NickM
Old Oak
Particularly as left and right would have been enough!That looks really smart.
I don't think my obsessive nature would cope with one jig marked "top" and the other marked "up"
-
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Chairs - Done!
- Thread starter NickM
- Start date
duke
Old Oak
Looks really nice Nick, I have made notes for when I tackle some chairs.
NickM
Old Oak
I've done a bit more today. First up I made one of the front corner blocks:
This wasn't too difficult as the inside faces of the front and side rails are straight. However, the front edge needs to be cut on an angle so that the block is parallel with the side rail which rakes down towards the back of the chair. That's really just an aesthetic point because the seat isn't supported by these blocks, but it would look odd to me if the corner block is set more deep at the front.
I then made the other front corner block and while musing about the process of fitting these (they'll be glued and screwed - brass screws have been ordered) I remembered that I need to scribe the seat base before I fit any corner blocks so I turned my attention to that.
I started by making an oversized blank and shaping the back edge:
I could then flip the whole lot upside down and just about get a pencil into the rebate to scribe a line. This is why it couldn't be done after the corner blocks have been permanently fitted.
This worked quite well, but it was hard to see the pencil line being formed and therefore I wasn't all that happy to trust it entirely. That meant sneaking up on it which took a while. I bandsawed most of the waste off and did the rest with a spokeshave and files. It got there in the end. The clearance isn't completely even all the way around, but I'll need to take more off anyway to allow for the seat covering material and I want to leave it a bit oversized so I can use it as a template for the next one (hopefully the chairs are similar enough to do that...).
The ply is a little but warped at the moment which is why the front right and rear left corners are sticking up (and absolutely not a twisted chair
). I've got the ply on a flat surface under some weight to see if it will flatten out.
I then turned my attention to the rear corner braces. These are a fair bit harder because (a) the back rail of the chair is curved (and a hand-shaped curve at that), and (b) these partly support the seat at the back so need to be flush with the rebate and continue in the same plane onto the back rail. As a result of these difficulties, I decided not to attempt to fit them tight around the back regs of the chair and made a clearance hole instead.
I made a cardboard template to hopefully get me close and then it was a case of offering up and adjusting.
This wasn't too difficult as the inside faces of the front and side rails are straight. However, the front edge needs to be cut on an angle so that the block is parallel with the side rail which rakes down towards the back of the chair. That's really just an aesthetic point because the seat isn't supported by these blocks, but it would look odd to me if the corner block is set more deep at the front.
I then made the other front corner block and while musing about the process of fitting these (they'll be glued and screwed - brass screws have been ordered) I remembered that I need to scribe the seat base before I fit any corner blocks so I turned my attention to that.
I started by making an oversized blank and shaping the back edge:
I could then flip the whole lot upside down and just about get a pencil into the rebate to scribe a line. This is why it couldn't be done after the corner blocks have been permanently fitted.
This worked quite well, but it was hard to see the pencil line being formed and therefore I wasn't all that happy to trust it entirely. That meant sneaking up on it which took a while. I bandsawed most of the waste off and did the rest with a spokeshave and files. It got there in the end. The clearance isn't completely even all the way around, but I'll need to take more off anyway to allow for the seat covering material and I want to leave it a bit oversized so I can use it as a template for the next one (hopefully the chairs are similar enough to do that...).
The ply is a little but warped at the moment which is why the front right and rear left corners are sticking up (and absolutely not a twisted chair
). I've got the ply on a flat surface under some weight to see if it will flatten out.I then turned my attention to the rear corner braces. These are a fair bit harder because (a) the back rail of the chair is curved (and a hand-shaped curve at that), and (b) these partly support the seat at the back so need to be flush with the rebate and continue in the same plane onto the back rail. As a result of these difficulties, I decided not to attempt to fit them tight around the back regs of the chair and made a clearance hole instead.
I made a cardboard template to hopefully get me close and then it was a case of offering up and adjusting.
Attachments
Dr.Al
Old Oak
Impressive work. Fitting to hand-shaped curves doesn't sound at all easy.
NickM
Old Oak
I've now glued and screwed the corner blocks into position.
I had intended to plug the screw holes, but I think I'm going to leave them as is. Some of the holes aren't cut perfectly because of the difficulty of drilling into a slope so I'm not sure that the plugs would fit perfectly and I think a poorly fitting plug might look worse than the hole. It does also save quite a lot of work!
