Axminster Warrington store closing

[TrimTheKing]

per title, belts being tightened all over the place, they’re closing the store with immediate effect.

Real shame as it gave me a local place to check out new purchases before buying, and I was always prepared to pay a small premium for that privilege.

I imagine not everyone was of the same mind.

 

[Lons]

Newcastle as well.

 

[Woodbloke]

That's a shame Mark; I wonder if they're in trouble? I had a 'fone call a couple weeks ago from a friend who has an exceptionally good product which is not only marked in the UK but worldwide. He mentioned that his invoices to them hadn't been paid for several months and asked me if I knew what was going on?? - Rob

 

[johnward]

I visited Axminster in High Wycombe a few weeks ago and was surprised that they have given up about half their floor space but plenty of the popular stuff was still available.

 

[AJB Temple]

Newcastle also closed. I hinted at the other place a while ago (in a thread about FFX) that I've seen healthier looking accounts. Quite a while has elapsed since the last ones and if they are leaking cash at the same rate as in the 2023 period, they will be in deep trouble. B/S was OKish, but the relationship between trading ops and family pension fund (which holds the property assets it look like) is rather opaque. In 2023 from memory they turned a £2m prior period profit into a £2m loss. Cost of exiting leases and redundancies will be an exceptional cost (non recurring) but a cash hit. Lack of cash is what pushes companies into administration. I hope they are OK.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I’m sure it’s not an easy market for any retailer but it’s entirely possible this is a nudge of their strategy rather than being in dire straits.

This year they’ve launched a loyalty scheme, it sounds like they are becoming the UK distributor for Laguna and seem to be making something of having a new sales force focussed on businesses. Whenever I’ve been in their stores they’ve been quiet which may mean exercising a lease break makes sense.

Hopefully the staff from their stores which are closing find something new quickly.

 

[GarF]

This is a bit of a blow. The North Shields store is very conveniently located on the way to my Mum's nursing home and the staff are excellent- I hope they're looked after. Not an appealing prospect to be reduced to screwfix and mail order.

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes. It will be a shame if they go. I bought quite a few things from their Kent store near Sittingbourne and did a turning course there. My big Bosch chop saw came from them and so did my bandsaw and extractor system. But on-line they gradually got less competitive. My concern about this sector is "what is the market?". I am no longer in the market for tools and machinery, because I have everything I will ever need. I suspect that woodwork is a mainly practiced by middle aged + men, young people are not entering the field and most of us already have sheds full of gear. Market peaked?

Building trade looking iffy. Perhaps politics. But profit warnings are a sign from some of the bigger players. JCB is negative on prospects for UK housebuilding sector, despite government plans for more social housing (developers not interested in building it). suggests trade market for tools may be depressed.

 

[RogerS]

.... UK housebuilding sector, despite government plans for more social housing (developers not interested in build
ing it). ...

Yup...very interesting article about this in the FT

 

[NickM]

The Basingstoke shop closed a while ago. It's a shame.

I thought I was buying enough from them to single handedly keep them afloat, but I was wrong!

 

[AndyP]

I’m no expert but their last posted account for 2023 are available online.

 

[AJB Temple]

^ Yes, the year end though is 30/4/23 so those accounts are near 18 months old and new ones will not be filed until Feb 25 as axi max out the filing deadline. To see anything useful for those who are interested you need to look at Styles & Brown Ltd not Axi itself. It's burning through reserves. Auditors signed off last year at the last minute and I expect that will occur again in 2025 as they will want to max out their judgement period for subsequent events. Reading old accounts without inside info is of course guesswork.

 

[Lons]

Axminster are still on the list of exhibitors for Harrogate next month.

 

[TrimTheKing]

I imagine an experience I had yesterday probably has something to do with it too...I was in the office and walking to get some lunch with a chap who I know but not really outside of a work setting. I happened to mention workshop, it led to a conversation about what I did etc, then he says "I might have a load of Festool kit you might be interested in then! I used to do a lot of woodworking but not for years now and no intention to in the future, so I'll list it out for you and you can have first option."

