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Pedant's paradise

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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Phil Pascoe » 29 Nov 2021, 18:38

Mike G wrote:
Phil Pascoe wrote:Reach out to ....

For free ...


Oh god yes. They drive me potty. You see "for free" in expensive advertisements on TV by multinationals.

How about "can I have a contact phone number, please? "Of course. I was going to give you my non-contact one until you asked......"


That's not actually very funny. I'm sure some of them do.

I ring my doctor and get a minute and a hlf of message telling me to go on line to book an appointment as it's quicker and easier. For 1/ it isn't, and for 2/ the first paragraph on their site says "to book an appointment, please phone."
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Nov 2021, 18:40

:text-goodpost: BBC should know better.

When I had a lot of young staff around all day (just before covid) I cringed each time I heard one of them at the Starbucks in our building say "can I get" instead of "may I have". This would have earned from the lady who taught me English and Latin at school "Yes you can but you may not".

My wife is German and although fluent in English and Italian, she is quite easily confused by American speech on Netflix or any broad English dialect. For her the Scots and Irish may as well be speaking a foreign language. However, she does know the rules of English grammar and has been known to correct people (eg her staff) who say for example "Martin and me are going to Starbucks."

Further, it is now a fact that anyone referred to by the mainstream media of any kind as a "celebrity" or a "star", definitely isn't.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Andyp » 29 Nov 2021, 18:57

Oh yes Adrian, the rules of english grammar.

I went to school in the 60s & 70s*. We were never taught grammar. My father had many an argument with two headteachers about the idea that “imagination and getting your thoughts down on paper was more important then spelling”.
Learning english as a foreign language is possibly the only way to learn english grammar properly. Unless you had a more decent education than I.


*I left at 16.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Nov 2021, 19:04

2 degrees and a PhD so did some school stuff, but both my current German wife and previous Dutch one both think I am totally useless at languages, understanding women or anything that they regard as essential life skills. :lol:
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Phil Pascoe » 29 Nov 2021, 19:24

Andyp wrote:Oh yes Adrian, the rules of english grammar.
I went to school in the 60s & 70s*. We were never taught grammar.


I started secondary school (then a Direct Grant) in 1965. For the first term of Latin we learned nothing other than English grammar as the master didn't consider it was taught adequately any longer in English lessons : he maintained that we couldn't possibly understand the grammar of a foreign language without knowing the grammar of our own. For that I am grateful to him.

When my daughter was four or five we played a game when out anywhwere - we'd chat and I'd say something "look at those trees! Aren't they a lovely colour" Then say "lovely", and she'd say adjective, "colour" and she'd say noun and so on. She got very quick at it, thought it great fun and didn't realise for a moment she was being taught.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Mike G » 29 Nov 2021, 19:28

You lucky buggers. I was educated mainly in Australia. They mangle the language so badly that it's probably a good thing they didn't bother trying to teach it. Like a few other things in life, I had to become an auto-didact on the subject to have a hope of being understood once I arrived in the UK as a 14 year old.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Phil Pascoe » 29 Nov 2021, 19:34

AJB Temple wrote:However, she does know the rules of English grammar and has been known to correct people (eg her staff) who say for example "Martin and me are going to Starbucks."
.


I read some while back of a chap employing people whose English needed to be very, very precise (I forget the area he was working in). He had given up employing English graduates and employed virtually all Poles and Hungarians with English degrees.

I came across by chance the YouTube video of the worst contestant on The Chase. Bath University. Jeez.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L4AletgPyk
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Gill » 29 Nov 2021, 21:46

Adverts that exhort you to "brush your teeth like a professional". I don't know of any professional teeth brushers. Even Prince Charles stops his man from going any further than merely squeezing toothpaste onto his toothbrush.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Nov 2021, 21:54

60s County Grammar School, me. I did French, Latin, German and Russian all to O Level, and two to A level.

Complemented the English Language I did and turned me in to the pedant that types before you. ;)

Don't get me started on apostrophes!
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Gill » 29 Nov 2021, 22:32

Malc2098 wrote:60s County Grammar School, me. I did French, Latin, German, and Russian all to O Level, and two to A level...


I think we need an Oxford comma here to avoid the implication that you studied German and Russian as a combined subject.

;)
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby RogerS » 29 Nov 2021, 22:32

Hic haec hoc !
Hunc hanc hoc
Huis huis huis


Can't remember the next bit. Like Malc, a long time ago.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Nov 2021, 23:30

Gill wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:60s County Grammar School, me. I did French, Latin, German, and Russian all to O Level, and two to A level...


I think we need an Oxford comma here to avoid the implication that you studied German and Russian as a combined subject.