All that's left on this chair is to level the ends of the legs (in particular, the ends of the rear legs need to be angled to reflect the tilt of the legs. I'll do that by putting the chair on a flat surface (table saw or kitchen island) and scribing a line to work to. The ends will have a fairly heavy round over to help prevent splits and chips. Then it will be final sanding and then oil!
The second chair is close to being glued up. Once the third is being glued up, I'll make the corner blocks and seat for the second and keep the process going until they're all done.
I also sat on this chair (with a loose cushion) for the first time and I'm pleased to say it seems to be comfortable!
I had intended to plug the screw holes, but I think I'm going to leave them as is. Some of the holes aren't cut perfectly because of the difficulty of drilling into a slope so I'm not sure that the plugs would fit perfectly and I think a poorly fitting plug might look worse than the hole. It does also save quite a lot of work!
All that's left on this chair is to level the ends of the legs (in particular, the ends of the rear legs need to be angled to reflect the tilt of the legs. I'll do that by putting the chair on a flat surface (table saw or kitchen island) and scribing a line to work to. The ends will have a fairly heavy round over to help prevent splits and chips. Then it will be final sanding and then oil!
The second chair is close to being glued up. Once the third is being glued up, I'll make the corner blocks and seat for the second and keep the process going until they're all done.
I also sat on this chair (with a loose cushion) for the first time and I'm pleased to say it seems to be comfortable!
NickM
Old Oak
It did cross my mind that I might be repairing them myself much sooner than that
Cabinetman
Sequoia
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Really good work Nick.
Might be worth just waiting a little before cutting the bottoms, a little reflection by all parties as to long term comfort/ slope of the whole chair?
Might be worth just waiting a little before cutting the bottoms, a little reflection by all parties as to long term comfort/ slope of the whole chair?
duke
Old Oak
NickM, have you picked out the fabric for the seats?
NickM
Old Oak
Not yet, but we need to decide that (and the construction of the pad - i.e. how many layers of fabric there will be) fairly quickly because it determines how much clearance I need to leave around the ply seat base.
Exceptional work Nick even the brackets are perfect. I may need to rethink my strategy for brackets. Just before I disappeared for a week I made some stock for the brackets and laminated the wood so that each edge had some material for the glue to hold. However they are softwood and quite industrial. I am now going to have to fit them very carefully and try to get nearly as good a fit as yours.
MattS
Nordic Pine
I agree such high quality work and attention to detail, even the corner brackets are elegantly shaped.
NickM
Old Oak
Thank you. I think getting them to fit well is quite important in terms of maximising their contribution to the strength of the joints.
Material and shape are not really important because they're never seen so I perhaps wouldn't worry to much about that.
Having said that, it didn't take very long to shape them - just a bit of bandsawing and bobbin sanding (I've got a relatively cheap triton bobbin sander) in my case. Material-wise, it's not a bad way to use up odd shaped offcuts. Oak brackets would look fab with your beautiful walnut chairs... The downside is that you'd be forever popping out the seats to show them off to visitors!
NickM
Old Oak
I've glued up another chair this morning. As time is of the essence when gluing, I didn't take step-by-step photos, but here are some before and after shots.
I don't always do this so thoroughly, but I cleared the bench and laid out all of the components and other paraphernalia I needed.
Here we have pinch sticks (for checking internal diagonals which tells me whether it's glued up straight or skewed one way or the other), wedges for the through tenons, glue pot (and the glue bottle if I need more) and brush, and some water, a narrow flexible scraper (made from an old bandsaw blade), a rag and a toothbrush which are used to clean up any squeeze out...
...front leg and rail assembly, rubber faced mallet for knocking joints together (I sometimes wonder if I should get a rubber dead blow mallet?), clamping caul which gives access to the through tenon for knocking wedges in, side rails and shaped front clamping caul...
...chair back, clamping cauls for the other side and an offcut for knocking the wedges in. The clamps were on the floor next to the bench.
This is the chair clamped up:
The gluing process started with the side rails - glue on the tenons and in the mortises and knocking the joints together. Then I did the same with the front assembly.