 

[thetyreman]

shame, I was going to buy a veritas custom plane from them and then they stopped doing it, it looked like a good place to visit even though I never went.

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes its a bit odd. They use to make a big thing of doing Veritas and LN kit and they had a really nice custom display in the Kent store. Then their own brand offering took over really and hardly any stock of the others remained. The own brand plane offerings were called Rider I think (very Jilly Cooper) and were of somewhat variable quality nowhere near the Lee Valley level of accuracy in casting and finish, but a different price point. The strategy seemed to have shifted to selling Axi branded PRC goods. They were making money then so presumably it was a deliberate approach.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I think there is something in what Mark has posted. Lockdown saw a lot of people start a lot of hobbies that have not been maintained.

 

[Mike Jordan]

My concern is that this just another symptom of the decline in interest in woodworking as a hobby or occupation.
My own interest was based on the woodwork and metalwork classes at secondary school, these were part of the curriculum in both grammar and secondary modern schools in my time .My enjoyment and interest in woodworking led me to look for an apprenticeship on leaving full time education.
The construction industry now seems to rely heavily on skilled labour being readily available from other countries.
The technical college I attended on day release is now a “university” handing out degrees in cabinet making, while all the oak furniture I see in even the most upmarket shops is the rubbish made in China or Indonesia.
The only other supplier seems to be online sales from suppliers peddling the same linked with the word OAK.
My hometown of Derby had six tool shops/ ironmongers, all closed now with the only tool shop being on an industrial estate.
Can anyone suggest a method of restoring interest? My only thought is of some sort of huge import tax .

 

[AndyP]

I’m not so sure that raising import duties is going to rekindle an interest in creative hobbies.
There is a whole generation or more now that have never seen their parents make or create anything be it in the workshop or kitchen or garden.
I never had the benefit of woodwork or metalwork classes at school, private grammar in the 70s. I did watch both grandfathers and father make stuff, from greenhouses and lean-tos to toys and games and furniture. Their attitude of “not paying someone to do a job until I have at least tried to do it myself” has long since gone too.
I would like to think that creative classes in the classroom is the way to go. Not sure how likely that is though.

 

[Woodbloke]

Interest in practical subjects was slowly dying out when I was teaching in the 80's and 90's. 'Design' was then the current word of the moment soon to be hyphened with 'Technology' and then simply Technology; what little making I saw done in the middle/late 90's was, I kid you not, entirely in mdf.
That said, private wood working schools offering cabinet making courses still appear to be thriving (West Dean, Waters and Ackland, Barnsley etc) though for some odd reason, Peter Sefton has ceased taking students. Notable online tools retailers apart from Ax (WH & CHT) are doing good business, so it's not all dooming and glooming - Rob

Edit - I recollect one or two schools in Dorset selling off the entire contents of their workshops!

 

[AJB Temple]

The state schooling sector has no money. Pushing kids out of private schools into state makes that worse (private school parents already paid for a state place but didn't use it). Absence of funding and the political decision to do away with technical colleges and pretend everyone could go to university, meant that state school pretty much stopped teaching woodwork, metalwork, music, cooking, sewing, drama etc and at the same time we lost the people who could teach them. The skills are disappearing gradually. Ikea means that people's idea of furniture is bolt together. The world as changed.

Edit: sorry. Post crossed with Rob's.

 

[Woodbloke]

Yes its a bit odd. They use to make a big thing of doing Veritas and LN kit and they had a really nice custom display in the Kent store. Then their own brand offering took over really and hardly any stock of the others remained. The own brand plane offerings were called Rider I think (very Jilly Cooper) and were of somewhat variable quality nowhere near the Lee Valley level of accuracy in casting and finish, but a different price point. The strategy seemed to have shifted to selling Axi branded PRC goods. They were making money then so presumably it was a deliberate approach.

Ax still do sell Veritas stuff but alas no longer stock the LN brand. I was there at the initiation of the 'Rider' range and they were made in India, with all that implies about the quality of manufacture...some of it was bloody dreadful which is why Ax had to check every single plane before it went on the shelves. The original Indian cutters were little more that mild steel and eventually Ax had them made in the UK. The original planes did have Indian Rosewood handles and totes but that didn't last very long. A bloke from India approached the then MD (Ian Styles) with a heavy brass prototype No4 which was the basis for the subsequent range.

