A Sellers bench, help please, then WIP!

[Charlotte]

So, having come back to my folks, been for a hospital appointment, replaced the built in fridge, changed a light fitting, moved their bed, cut through the floorboards, changed the driver and returned full lighting to the kitchen, I'm being allowed to use their space to create my bench!

Time is scarce, I need a knockdownable bench, I don't want to have to go through this process again soon and so I have opted to build the one Paul Sellers demonstrates on YouTube. It is also familiar, it looks just like the ones I was taught on at school by Mike Doyle. In fact, if it is up to standard, I shall call my bench Mike. it seems fitting.

I have a big blue Record for the face vice and a screw for the tail. I know Paul Sellers is not sold on these and truth be told, I've never used one, as a result however, I have grown used to jamming wood between stuff and therefore suspect I will feel quite at home with one. I now remember that there is a vice chop and parallel bars somewhere in my folks garage. I am torn between using the screw with this (in a face-vice-on-the-end-arrangement) or tossing this out and using the screw as basis for a wagon vice. Would appreciate your input.

I have ordered the wood because I need to get this done and they need to cut mine down from 6x2s. Having done some calculations on Seller's design though, it seems to end up 3' wide, this seems huge, although given the central well, is perhaps necessary for supporting work. I want to keep the well, although it would not be hard to persuade me to move it rearward or reduce its size by a board or so

I am working with real wood rather than board. This is scary. I can pocket hole plywood into all sorts of submission but I can't find anything to sharpen blades on lying around and it's a bank holiday! I'm sick to death of scary sharp so if anyone can suggest where I might get a combination oilstone from near Tewkesbury, I would be appreciative!

 

[RogerS]

I'm not sure if Peter Sefton is open this Bank Holiday. He is in Upton-on-Severn. I have a couple of waterstone's virtually brand new that I don't use and which you are welcome to have. I live near Malvern.

I doubt if Tewkesbury Saw is open over the Bank Holiday weekend.

 

[9fingers]

Screwfix and toolsatan both have combi oilstones and are bound to be open all weekend. Even got some for a few quid in a holder/box.

Bob

 

[Charlotte]

I'm on my way back to the boat with curtains (thanks mum!) to feed cats and collect cramps, a saw and marking gauges....Roger, I think I may take you up on that, I emailed Peter yesterday night and suspect he is taking the bank holiday as it is meant to be. If the screwfix stone is the one I think it is, it's hopeless! Will check if they have a norton though.

 

[Rod]

Screwfix etc are definitely open - I got an email.
I use an old school bench which is double sided and measures 30"x60" which is plenty big enough. For years I managed with just a side vice - there are plenty of simple ways of supporting wood just using one of them.

Rod

 

[AndyP]

Work holding on the bench is a matter of personal choice and is relative to the type of work being done on the bench.

I have come to prefer bench dogs with 3 roles of parallel holes on a large flat bench top to hold most of what I need to do. However I do have 2 benches and would not be without the sjobergs bench which has both a face vice and a tail vice. For planing the edges on wide boards the face vice with a holdfast in the leg to hold the far end is often used. I hardly ever use the tail vice.

 

[Charlotte]

Not going to be back to lay the wood out tonight unfortunately

There is a lot of planing involved in the stock preparation prior to gluing up the laminations in the videos. Do you think I can get away without planing the edges that will be rub jointed? I'm collecting par stock from a reputable merchant, they are machining 6x2 down for me, assuming they are straight, surely glue, cramp and get on with the other stuff?!

Glue is a bit of a question mark for me....normally I would leave everything in cramps for 24 hours, ideally with this, I want to retrieve them faster, equally, I want a reasonable open time for when I get it wrong and I need to move things about! I have some pu and some pva although probably not enough of either to finish the job...

 

[AndyP]

If the edges are good and at right angles to the faces then probably. Ideally you want to aim for a sprung joint where there is an ever so slight hollow in the middle of each board that clamping pressure will close up. There should never be a gap between the ends of the boards.
Will you be using any method to help alignment while glueing, dowels or biscuits for example? I have used dowel points to align the holes in the past which for a bench top that will require surface planing anyway should be adequate.

 

[Charlotte]

Andy, I picked up my biscuit joiner thinking similar whilst I was grabbing my clamps - but tbh I've never got to grips with it, it kicks like a trapped octopus and nothing lines up afterwards....was thinking that I might just, errr, trust in fingers and clamps! Do you foresee a problem with this plan?

 

[chataigner]

Andy, I picked up my biscuit joiner thinking similar whilst I was grabbing my clamps - but tbh I've never got to grips with it, it kicks like a trapped octopus and nothing lines up afterwards....was thinking that I might just, errr, trust in fingers and clamps! Do you foresee a problem with this plan?

Yes ! Unless exactly square to the surfaces, the clamps will try to pull the joints out of alignment as you tighten them, it's very difficult to get right. If youve got any spare clamps big enough, you could try clamping across the face of the work (as well as the glue joint of course), so that the clamp jaws are half on one of the pieces and half on the other. It depends on the two being exactly the same thickness to work properly, but is better than nothing.

To level one surface, you could position some offcuts at right angles to the work, then clamp down on to them, (as well as clamping the glue joint of course) but it takes a hell of a lot of clamps.