This time, I used smaller clamps to give better access to the through tenons for knocking the wedges in. They don't have as much clamping force but there was enough to pull the joints up (tested in a dry run). Once the clamps were on and I'd used the pinch sticks to check everything was "square", I knocked in the wedges using a hammer and an offcut for extra reach.
After that, I cleaned up the squeeze out. There was actually very little squeeze out from any of the shoulders so that was easy. As you can see, lots of glue has been pushed out with the through tenons. I can't easily clean that up with the clamps on, so I'll leave that until I saw off the excess tenon and bring everything flush.
I then made myself a cup of coffee. It's always a relief when a glue up is successful!
I don't always do this so thoroughly, but I cleared the bench and laid out all of the components and other paraphernalia I needed.
Here we have pinch sticks (for checking internal diagonals which tells me whether it's glued up straight or skewed one way or the other), wedges for the through tenons, glue pot (and the glue bottle if I need more) and brush, and some water, a narrow flexible scraper (made from an old bandsaw blade), a rag and a toothbrush which are used to clean up any squeeze out...
...front leg and rail assembly, rubber faced mallet for knocking joints together (I sometimes wonder if I should get a rubber dead blow mallet?), clamping caul which gives access to the through tenon for knocking wedges in, side rails and shaped front clamping caul...
...chair back, clamping cauls for the other side and an offcut for knocking the wedges in. The clamps were on the floor next to the bench.
This is the chair clamped up:
The gluing process started with the side rails - glue on the tenons and in the mortises and knocking the joints together. Then I did the same with the front assembly.
This time, I used smaller clamps to give better access to the through tenons for knocking the wedges in. They don't have as much clamping force but there was enough to pull the joints up (tested in a dry run). Once the clamps were on and I'd used the pinch sticks to check everything was "square", I knocked in the wedges using a hammer and an offcut for extra reach.
After that, I cleaned up the squeeze out. There was actually very little squeeze out from any of the shoulders so that was easy. As you can see, lots of glue has been pushed out with the through tenons. I can't easily clean that up with the clamps on, so I'll leave that until I saw off the excess tenon and bring everything flush.
I then made myself a cup of coffee. It's always a relief when a glue up is successful!
Attachments
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Great stuff Nick. Gluing up something as complex as a chair involves a deep breath, and good organisation. Fitting photos in amongst all that urgency is quite an achievement. Thanks for taking the trouble.
Cabinetman
Sequoia
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It used to be refered to as setting your stall out, ( well it was Yorkshire ) in other words all the bits you need lined up and ready to get to work.
Exactly as you’ve done it.
Exactly as you’ve done it.
Excellent, I might copy the clamping cauls. What is your strategy post glue up. Are you finishing the chairs one by one (blocks, sanding, chair seat) or do you intend to glue them all up and then finish them?
I am currently deciding which way to go at the moment. I think I favour finishing them one by one from glue up.
I am currently deciding which way to go at the moment. I think I favour finishing them one by one from glue up.
NickM
Old Oak
My plan is to do them one by one. I've only made one set of cauls so I can only glue up one at a time. Whilst one is in the clamps there is lots to do on the ones already glued up and also on getting the next ones ready to glue.
fiveeyes
Sapling
Nick....simply great craftsmanship. The attention to detail on the corner blocks, says a lot.
I have been thinking of trying my hand at chairs. If so, your tutorial will be front and center.
What tools were used in blending the legs to the rails? TIA
I have been thinking of trying my hand at chairs. If so, your tutorial will be front and center.
What tools were used in blending the legs to the rails? TIA
NickM
Old Oak
Thank you.
I'd use a spokeshave (and/or, maybe, a block plane) and scraper to get close to flush and then sandpaper. It's hard to take a bladed tool across a curved flush joint without risking tear out so sanding is often the best way.
NickM
Old Oak
I made a wonderful mistake this past week.
I'd spent a lot of time getting a chair ready to glue up. The process is
On the second rail, I inexplicably started shaping the roundover on the bottom!
I carved a great big flat to start the roundover so there was no ignoring it. I had a half-hearted attempt at gluing a piece on but it was never going to work so I had to make a new side-rail from scratch. It's one of the most difficult components because all of the angles (seat rake, seat taper and rear leg tilt) feature! It took me a solid day's work to get back to where I was the evening before.