For some odd reason it's ended up in the workshop outside - Rob

 

[Blackswanwood]

Ax still do sell Veritas stuff but alas no longer stock the LN brand.

Were Axminster the only outlet for LN in the UK originally Rob?

 

[AJB Temple]

Friend of mine bought a Rider plane, couldn't get it to work well, and ended up taking it back and getting a proper one. I posted about it on the other place years ago but I've forgotten the details now. As I recall the plane was out of true both on the sole and lack of perfectly parallel sides. Not knocking Axi - I've used them a lot as most of my original machinery came from them when they still used to stock Jet and such like. I hope they manage to pull through, but I suspect they need to make sure quality is spot on. Nothing I've ever bought from WH and CHT has been anything other than perfect. That includes quangsheng stuff, which was frankly top notch and amazing value. (Since then I tried to stop buying PRC things as far as practicable). I think my two Clifton's came from CHT and the level of accuracy of machining and finish was perfect.

 

[Woodbloke]

Friend of mine bought a Rider plane, couldn't get it to work well, and ended up taking it back and getting a proper one. I posted about it on the other place years ago but I've forgotten the details now. As I recall the plane was out of true both on the sole and lack of perfectly parallel sides.

I'm not surprised. They were and probably still are pretty abysmal; dealing with the manufacturer, Ax had an awful time with quality issues, the problem being that not only was the firm 4,000 odd miles away on the sub-continent, but they just couldn't be ar&e'd to turn out a decent product.

Were Axminster the only outlet for LN in the UK originally Rob?

No, I believe they were sold by CHT and still are, but supplies from the USA seem to be few and far between - Rob

 

[Mike Jordan]

I remember frequent use of the words Design, and Textiles as practical subjects.
I’ve also noted that most of the stock in M & S is made in India

 

[Ovaloe]

Building trade looking iffy. Perhaps politics. But profit warnings are a sign from some of the bigger players. JCB is negative on prospects for UK housebuilding sector, despite government plans for more social housing (developers not interested in building it). suggests trade market for tools may be depressed.

Trade work availability has tightened up a lot since the start of the year, although some of it may be down to skills shortages. Been fielding quite a few calls recently from lads looking for work - much more than usual for this time of year, even given that demand slackens after the schools and colleges/unis go back in early September/early October respectively.

 

[Ovaloe]

The construction industry now seems to rely heavily on skilled labour being readily available from other countries.
The technical college I attended on day release is now a “university” handing out degrees in cabinet making...

Not quite. A lot of skilled labour (and a lot of semi- or un-skilled, too) went back to eastern Europe following the Brexit vote. Our apprentices are now considered to be "fully trained" at NVQ2 level and are paid similar to a 30-year man, at least by agencies. No C&Gs, no time as an improver, so NVQ really means Not Very Qualified! The majority of the good guys in almost all of the trades are 50+ yo. We thus have a rapidly aging experience base and all that is coming through is badly educated kids, or in some cases foreigners who told the powers that be that they were a carpenter back home and thus have been put through a 6 week OSAT NVQ2 by the DWP to get them off the books. It's really depressing

 

[AJB Temple]

Interesting perspective. A man who has done quite a bit of brick and block laying for me is about 32 now. He has always avoided working for the developers who are building nearby (hundreds of houses) and has relied on homeowner / small business people like me who want quality work and no problems. He gets all of his work via word of mouth and is inundated. He is excellent. He dislikes development work because it is production bricklaying. He told me a week or so ago that there are quite a few guys looking for work now. I thought it must be partly seasonal (it's constantly raining).

 

[Ovaloe]

Your guy is right to avoid the big firms, if he can. They are all about dull, soulless, repetitive, deskilled price work. There is little pride in the product and often no incentive on the part of site management to meet anything other than the lowest standards. Hence so many complaints about new builds. At least that's in my limited experience. But 5 decades in the trades maybe leads to a slightly jaundiced view of the world

 

[Steve Maskery]

FWIW
I was in a Rockler store a month ago. 3 staff, me and another as customers. I think I spent 20 or $30. It was an enjoyable half an hour.
Perhaps at other times of the day or week it is heaving, but my visit could not possibly have been profitable for Rockler.

