• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Trading Wherry 'Lady Garnet'

Mike G said:
All my labour is unpaid. Always. I've no problem with that.
Click to expand...
Yes, I get that. I was talking really about garden volunteers. The National Trust for example depends on large numbers of volunteers and in many cases is exploitative.
 
AJB Temple said:
Yes, I get that. I was talking really about garden volunteers. The National Trust for example depends on large numbers of volunteers and in many cases is exploitative.
Click to expand...
Ditto canal and rivers trust...
 
Mike G said:
I rode down to Maldon yesterday, and there were 7 Thames Sailing Barges on the quayside. I know they're not Norfolk Wherries, but they were also tough working boats designed with simplicity and robustness in mind, and to be operated by a crew of only two. I got chatting with one of the guys who suggested I volunteer with them. They do lots of restoration work in the winters, and accomodation is provided over the weekends on one of the boats. It'd get me out of the house.....
Click to expand...
Mike, I love Thames Barges. I seriously considered building one of them before I decided on a Norfolk Wherry instead.
AndyP said:
Fascinating to see you steam bend that blank in situ.
Click to expand...
It seems to be a controversial method for some, as it's not the traditional steam box, but I find that it works brilliantly, particularly because of the plank already being in situ. Not sure how I'm going to do it for the wherry planking though, haven't decided yet.
 
Another episode, this time with a new bit of kit... for which I've had to acquire the new skill of chainsawing! I also visited the amazing Sutton Hoo project - an Anglo-Saxon replica clinker ship built with Anglo-Saxon techniques.
 
I’m somewhat amazed/surprised that you do so much milling with a chain saw. It obviously works for you though.
 
AndyP said:
I’m somewhat amazed/surprised that you do so much milling with a chain saw. It obviously works for you though.
Click to expand...
It wastes a bit more than a bandsaw blade, but somehow I haven't met anyone with a mobile bandsaw mill, only chainsaw mills. The one in Norfolk left a rather rough finish, but Ollie's set-up was very smooth, so there wasn't too much wasted, which was nice.
 
Don McDermott said:
In the latest episode of Building Lady Garnet, we're milling oak planks for my 48-foot trading wherry, and steaming timbers into the 9-foot dinghy.
Click to expand...
Very interesting to see the work and progress Don.

I expect it’s easier getting on with things in the summer months. How many hours per week are you spending on it?

Cheers

Robert
 
Blackswanwood said:
Very interesting to see the work and progress Don.

I expect it’s easier getting on with things in the summer months. How many hours per week are you spending on it?

Cheers

Robert
Click to expand...
Thanks Robert! That's a very good question, it's been a bit hit and miss at times. Maybe 17 hours a week at best? I haven't really kept track!
 
Have you thought about getting a mobile sawmill to cut up your logs - would be alot more efficient use of time and materials?
 
JamesHow said:
Have you thought about getting a mobile sawmill to cut up your logs - would be alot more efficient use of time and materials?
Click to expand...
I don't have one myself, but my mate Ollie has a mobile sawmill which has been very handy!
 
So at long last, I've sorted through all the oak and got it nicely stacked. Now that the tent is (mostly) clear, I can start laying the lofting floor again! I've also made more progress on the tender for the wherry, the 9-foot dinghy.
 
It's a difficult time, Don, to sustain a Youtube channel. Well done for getting this far. You're in a phase of essential behind-the-scenes sort of work, which doesn't leave you very much to show for all the time and effort. Once you start lofting, and then taking the first patterns from the lofting floor, there will be very visible progress and you won't have to work so hard to sustain an audience.
 
Thank you @Mike G. I think you are quite right, once the backbone starts going up and a vague shape of a boat appears, it will generate more interest.
 
I already had some idea that boat building needs tons of wood and megatons of effort. My view is being ably reinforced by the engagingly told story so far!

Don, I hope you don't have to work in the 30°+ heat and can allow yourself some time off occasionally.
 
AndyT said:
I already had some idea that boat building needs tons of wood and megatons of effort. My view is being ably reinforced by the engagingly told story so far!

Don, I hope you don't have to work in the 30°+ heat and can allow yourself some time off occasionally.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I must admit that I was surprised at how much time and effort was needed just to sort the oak for the build... and all that oak will only take me to roughly halfway through the planking! I take Sunday as my day of rest, but otherwise, I try to keep at it as much as possible. I work part time at the boatyard for my proper job, 3 to 4 days a week, but on those days, I try to do an hour or two of work on the wherry after I finish work at 4. That's probably the hardest time, if I'm honest. On the days when I can spend the whole day on the wherry, I really get into a groove and I don't want to go home at the end of the day! But I have to, because I do video editing in the evenings!
 