I make this sort of mistake too often. Not as often as I used to, but still too often for my liking. I think it's because I think too far ahead rather than focus 100% on the task at hand until it's done properly. In this case, I was definitely thinking about how close I was to being able to glue up.
Anyway, nobody died or even had to go to hospital (as was the case with a previous mistake I made on these chairs...). I'm not even trying to charge anyone for my time so it's not a big deal but it's really irksome!
The good news, is that I now have two chairs at this stage and another one glued up:
I'd spent a lot of time getting a chair ready to glue up. The process is
- dry assembly,
- check for gaps in joints,
- disassemble and fettle the joints,
- reassemble and check for gaps,
- repeat the above steps until happy (can take several goes),
- disassemble and rout the rebates in the side rails,
- clean up the rebate,
- do the roundovers on the side rails,
- cut the tenons on the side rails to accept the wedges,
- make wedges, and
- do another dry assembly for a final check before glue up.
On the second rail, I inexplicably started shaping the roundover on the bottom!
I carved a great big flat to start the roundover so there was no ignoring it. I had a half-hearted attempt at gluing a piece on but it was never going to work so I had to make a new side-rail from scratch. It's one of the most difficult components because all of the angles (seat rake, seat taper and rear leg tilt) feature! It took me a solid day's work to get back to where I was the evening before.I make this sort of mistake too often. Not as often as I used to, but still too often for my liking. I think it's because I think too far ahead rather than focus 100% on the task at hand until it's done properly. In this case, I was definitely thinking about how close I was to being able to glue up.
Anyway, nobody died or even had to go to hospital (as was the case with a previous mistake I made on these chairs...). I'm not even trying to charge anyone for my time so it's not a big deal but it's really irksome!
The good news, is that I now have two chairs at this stage and another one glued up:
Attachments
Somewhere between steps 4-6 may I suggest you pencil mark top and bottom? perhaps even with cross hatching to indicate the edge to be round over.
And don't forget he, or she, who never made a mistake never made anything
And don't forget he, or she, who never made a mistake never made anything
That's a great shame, but as you managed it, you must be pretty darn good at making chair parts, despite their fiddly angles.
And I like Andy's suggestion.
Also, I find little coloured spot stickers (as shown several times by @Woodbloke ) very helpful for anything with similar or reversible components.
And I like Andy's suggestion.
Also, I find little coloured spot stickers (as shown several times by @Woodbloke ) very helpful for anything with similar or reversible components.
NickM
Old Oak
I've basically finished the proper woodwork on the chairs. The only jobs left to do are to make the seat bases and upholster them (I have a plan for the upholstery - watch this space).
Here they are with two coats of Osmo:
Whilst tidying up the workshop, I took photos of all of the templates:
and the jigs:
Just for fun, I also got out all of the hand tools I think I used:
In terms of power tools, and in the rough order of amount I used them, I think the list is as follows (this ignores jig making):
Here they are with two coats of Osmo:
Whilst tidying up the workshop, I took photos of all of the templates:
and the jigs:
Just for fun, I also got out all of the hand tools I think I used:
In terms of power tools, and in the rough order of amount I used them, I think the list is as follows (this ignores jig making):
- Bandsaw
- Planer/thicknesser (for most components, I always hand planed a face side and edge to get them spot on)
- Cordless circular saw (for cutting up large boards into smaller chunks)
- Domino (for the top and bottom mortises for the back bars and for joining the crest rail to the legs)
- Router table (for rebates in the side front rails, and for mangling the end of my left index finger (now fixed)!)
- Trim router (for rebates in the front legs)
- Bobbin sander for fine tuning the shape of the corner braces
- Pillar drill (for screw holes in the corner braces)
- Cordless hand drill (for pilot holes for corner brace screws)
- Table saw (I think I used it for cutting some components to approx width but mainly as a glue table and as a flat reference for adjusting the legs!)
duke
Old Oak
Your chairs look really nice all lined up Nick.
Cabinetman
Sequoia
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Yes very nice, I was going to tease you by saying they’ve got bigger as you’ve built each one.
A la Father Ted, smaller because they’re further away, sorry.
A la Father Ted, smaller because they’re further away, sorry.
I can’t imagine making one let only six like that. Nice touch with the jigs and hand tools used images.
As these are bound to outlive you and become heirlooms for others I wonder of a small book on how they were made should accompany them.