 

[Ovaloe]

Where was that, Steve?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Rochester, Minnesota.

 

[Artiglio]

During Covid the gov, chucked momey about with no checks whatsoever, the trades took what they could. Lots of eastern europeans couldn’t believe their luck and went home to build the house of their dreams with what was effectively a lottery win.
UK trades spent like drunk sailors on saturday night to avoid the tax bills from the gov money coupled with the money they still earnt.
Few really need more tools at the moment.
Work is definitely slowing down, the bigger companies are awaiting the current govs announcements on the 1.5 million homes they say they’ll build.
As for the supply of new tradesmen, a local joinery firm of good standing has basically given up on apprenticeships, the trend of 50% going to university has meant that they no longer have applicants that are bright, interested and motivated. They just get too many bottom rung no hopers that are never going to make it , in the rare cases they get a a really good new start , they’re off to go “ house bashing” as soon as they get their tickets. They’ve had apprentices they’ve let go at the start of year 3 because they are just costing them too much money in terms of mistakes at the bench, poor work rates and the constant oversight they need. As the boss says “even 10 years ago, we’d have expected a decent apprentice to cover their costs by the end of year one and earn us a few quid by middle of year two”.
They now just advertise almost constantly for joiners.
A younger trade , with a missus and couple of young kids, really needs to gross 75k plus a year if they’re to buy a home and enjoy a reasonable standard of living.
The days of the one man workshop are in fast decline, the cost of setting up and covering the overheads are just too great, so those remaining are largely the carpenter/joiners in their 50’s and 60’s who’ve old back street workshops they’ve had forever, house is paid for , kids are independent and so they don’t need to earn a fortune and can afford to leave the workshop earning nothing whilst they fit this week what they made last week. Most can afford to give it all up as and when it suits them.
Look at the on line auctions of liquidation and asset disposal companies/auctioneers, lots of movement in the market, quite a few timber merchants/ dealers have gone in the last 2 years, smaller outfits that had made a fortune out of the covid boom and can’t / don’t want to survive now the cream has gone.
Going to be a very different playing field in 5 years.

 

[AJB Temple]

That's a dismal picture painted there. I don't actually know how much Tommy the bricklayer earns. He's never been greedy and charges very fsirly and takes his time. He bought a semi detached house which he did up himself, fitted a new bathroom and a Wren kitchen. He's got a young wife one child and another will arrive next year. He wants his house paid off by the time he's 40 and I am sure he will do that. I met him when I asked three bricklayers to give me quotes several years ago. Tommy was a likeable guy and had good ideas, his price was reasonable in my view, I didn't negotiate at all, and he has been doing jobs for me ever since. He is totally transparent on pricing and the cost of materials has risen quite a bit. I helped him with his website and have given references for him to other customers. I think people like him will always be busy and always have loyal clients.

Same with a plasterer we use. Top bloke.

The timber and builders merchants round here seem to be OK. TP pretty much dominate though there are others.

 

[Artiglio]

Likewise i never negotiate regarding price, i’ve said what i’d like and expect that when job is done. My view is that if you knock 10% off a price you get a 90% job and deserve it. If i can’t afford what i’d like then i either have to downgrade or leave it until i’ve saved a bit more.
A friend wants a new traditional style/built front door for a 1910 terrace, frame with toplight and door to replace a composite modern door. Supply and fit from one joiner was 5k. Most never even came back with a price having tried pushing her to take an off the shelf Howdens style door, my guess is they just don’t want to make one.She’s still looking and is probably going on the list of the chap i use.
The customers idea of what is reasonable or otherwise very much comes down to a comparison to how much they have avaialble for work to be done. I’ve just parted ways with the electrician i’ve used for 4 years, necause he’s decided he’s worth £350 for a very relaxed days work.
Plasterers , i’ve given up, tried 2, both are way faster than me , but i can do a better job than the 1st ( who didn’t scrim the corners of the work they did so it all cracked) and 2nd is too busy juggling customers and a quarter of what i pay him is for the time he spends unloading and loading his van as he rarely did more than 2 days in one visit.
I’ve a good reliable joiner, brickie,plumber and leadworker. Too many newbuild estates locally that suck up most of the labour. Decorators are either useless ( not interested in any making good or decent prep) or out of my pricerange.

