• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

A little "Victorian" box from old wood with old tools

With the glue thoroughly dry I turned my efforts to tidying up some of the careless mess I had made :oops: .

First, the outside of the box got planed all round.

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I always like this stage with dovetails - they immediately look neater, especially if you turn the best corner towards the camera and close your eyes.

I also adjusted the top and bottom of the box somewhat - because of my carelessness with initial planing of the parts, it ended up a little bit twisted. Fortunately there was enough wood left to even it up without planing away the joints.

Having done that, I needed to mark a line to saw the lid off. I have quite a few marking gauges but they are very difficult to put a date to, having survived unchanged for so long. Rejecting those that I bought new or with plastic thumbscrews, I chose this one. I guess it's user made - I've seen the cunning cam lock design in several places. (One was in a video of Frank Klausz where he adjusts it so quickly it's hard to see what he's doing.) Unfortunately I know nothing of Mr D.D.Lock or how I acquired his marking gauge, but it's old, it works and it was suitable.

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I didn't want to lose too much wood, so chose a fine-bladed saw, that would sit inside the marked line to give me a straight cut.

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It worked, but I slipped up in several ways. The saw is ok for date but it's got no Bristol connection. It was made by Garlick in about 1890 but sold by a Sheffield tool dealer, George P. Preston, not to be confused with the more famous Edward Preston of Birmingham.

I could have used any of the saws I showed you earlier, but I just picked up the wrong one. From a practical point of view it was far too fine-toothed, so I had to keep clearing the sawdust out. Part way through I switched to a slightly coarser, unmarked saw of unknown date and origin.

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That was much better. Here's the inside view I was looking for

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and here's a bit of roughness that will need to be adjusted

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There followed an indeterminate but enjoyable period of fiddling about fettling the parts so they would sit together reasonably tidily, but this just used tools you have seen already.

Next, it was time to fit the hinges. With the base and lid together in the vice I measured in the same distance from each end and made a little nick across the edges

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I then knifed around the length of the hinges and gauged back for length, then down for thickness.

This is all routine stuff - chopping down, paring across. I like doing this slowly, glad that I'm not on piece work rates.

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I sorted out some suitable brass screws, salvaged from somewhere, plus a matching steel one. I've picked up from other forum members that it's good practice to use a steel screw before a brass one and to wax the threads. In softwood like this there's no need to drill a pilot hole but it makes sense to make an opening with an awl.

The hinges are new. I wonder if I ought to darken them down a bit to look older? Tell me what you think.

I don't have a catch for the outside yet. I checked at our local excellent hardware shop and they don't have anything small enough, so I have sent off for some in a bronze finish.

I realised that, although I have a few old screwdrivers, they are nearly all 20th century. However, I do have one of these, which is probably older, though it stayed in production for quite a long time. It's a multi-tool by Horace Britton of Maine, patented 28 November 1893. Shown here, it's a screwdriver

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and here it's an awl

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You can read the patent here https://www.datamp.org/patents/advance. ... 529&set=12

A bit of a diy gimmick maybe, but it still works.

With a screw in each hinge I could see that I had messed up a bit - I had gauged just the thickness of the hinge leaves, when I should have gone out to the centre of the pin. That won't do!

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It was slightly awkward to gauge a new line just a smidge away, when half the thickness of the box had been removed. The best solution I could see was to use this sort of home made gauge, which is just a screw with the head filed sharp, set in a scrap of wood. You adjust it by turning the screw, and it gives a nice clear line. It almost works like a miniature router if you're lucky.

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But does it count as an old tool? Well, although it doesn't count as Victorian, the wood was definitely old wood that I reclaimed from a skip and I probably salvaged the screw as well. And I'm doing my best!

With the lid adjusted, it looked like this, which is ok for me.

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So I took the hinges off again and did the last stages of cleaning up the box. This was more sanding, plus easing all the edges. Now easing edges is a pretty undemanding sort of job and I could have used several planes, including the nice old Stanley block plane I used earlier on the end grain. But I thought it would be a chance to use a Chariot Plane.

Now, as far as I can find, there's very little written about chariot planes. I think they were a Victorian innovation that got ousted by the many many block plane variants that Stanley unleashed on the world. They sort of overlap with them for what you can do with them - odd little single-handed adjustments.

Like most of them, this one is anonymous, apart from an owner's name and not easy to put a date to.

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Fine for easing edges like this. Here it is dismantled

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and there's a clue there for some of you as to a possible date. ;)

I'll leave it there, as I am up to the maximum number of photos, but the end is in sight quite soon.
 