I'm following your progress, and your trip on the Albion looks interesting, I have just finished a job in middle of Beccles, I could have popped down to the quay to catch up with you, but I'm now going the other way, up to Potter Heigham, for a project.

I used to launch my trailer sailor (when I had it) from Oulton Broad and sail to Burgh St Peter for lunch, and back for the day, and I did have a 24" motor cruiser, moored at Brundal, but gave that up as well when the all the costs and fees became extortionate.

My past sailing was all done out of Mersea Island on the Blackwater, as crew, on some very nice yachts.

If you weren't so far away I'd be round to help like a shot.
 
@HOJ I've heard good things about the Blackwater, but never sailed there myself. Have you sailed on the Thames Barges? They seem to be around there quite a bit. Oulton to Burgh St Peter and back sounds like a day well spent - mind you, any day spent on the Broads is a day well spent, in my opinion! If you ever find yourself near Windsor, pop by the yard and say hello!
 
I'm very fortunate, I only live 5 minutes away from Rockland Broad, but don't get down there much now, used to do a bit of fishing and walking and frequented the pubs along that stretch of the river Yare, either by boat or car, but there all too pricey now, if not closed.

When I was crewing out of West Mersea it was on keelboats and we were racing! so no, I wasn't aware of any Thames Barges at the time.

I don't go to far nowadays, gave up London and the surrounds (living and working) 40 years a go when I moved up to Norfolk, so unlikely unless I get summoned to attend court!

One observation I do have though, from your last video, is putting that Oak beam up on the container, that's a far from ideal situation, I fear that it will dry out, shake and crack, making it unusable in the long run, all my big Oak, I keep in my cart shed, out the direct sun and covered up to negate it drying too rapidly:

Oak.jpg
 
HOJ said:
One observation I do have though, from your last video, is putting that Oak beam up on the container, that's a far from ideal situation, I fear that it will dry out, shake and crack, making it unusable in the long run, all my big Oak, I keep in my cart shed, out the direct sun and covered up to negate it drying too rapidly:

View attachment 34234
Click to expand...
I may be able to move it to a better location at some point, but right now I am very limited for space. The yard has already been very kind with how much space they've allowed me to use for timber storage, and I think on top of the containers was really the only option. It is covered on top and partially down the sides with corrugated bitumen.
 
The final stage before building begins… lofting the lines of the trading wherry Lady Garnet!

Bonus content: crewing on the wherry Albion on the Norfolk Broads.
 
NickM said:
You probably covered this in an earlier video Don, but is there a lead ballast keel on the wherry?
Click to expand...
Very good question. My wherry will have an additional "slipping keel" which will be bolted onto the underside of the oak keel which I'm scarphing in the video. The slipping keel, as the name suggests, is easily removable if the wherry needs to go into shallower water. Traditionally it would be made of pine; however, I am considering having a metal slipping keel for extra ballast. But that is very much undecided at the moment!
 
Don McDermott said:
Very good question. My wherry will have an additional "slipping keel" which will be bolted onto the underside of the oak keel which I'm scarphing in the video. The slipping keel, as the name suggests, is easily removable if the wherry needs to go into shallower water. Traditionally it would be made of pine; however, I am considering having a metal slipping keel for extra ballast. But that is very much undecided at the moment!
Click to expand...
I didn't know that. So the wherry would have to be grounded and tipped on it's side to get the keel off? I'm wondering what the advantage is over having removable ballast immediately above and around the keel but inside the hull? I realise that there would be a slight difference of centre of gravity, but not enough to make a difference in a broad beam boat designed to operate in shallow water?
 
AJB Temple said:
I didn't know that. So the wherry would have to be grounded and tipped on it's side to get the keel off? I'm wondering what the advantage is over having removable ballast immediately above and around the keel but inside the hull? I realise that there would be a slight difference of centre of gravity, but not enough to make a difference in a broad beam boat designed to operate in shallow water?
Click to expand...
Actually, the slipping keel is designed to be taken off (and put back on again) while the wherry is still in the water. The slipping keel is attached with three bolts, you remove those long bolts to release the keel and then quickly put in shorter bolts to replace them. Putting it back on seems like it would be more difficult! There were lines on one end and a metal keel band on the other than you lined up on the stem and stern, which should put the slipping keel in the right place to take the long bolts. According to Roy Clark, who wrote the definitive book on wherries, a good wherryman could do it without letting in more than a bucketful of water for each bolt.