The joinery company i mentioned, had so many call backs on work they installed ( including a job they did for me, sapele sash windows, bays with misaligned architraves, weights not running because the sash restrictors were fitted in wrong place, timbers split where the windows were hammered in, window boards that were beyond a joke in terms of finish and alignement) that they now prefer supply only and only fit the number of jobs that their main site man can be part of. Lack of decent workers means they can’t grow. SOME of the work they do is absolute top class, but i’m not the only one that had a very different experience.

 

[Lurker]

All the tradesmen I have used are word of mouth and so far as I know are always busy and never advertise.
When we bought and completed gutted our current home all the trades were lined up, and we just told them what we wanted and never bothered asking for quotes, because we trusted them.
Every one of them offered design ideas and pointed us towards the most cost effective solution.

 

[Cabinetman]

All the tradesmen I have used are word of mouth and so far as I know are always busy and never advertise.
When we bought and completed gutted our current home all the trades were lined up, and we just told them what we wanted and never bothered asking for quotes, because we trusted them.
Every one of them offered design ideas and pointed us towards the most cost effective solution.

And payment immediately. The world has spun on its axis for good reliable tradesmen, when you find one you really have to work hard to keep them.

 

[Lurker]

We had a lovely Indian sandstone patio laid in the spring, by a company we had used before, next day I went online to pay them. I made the mistake of clicking the for building work box, the damn computer wouldn’t accept it.

I drove to the local branch and had a devil of a job paying it at the counter.
I know this was for the ctv but I had to repeat at least four times that the job was complete to my satisfaction (not money upfront) and that the well established company was well known to me and I had used them before.
After it was done, the chap at the counter commented that he had used the same company for his driveway

 

[Ovaloe]

Work is definitely slowing down, the bigger companies are awaiting the current govs announcements on the 1.5 million homes they say they’ll build.

And for which, at 300k new units a year, we don't really have enough experienced tradesmen...

As for the supply of new tradesmen, a local joinery firm of good standing has basically given up on apprenticeships, the trend of 50% going to university has meant that they no longer have applicants that are bright, interested and motivated. They just get too many bottom rung no hopers that are never going to make it , in the rare cases they get a a really good new start , they’re off to go “ house bashing” as soon as they get their tickets. They’ve had apprentices they’ve let go at the start of year 3 because they are just costing them too much money in terms of mistakes at the bench, poor work rates and the constant oversight they need.

Amen to that. I've been working with one of the contractor's apprentices for the last 3 days. He is coming up to his second year exams (NVQ/Diploma, not City & Guilds) and he is fundamentally useless. I spent part of my day today teaching him how to scribe skirtings into non square corners (listed building...), how when and why to scribe skirtings to floors (ditto) and how to adjust mitres on out of square corners (ditto). All standard stuff. It all freaked him out a bit, especially as I cut most of my own scribes using an inverted jigsaw, kitchen fitter style (I did show him coping saw use first), and adjusted mitres with a block plane (too old to keep walking back and forth to the chop saw!). He says he's never been taught any of this stuff - I was doing that sort of thing at the beginning of my second year in order to earn a bit of extra money from priced installs and it wasn't that unusual, either. After 2 years he still has no block plane, coping saw, pencil compasses, nippers or nail sets FFS! Apparently college haven't told him he needs them. Neither did his previous mentor. He has the attention span of a gnat, spends far too long on his phone and gets bored easily. He is also unfamiliar with the concept of using a brush. Yet he expects to pass his exams in a couple of months (he won't) and be on full chippie's wage next year. 50 years ago he wouldn't have lasted 3 months. What was that scraping the barrel again?