As these are bound to outlive you and become heirlooms for others I wonder of a small book on how they were made should accompany them.
Agreed. You should at least save this whole thread as a PDF. (There are plenty of ways to do that.)
Dr.Al
Old Oak
Fantastic looking chairs Nick. I really like the style and have thoroughly enjoyed watching the well-documented journey.
AJB Temple
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Top quality work on display there. Very skilled.
fiveeyes
Sapling
Firstly...envious skills, Nick. Top quality.
If a pdf, becomes available, I would like a copy.
Pete Maddex
Old Oak
They are very nice chairs, well done.
Pete
Pete
MattS
Nordic Pine
Amazing work, you should be proud of those.
NickM
Old Oak
I said I had a plan for the upholstery. It wasn't a very clever plan - simply to do it myself!
My wife has been going to a weekly upholstery class for a few years and does proper stuff - horse hair, webbing, springs etc. The plan was that she would upholster the seats for my chairs. I gave her some questions to ask her upholstery teacher so I could understand what layers of material go around the seat which I needed to know to get the gap right. She came back saying that her teacher said I could go to her workshop for a 2 hour lesson on how to do it and I could then do it myself!
The lesson was yesterday and it was great.
This was the starting point:
I'd made up samples of the material layers to try to get the gap right. The goal was to have a firm fit but not too tight (I didn't want to wedge open the joinery!). I made one slight mistake - taking off too much on the back of the left side. Hopefully the material will fill the gap...
Step one is to cut out the foam. My foam is 1.5" thick and it was possible to do it with scissors. Alternatively a bread knife can be used:
It doesn't need to be ultra-accurate.
I stuck that to the wooden base with some spray adhesive. It doesn't need to be fully glued down. It just gives the wood a bit of "grip" to stop the foam moving when you don't want it to.
Then I covered the foam with a layer of Dacron. This can be torn to shape.
Then it's a layer of calico. This should be cut oversize so that you've got spare material to pull on to add the tension needed. This is loosely stapled in place with temporary staples - 3 staples in the middle of the front, then 3 in the back, then 3 in one side and 3 in the other. That was the pattern of working throughout. It keeps everything even (rather like torquing up the bolts on a cylinder head!).
Having a pneumatic stapler is a godsend - I'd say it's essential if you do a lot of this. At home, I'm using an electric one. It gets the job done, but it's not as good as it's harder to be accurate and to do the temporary staples. Temporary staples are fired in at an angle so one side of the staple barely penetrates. That leaves a corner to grab to remove it.
At this point I was being worked so fast I forgot to take photos of what is probably the most important step! (I'll try to take some when I next do this at home.)
You go around the chair removing a temporary staple, tensioning the fabric and restapling (still temporary). The goal is to get the foam in the shape you want. You have to look at the shape and pull and smooth the fabric to get the desired shape. It ends up pretty tight. You should be able to run your hand over it with a bit of pressure and not have a rucker form in the material. As it approaches the shape you want, you can add more staples nearer to the corners, but the corners are left until the end.
When you're happy with the shape, you remove each temporary staple and put a permanent one in. These were spaced about a staple's width apart (versus 1" for the temporary staples).
With the dacron (which is thin), it's possible to get any folds at the corners under the seat rather than on the edge. You tension on the corner (getting the desired shape in the foam) and staple. You then tension in the gap either side and staple, tension in the gap between those staples and so on.
At this point, you should have the final shape of the seat. After checking for any unevenness (bumps or dips), which can be fixed by removing staples and retensioning/de-tensioning, the excess calico can be cut off.
The final material goes on in the same process but it's a bit quicker as you're not trying to change the shape. You're just trying to get the material tight enough and the weave square to the seat.
The corners are harder because the material will be a lot thicker than the calico. It's a case of trying one and seeing how it wants to fold:
One staple is put in the middle, but before the sides are stapled down, you need to remove material to reduce the thickness under the seat.
Then it's a case of putting more staples in. After checking it's all good, the excess material can be cut off and more staples used where fraying edges need holding down.
Eventually, a piece of black material will be stapled on (which the edges folded under) to hide the frayed edge of the top material. I didn't do that because I wanted to leave it "open" so I could remember what to do when doing it by myself.