Regarding the ballast, since my ambitious plan is to use Lady Garnet to transport cargo on the Thames, I have to think about modern regulations, which will not allow a cargo vessel to heel over a certain percentage (7%, I think?). Of course, those regs are not about sailing vessels (in fact, there are currently no regulations written for UK inland waterway sailing cargo vessels) but the authorities will probably still apply them to Lady Garnet. So when they do the stability test, Lady Garnet needs to be ballasted enough to stop her heeling past that percentage. A metal slipping keel, rather than a pine one, might make that crucial difference. When is comes to removable ballast inside the boat, I don't think it achieves that same level of stability as the slipping keel, pound for pound, because in addition to the weight being lower down, the slipping keel also provides extra surface area against the water, further preventing the boat from heeling. Also, there are regulations about the height of the deck above the waterline. Putting in enough ballast to achieve the same stability as a metal keel would add a greater amount of weight, which in turn would sink her lower in the water, meaning the wherry would have to carry less cargo to obey the rules on freeboard. Unless the authorities agreed that when carrying cargo, the ballast could be removed and the weight of the ballast added to the allowed tonnage. But I'm not sure they'd agree to that.

As I said, it's all still very undecided. But the slipping keel is the last part of the boat to be made, so I have a few years to figure it out! I'd much rather make it from wood, of course.
 
Thank you Don. That makes a lot of sense now. Apart from the deliberate holes that let water in! :oops: I learn something daily.
 
Don McDermott said:
Actually, the slipping keel is designed to be taken off (and put back on again) while the wherry is still in the water. The slipping keel is attached with three bolts, you remove those long bolts to release the keel and then quickly put in shorter bolts to replace them. Putting it back on seems like it would be more difficult! There were lines on one end and a metal keel band on the other than you lined up on the stem and stern, which should put the slipping keel in the right place to take the long bolts. According to Roy Clark, who wrote the definitive book on wherries, a good wherryman could do it without letting in more than a bucketful of water for each bolt.

Regarding the ballast, since my ambitious plan is to use Lady Garnet to transport cargo on the Thames, I have to think about modern regulations, which will not allow a cargo vessel to heel over a certain percentage (7%, I think?). Of course, those regs are not about sailing vessels (in fact, there are currently no regulations written for UK inland waterway sailing cargo vessels) but the authorities will probably still apply them to Lady Garnet. So when they do the stability test, Lady Garnet needs to be ballasted enough to stop her heeling past that percentage. A metal slipping keel, rather than a pine one, might make that crucial difference. When is comes to removable ballast inside the boat, I don't think it achieves that same level of stability as the slipping keel, pound for pound, because in addition to the weight being lower down, the slipping keel also provides extra surface area against the water, further preventing the boat from heeling. Also, there are regulations about the height of the deck above the waterline. Putting in enough ballast to achieve the same stability as a metal keel would add a greater amount of weight, which in turn would sink her lower in the water, meaning the wherry would have to carry less cargo to obey the rules on freeboard. Unless the authorities agreed that when carrying cargo, the ballast could be removed and the weight of the ballast added to the allowed tonnage. But I'm not sure they'd agree to that.

As I said, it's all still very undecided. But the slipping keel is the last part of the boat to be made, so I have a few years to figure it out! I'd much rather make it from wood, of course.
Click to expand...
How did they manage to sink it under the yacht and line up the bolt holes?!
 
JamesHow said:
How did they manage to sink it under the yacht and line up the bolt holes?!
Click to expand...
They would push it under with a boathook. Then you lined the metal bands on the stem and sternpost in place, and at that point, the keel "should" be in the right position under the boat. Then you went into the hold, removed the first bolt, and put in the longer bolt... and hoped that it would go in! I don't intend to be taking the slipping keel on and off any more than is absolutely necessary, that's for sure!
 
I've switched over to working on the nine-foot dinghy, which will be the tender for the wherry, in this episode. The dinghy is in the way where it is in the tent, so I need to get it finished!
 
Don McDermott said:
I've switched over to working on the nine-foot dinghy, which will be the tender for the wherry, in this episode. The dinghy is in the way where it is in the tent, so I need to get it finished!
Click to expand...
Where did you learn your boat building skills?
 
Beautiful! That's the wherry Maud, the only clinker-planked trading wherry afloat... for the moment, that is. Lady Garnet will double the number in a few years! I've never sailed on Maud, but she is a lovely-looking craft. She isn't as well known as the Albion, the carvel-planked wherry that I crew on, but Maud does tend to sail much later into the year. Albion stops sailing at the end of September, I believe.
 
Don McDermott said:
Beautiful! That's the wherry Maud, the only clinker-planked trading wherry afloat... for the moment, that is. Lady Garnet will double the number in a few years! I've never sailed on Maud, but she is a lovely-looking craft. She isn't as well known as the Albion, the carvel-planked wherry that I crew on, but Maud does tend to sail much later into the year. Albion stops sailing at the end of September, I believe.
Click to expand...
Thanks Don. If (as I'm sure you will) you can get another beautiful craft like that on the water, then you'll have done a wonderful thing!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top