Andyp":2e0r2ij9 said:
Wouldn’t the world be a better place if tool makers still decorated their offerings with flowers?

Yep!
 
Great stuff, Andy. I love all the detail, and as always, your tool collection is almost as extensive as your tool knowledge. Wonderful.
 
While we all wait patiently for the finish to dry, I had a thought about the nice old combination gauge that I used a few posts ago. This one

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It's a Rabone No 1902. Nice and chunky, very reliable, and the combination square I prefer. Also handy for just marking the same (indeterminate) distance from either side when fitting the hinges

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I realised I didn't know how old it was, or when combination gauges were invented.

Finding out the inventor and first patent holder was easy. It's Laroy Sunderland Starrett and the combination square was the tool that started the Starrett company, in 1880. The Datamp entry for his original 1879 patent is here https://datamp.org/patents/search/advan ... 915&set=34 with links to more information about the firm and its immense success. The patent covers now-familiar features such as the grooved rule and its clamp, and also the spirit level (broken on mine) and easily lost awl.

In the late 19th and early 20th century, innovative USA-made tools like this were imported in increasing numbers - you could probably make a good case that the rise of cheap but well-made American imports was a big factor in the later decline of UK tool making, but disentangling the effects of two world wars etc makes that too big a question for a digression on a woodworking forum.

I looked in old catalogues to see what was the earliest mention I could find of the Starrett No 11 Combination Gauge - or an equivalent - being imported and offered to the up to date Victorian woodworker in GB.

The earliest I have managed to find is in the Charles Nurse catalogue No 12, available here

https://archive.org/details/c-nurse-and ... th-ed-1902

Nurse & Co didn't issue a new catalogue every year and the numbers don't all just match the date, but this one is stated in the text to be from 1902. Here's the page with the combi squares on:

C Nurse and Co Price List 12th Ed 1902_0183.jpg

Queen Victoria died in 1901 but I expect there were imports available while she was still alive to enjoy them. Phew! I'm allowed to use one, though an import would be more definitely period-correct.

So when did Rabone start making their copy?

That's where the trail runs a bit dry. I can't find the exact model in any early catalogue. Nurse were still just offering the Starrett in 1920.

The Marples catalogues from 1928 and 1938 have a special section on rules by Rabone, with a note that they were "Factors of this line in the Home Market only" but they don't include a combination square at all.

The 1935 Buck and Hickman catalogue lists imports by Starrett and Brown & Sharpe in a bewildering range of options, alongside Sheffield made squares from Chesterman (who didn't merge with Rabone until 1963) and Moore & Wright.

The Rabone catalogues available online are either too early to include a combi square or too late to be relevant to a Victorian woodworker.

Next time in Birmingham, I could pop into the excellent Central Library and consult their copy of The First 200 Years; A Short History of Rabone Chesterman Ltd by Douglas J Hallam, published by Rabone Chesterman in 1984. The only copy on Abe books is listed at £92.75, which is a bit more than I would normally spend to answer a question as trivial as this!

So, expecting silence, can anyone help with a date for the first appearance of this nice Birmingham-made tool?
 
Turning away from the tools and back to the box, it was time for the staining. The water-based Van Dyke seems quite forgiving stuff. I just sloshed it on,

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and left it to dry. At first, I thought I'd leave the inside unstained, but various splashes and drips made me change my mind, so I went over the inside and the outside again. It dried pretty quickly even in the cool workshop but I left it till the next day to avoid problems.

This shows it still damp, which is how I hoped it would look. Of course, any finish shows up all the flaws in the surface preparation, so please don't zoom in too close.

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Meanwhile, I decided to improve the hinges a bit. First I cleaned them up a bit with a sponge abrasive block (I know, it's not a Victorian one but if you're not going to beat me up I don't see why I should give myself a hard time!)

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At first, I tried dipping them in some diluted household ammonia. I thought I had done this before, but it made no difference, so I rinsed them off and used some proper patination fluid.

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This worked well, in only a couple of minutes.

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I also brushed on a couple of coats of fairly strong shellac, finishing off with a little pad of rag dipped in. This was easier to manipulate, but the brush was useful for getting into the corners.

When that was all dried and hardened off I used some beeswax polish on some 0000 wire wool, another historical anomaly from the early 20th century apparently, but just the job for this.

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I fitted the patinated hinges with some genuine old dark brass screws and lined the slots up, to avoid a lifetime ban from the forum ;)

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Also, I hoped that the screws would distract from the horrible gaps in the dovetails... Honestly, although I was working "casually" on this project, they must be some of the worst on here. I can do better ones and I have done in the past, honest. Maybe you'll believe me if I claim to be making the point that non-perfect joints can still make a useful, functional object?

