isolator, fuses at both ends and an elcb at the supply end. I'd assumed that would be standard practice and would apply at Chez Sinden too making it trivial to install a meter at the house end.

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Re: More on Energy

Postby mjp » 22 Sep 2021, 19:16

Robert wrote:
Just4fun wrote:WOW! That is huge. Why do you think it is so high?


Like the idea of external insulation but no idea how it would look or work for a semi.

***

We've got a Victorian detached house, solid 22" stone walls.

Always cold!

A few years ago we got our North-facing and much exposed pine end externally insulated - what a difference - the house is now far cosier throughout.

It took a year or so for the wall to dry out from the inside (it used to get all the rain and was permanently saturated) but from that time on, it's been a game changer and I can't recommend it highly enough.

With 2" of insulation it adds, overall, around 3" to the wall thickness and you wouldn't know it was there unless you tapped the wall, since it sounds hollow.

Well worth doing.

Martin.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby HappyHacker » 22 Sep 2021, 22:45

RogerS wrote:I'd love to know what uses up our electricity as our annual bill is way, way higher. Pity our meter is 1/3 mile up the road otherwise I could get a better grip.


Thats a very long distance for an "extension lead". A quick calc with a max of 3% volt drop and 500 metres indicates you would need 70 sq mm cable for the length of run to carry 20A or 35 sq mm for 10A. Of course if you have three phase the load can be split across the three phases but it will still be a large cable. If you have a reasonably high voltage at the origin then the volt drop may not be noticeable as we are meant to have 230V +10% to -6% so if you have 250V at the source you can have about 34 volts of drop before dropping below normal supply limit when many things don't work well.

If you have not got such a large cable you may be spending money to heat the soil.

I have used the efergy monitor and fitting the sensor in a consumer unit may be difficult it is not big but there is normally limited space, it is just one sensor per phase with a thin cable to the transmitter.

I have just signed up for another 12 months with a small supplier and am expecting they may also go down with resultant high charges. I need to stock up on coal and wood.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 23 Sep 2021, 07:39

Thanks, HH...bang on the money there. Fortunately, the transformer has had its tappings tweaked and my measured voltage at the house is often up at 255v which gives me a bit of a buffer when I turn on the Transwave rotary converter.

There is no way I can add a meter

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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 23 Sep 2021, 14:51

I don't understand those charts. They seem to suggest that you pay no more than about £580 for 12,000kWh but we pay double that for less KWh
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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 23 Sep 2021, 15:03

RogerS wrote:I don't understand those charts. They seem to suggest that you pay no more than about £580 for 12,000kWh but we pay double that for less KWh


The charts apply from 1st October only if you are on the standard variable tariff from your supplier.
You should have all the info on your tariff set out on your bill.

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Re: More on Energy

Postby RogerS » 23 Sep 2021, 17:20

9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:I don't understand those charts. They seem to suggest that you pay no more than about £580 for 12,000kWh but we pay double that for less KWh


The charts apply from 1st October only if you are on the standard variable tariff from your supplier.
You should have all the info on your tariff set out on your bill.

Bob



Bloody Hell...so that fixed price deal I got was a bad call....rugger.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 23 Sep 2021, 17:24

RogerS wrote:
9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:I don't understand those charts. They seem to suggest that you pay no more than about £580 for 12,000kWh but we pay double that for less KWh


The charts apply from 1st October only if you are on the standard variable tariff from your supplier.
You should have all the info on your tariff set out on your bill.

Bob



Bloody Hell...so that fixed price deal I got was a bad call....rugger.

Sounds like it. You really have to register with something like the energy saving club and they tell you when you are being stiffed. This is free market at work I’m afraid.
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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 24 Sep 2021, 09:40

There was some down to earth advice and info on the energy suppliers from the customer point of view last night from Martin Lewis.
Should be viewable on catchup /itv hub etc for a week or so.

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Re: More on Energy

Postby 9fingers » 24 Sep 2021, 09:59

The keys points that I retained in memory were:-
1. If you have a fixed tariff it almost certainly will be better than the 1st October cap so maybe stay put until it ends.
2. If you are with a co that goes bust your will almost certainly go on a standard variable tariff with another big co so you will be "protected" by the cap for 6 months.
3. A capped tariff can be thought of as a 6month fixed tariff with no exit penalty. During that period regularly search for any available fixes that look to be better than predictions of the April 22 cap.
4. The 1st October cap is calculated based on prices over a period ending in August so it does not not have the worst of the wholesale price hikes included. Those will feature in the 1st April 22 cap rumoured to be around £1450 PA for mr average (12000Gas 3100Lx)
5. The traditional "switching to save market" is possibly dead for the next year or so but we could see "switching to do better than the forthcoming cap" within the year.

Personal suggestion: enroll on one of the tariff monitoring sites so they email you when offers come up but as always, look before you leap!

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