;)



I'm not sure it had been invented in those days! :D I'm sure my English teacher would never have allowed it.

It just doesn't look right to me.

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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Sheffield Tony » 29 Nov 2021, 23:50

I was irritated today when in a Mastermind question someone was said to have done something after "being electrocuted". No he didn't. He either was not electrocuted, or he was dead. But despite clear etymology on my side, I see - particularly in US usage - it has become acceptable as a term for serious injury by electricity. Ah well. Can't complain too loudly about Americans abusing words - after all they invented the word, and the horrific practice.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby John Brown » 30 Nov 2021, 00:19

Mike G wrote:
John Brown wrote:
Mike G wrote::lol: :lol: Ooooh, this is fun....

utilise ;)

No. The z was the preferred spelling in British English up to a few decades ago.


Well, that all depended on whether you went to Oxford or Cambridge. ;)

The preferred UK spelling now is -ise.

Indeed. Forced upon us by Microsoft Word, I reckon.
My point is/was that ize is not some nasty Americanism, but what hope is there when literally doesn't mean literally any more?
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Cabinetman » 30 Nov 2021, 03:50

The BBC in particular use the word Epicentre to mean the centre of something-(nothing wrong with just "centre" ) whereas Epicentre is a Geological term meaning the point on the earths surface above a seismic event.
Shout at the TV time! The same thing used to drive R4’s John Humphrey mad and he worked there and couldn’t knock any sense into thick heads. Ian
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Phil Pascoe » 30 Nov 2021, 08:29

Sea change is another. And "overly" when it should be just "over". I'm not over keen on overly.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Dr.Al » 30 Nov 2021, 08:51

Mike G wrote:How about "can I have a contact phone number, please? "Of course. I was going to give you my non-contact one until you asked......"


For most companies asking for a phone number, I'd rather give them a non-contact one given the choice...
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Woodbloke » 30 Nov 2021, 09:12

Andyp wrote:Oh yes Adrian, the rules of english grammar.

I went to school in the 60s & 70s*. We were never taught grammar.


Slightly earlier for me; by the early 70's I'd been earning my princely apprentice's wage of around a fiver a week if I remember...but but Guinness was 15p a pint :eusa-dance: I digress; not only were we taught proper English grammar 'ad nauseam' but I can vividly remember being teached :D how to write properly, which was Victorian Copperplate! I suppose I must have been one of last little oicks who was taught how write like that...I wish I still could - Rob

Edit: the forum seems to be very sloooooooooow this morning? - Rob
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Just4fun » 30 Nov 2021, 09:36

Woodbloke wrote:I can vividly remember being teached :D how to write properly, which was Victorian Copperplate! I suppose I must have been one of last little oicks who was taught how write like that...I wish I still could - Rob

That's interesting. I was schooled in the '60s & '70s. They didn't bother us with English grammar but they did teach us copper plate handwriting. I wonder why they thought hand-writing skills worth acquiring but a knowledge of grammar was no longer required? They obviously didn't realise that handwriting would become virtually obsolete.

In my continued struggles to learn a foreign language I wish I actually knew something about my native language. Even a slight knowledge of English grammar would, I believe, help me enormously.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby 9fingers » 30 Nov 2021, 09:50

Just seen an MP on tv explaining that the plan to increase the rate of delivering booster jabs will take a while to “operationalise”
argh!!
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Mike G » 30 Nov 2021, 10:02

John Brown wrote:......what hope is there when literally doesn't mean literally any more?


I heard a Welsh soprano, whose name I've forgotten, say on TV a while ago "my head literally exploded....." :lol: :lol:
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Andyp » 30 Nov 2021, 10:09

Just4fun wrote:
In my continued struggles to learn a foreign language I wish I actually knew something about my native language. Even a slight knowledge of English grammar would, I believe, help me enormously.


That is so true. When I see the way that my girls (they were 6 and 3 when we arrived in France) have been taught french, from primary through to secondary school here, it is no wonder they have also picked up spanish so easily.
Very difficult for one of mine, on recent universality applications, to choose which was her first language. Mother tongue may well have been french, doesn’t father tongue count for anything? Total bilinguality is a joy to behold.
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Dr.Al » 30 Nov 2021, 10:45

Echo... echo... echo...
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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby Pete Maddex » 30 Nov 2021, 10:51



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Re: Pedant's paradise

Postby PAC1 » 30 Nov 2021, 11:10

Mike G wrote:
John Brown wrote:......what hope is there when literally doesn't mean literally any more?


I heard a Welsh soprano, whose name I've forgotten, say on TV a while ago "my head literally exploded....." :lol: :lol:

What a mess!
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