Here it is on the outside:

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So now it just needs a catch, which should be here soon.

Meanwhile, having made a utilitarian box for the workshop out of a bit of old skip wood, I need to find something to keep in it. But what would fit? These look handy until something else turns up...

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You see a lot of Rabone combination squares going back to 1901 and 1902. A quick search on eBay or the old tool houses will tell you that. I am looking as I have a part set and need the headstock to make it whole. I am sure I read something going back to 1888 but I cannot find my source for that, so I may be mis-remembering. On mine the rule is not dated whereas the 1901 and 1902 models are dated. That makes me think it is older. It is a No 80/1 but that is just a model number.
 
That's really excellent, Andy. Proper, decent utilitarian woodwork. I like that a lot. And I really, really like the effect the patination fluid had on the hinges. Are they solid brass, or brass plated steel? If they're solid, do you have any idea what effect the patination fluid would have on plated ones?

Oh, and as for lining up screw slots........I think that is an error. Some will be too tight, and some too loose. I'd rather they were done up to the same torque, and the heads finish where they finish. It's a personal opinion, as always, from someone who used to "clock" screws.
 
Peter, the 1902 is definitely a model number, not a date - I'll post a picture from a catalogue later on.

Mike, thanks for the kind words! I don't think this wood is strong enough to over-tourque anything.

The hinges are solid brass. They are just cheap ones from Toolstation, but they don't stick to the same supplier for long.
 
I really like the colour the Van Dyke turned the wood, very very old school.
Screws, a few years ago on one of these sites there was a guy who gave a demonstration on how to get all the screws facing the same way and to the same torque. I thought it was far too much of a faff.
Seem to remember that the holes were drilled all to the same depth, then the screws were put into the holes all facing the same way and forced into the holes using a sash cramp tightened the same amount for each screw. then they were tightened up in the normal way. How they ended up facing along the hinge is lost to my memory.
I said it was a faff! And apologies if it was one of our august members.
 
A thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining WIP Andy. :eusa-clap:

I absolutely loved all the old tools ( I have been described as one on occasions :shock: ). However I do feel you ought to have mede an effort and dressed in the fashion of your avatar. ;)
 
Cabinetman":3fmgwvri said:
WHAT ? I thought that was Andy!
Me to but then I spied some bloke in a modern sweatshirt in one of the photos. No tie either. :eusa-naughty:
 
Lons":10yt0ata said:
Cabinetman":10yt0ata said:
WHAT ? I thought that was Andy!
Me to but then I spied some bloke in a modern sweatshirt in one of the photos. No tie either. :eusa-naughty:

I'm getting a bit ancient now... that young scamp pops in occasionally to give me a hand :D
 
Cabinetman":1hw7ss8x said:
:text-bravo: you certainly do have a good collection of old tools!
I visited Andy and his wife a couple of years ago and a very pleasant experience it was too. To say that he has a ''good collection old tools'' in his 'shop is unquestionably a vast understatement :lol: - Rob
 
Woodbloke":18ulzczw said:
Cabinetman":18ulzczw said:
:text-bravo: you certainly do have a good collection of old tools!
I visited Andy and his wife a couple of years ago and a very pleasant experience it was too. To say that he has a ''good collection old tools'' in his 'shop is unquestionably a vast understatement :lol: - Rob

It's a long long way from Norfumberlandia to Brissle but might just be worth the trip. ;)


I'm getting a bit ancient now... that young scamp pops in occasionally to give me a hand :D

Ah, the apprentice. :D They don't come to work dressed proper these days, we're doomed I tell you.
 
Thanks for sharing this Andy. I feel the urge to go and make something now, it's been too long !

The Van Dyke crystals are pretty good aren't they; I find the finished look somehow more convincing than many artificial stains.
 
Sheffield Tony":un1fe53c said:
Thanks for sharing this Andy. I feel the urge to go and make something now, it's been too long !

The Van Dyke crystals are pretty good aren't they; I find the finished look somehow more convincing than many artificial stains.

Yes, that was my motivation too. I don't need a box at the moment but it was fun to do something very low risk.

I do think the stain is a good partner for the hide glue. The liberal amounts of glue and sawdust mix take up the stain well. I just need to keep the box away from experts!
 
Sheffield Tony":2qzck709 said:
Thanks for sharing this Andy. I feel the urge to go and make something now, it's been too long !

The Van Dyke crystals are pretty good aren't they; I find the finished look somehow more convincing than many artificial stains.

Certainly if you are doing repairs to an old bit of Pine furniture the look is spot on.
 
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