When I got home, I had a go at another one while it was fresh in my mind. Here are the two finished chairs:
I'm happy with how they look. Also, I can now sit on them properly for the first time and I'm relieved to say that they feel really comfortable! Phew.
I'd highly recommend Antonia Edwards as an upholsterer and teacher. If you want to have a go at this sort of upholstery yourself, or if you have projects you want someone to upholster for you, let me know and I can put you in touch with her. She's based in the Newbury/Hungerford area.
My wife has been going to a weekly upholstery class for a few years and does proper stuff - horse hair, webbing, springs etc. The plan was that she would upholster the seats for my chairs. I gave her some questions to ask her upholstery teacher so I could understand what layers of material go around the seat which I needed to know to get the gap right. She came back saying that her teacher said I could go to her workshop for a 2 hour lesson on how to do it and I could then do it myself!
The lesson was yesterday and it was great.
This was the starting point:
I'd made up samples of the material layers to try to get the gap right. The goal was to have a firm fit but not too tight (I didn't want to wedge open the joinery!). I made one slight mistake - taking off too much on the back of the left side. Hopefully the material will fill the gap...
Step one is to cut out the foam. My foam is 1.5" thick and it was possible to do it with scissors. Alternatively a bread knife can be used:
It doesn't need to be ultra-accurate.
I stuck that to the wooden base with some spray adhesive. It doesn't need to be fully glued down. It just gives the wood a bit of "grip" to stop the foam moving when you don't want it to.
Then I covered the foam with a layer of Dacron. This can be torn to shape.
Then it's a layer of calico. This should be cut oversize so that you've got spare material to pull on to add the tension needed. This is loosely stapled in place with temporary staples - 3 staples in the middle of the front, then 3 in the back, then 3 in one side and 3 in the other. That was the pattern of working throughout. It keeps everything even (rather like torquing up the bolts on a cylinder head!).
Having a pneumatic stapler is a godsend - I'd say it's essential if you do a lot of this. At home, I'm using an electric one. It gets the job done, but it's not as good as it's harder to be accurate and to do the temporary staples. Temporary staples are fired in at an angle so one side of the staple barely penetrates. That leaves a corner to grab to remove it.
At this point I was being worked so fast I forgot to take photos of what is probably the most important step! (I'll try to take some when I next do this at home.)
You go around the chair removing a temporary staple, tensioning the fabric and restapling (still temporary). The goal is to get the foam in the shape you want. You have to look at the shape and pull and smooth the fabric to get the desired shape. It ends up pretty tight. You should be able to run your hand over it with a bit of pressure and not have a rucker form in the material. As it approaches the shape you want, you can add more staples nearer to the corners, but the corners are left until the end.
When you're happy with the shape, you remove each temporary staple and put a permanent one in. These were spaced about a staple's width apart (versus 1" for the temporary staples).
With the dacron (which is thin), it's possible to get any folds at the corners under the seat rather than on the edge. You tension on the corner (getting the desired shape in the foam) and staple. You then tension in the gap either side and staple, tension in the gap between those staples and so on.
At this point, you should have the final shape of the seat. After checking for any unevenness (bumps or dips), which can be fixed by removing staples and retensioning/de-tensioning, the excess calico can be cut off.
The final material goes on in the same process but it's a bit quicker as you're not trying to change the shape. You're just trying to get the material tight enough and the weave square to the seat.
The corners are harder because the material will be a lot thicker than the calico. It's a case of trying one and seeing how it wants to fold:
One staple is put in the middle, but before the sides are stapled down, you need to remove material to reduce the thickness under the seat.
Then it's a case of putting more staples in. After checking it's all good, the excess material can be cut off and more staples used where fraying edges need holding down.
Eventually, a piece of black material will be stapled on (which the edges folded under) to hide the frayed edge of the top material. I didn't do that because I wanted to leave it "open" so I could remember what to do when doing it by myself.
When I got home, I had a go at another one while it was fresh in my mind. Here are the two finished chairs:
I'm happy with how they look. Also, I can now sit on them properly for the first time and I'm relieved to say that they feel really comfortable! Phew.
I'd highly recommend Antonia Edwards as an upholsterer and teacher. If you want to have a go at this sort of upholstery yourself, or if you have projects you want someone to upholster for you, let me know and I can put you in touch with her. She's based in the Newbury/Hungerford area.