 

[AndyP]

Sorry for the delay in replying, Sat mornings are a bit hectic here. When edge jointing boards having some kind of locating aid is a must as David has pointed out. However having just re-watched a Paul Sellers videos he is not edge jointing the timber for the top but face jointing 3 x 2s to form the bench top. More detail here
https://paulsellers.com/2012/06/making-your-workbench/
As he is face jointing locating aids are less important but you will see he has to use some gentle persuasion to get the timbers flat.

 

[Charlotte]

Progress!

So, first off, I had to collect the wood. There are 24 lengths of 4x2 on my roof, parking my truck is no fun but I'm grateful for her capacity to haul stuff. It looks like nothing up there!

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My "workshop" here, since my departure, has become a dumping ground for rusty bed springs, garden stuff on sticks, several umbrellas and a filing cabinet. So I did what any sensible daughter would do and move into the dining room. It has a lovely bench on which to build mine.

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How have I got away with doing this? Easy. On Thursday, my folks' bedroom looked like this at lunch time.

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Two sets of lights had failed in the kitchen. I think the rewire was a DIY job, although cable seems to be a real mix of red and black and modern colours. Anyhow, by 5pm, the kitchen lights all worked and their bed was back in position.

That table is about the only thing my mother is sentimental about; it was the kitchen table growing up, minus the leaves, and covered in oil cloth it is where my brother and I played and made. It is somehow fitting that I was able to use it to build on one last time after so many years.

Anyhow. I laid out the boards and decided I wanted a few changes from Paul Sellers' design. This layout is closer to what I had at school and feels more comfortable. I lost a board from the well as I could see no benefit to having such a wide bench.

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The vice chop that I had wondered about using you can see atop the layout. It is too small to be of much use. For now, the plan is to build the leg assembly to allow for fitment of a tail vice. I do not have the time to figure out how this will work at this stage. For a face vice, I have an old Ebay Record that will do the job nicely.

Presently, I have the front of the bench top in clamps.

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As well as both aprons and the well here:

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Unfortunately, that is me done for clamps (I've borrowed 5!) so the legs and rear of the bench top will have to wait until tomorrow.

I think I'm going to have a small gap in the boards on the bench top glue up which is unfortunate. It would have been nice to prep the boards prior to this but the clock ticks on bank holidays. The heel of my hand is not capable of hammering like Paul Sellers is and I didn't have the strength to fiddle boards as I would have liked. As a result, there will be 1-2mm of misalignment. The first job tomorrow after getting the rest of the glue up done will therefore will be to take my electric planer to it.

 

[Wizard9999]

Know exactly what you mean about the Bank Holiday running away with itself!

Looking nice so far, and I love the setting. Hopefully another instalment tomorrow.

Terry.

 

[AndyP]

Well that's a workshop design we have not seen before.

I think you may need more than an electric planer to get the top flat but with patience the end result will be worth it.

 

[Charlotte]

Yes, I feel the crystal glass is an excellent way of distributing the natural light and not at all scary when end for ending a board

More seriously, glueing up on towels is an absolute nightmare.

I have couple of hand planes as well as the electric one, was,only planning on using the electric to get the worst of it out.

 

[Charlotte]

On the one hand, the glue up seems to have gone pretty well;


But not entirely without issue...it's not that I did not foresee this so much as I did not foresee the extent of it.


Perhaps a look to be incorporated into new builds?

 

[DaveL]

Well that towel will be a bit bare in places now, grease proof paper is good as a base for glueing on as it peels off nicely.

 

[AndyP]

But not entirely without issue...it's not that I did not foresee this so much as I did not foresee the extent of it.


Perhaps a look to be incorporated into new builds?

On the underneath of a bench, who cares? I am sure the timber will clean up OK not so sure about the towel though.

 

[Woodbloke]

Well that towel will be a bit bare in places now..

Another good use for a towel though. Douglas Adams would approve :text-bravo: ...don't forget Towel Day next month as well - Rob

 

[Mike G]

Don't put an electric planer anywhere near that, Charlotte. You'll regret it immediately. Plane (hand plane) across the grain......yes, really.......and stop as soon as you have it flat. Don't try to get it smooth. Then swap to a belt sander along the grain to finish it off. Must be at least a 4" sander, otherwise you'll be back to square one. If you really want to, you can always clean up with a scraper afterwards, but don't forget, this isn't furniture. It doesn't need to be beautiful.

 

[Woodbloke]

Don't put an electric planer anywhere near that, Charlotte. You'll regret it immediately. Plane (hand plane) across the grain......yes, really.......and stop as soon as you have it flat. Don't try to get it smooth. Then swap to a belt sander along the grain to finish it off. Must be at least a 4" sander, otherwise you'll be back to square one. If you really want to, you can always clean up with a scraper afterwards, but don't forget, this isn't furniture. It doesn't need to be beautiful.

Agree here with Mike and all I would add is do not, under any circumstances, forget to hook up a good dust extractor to the belt sander - Rob

 

[Charlotte]

Bit late Mike! I didn't exactly come to regret it so much as realise quite quickly I was reaping no benefit. My question to you sir is, why?! I set it to about .2mm and knocked off the edges but created much tear out. I suspected this would happen but had expected to be able to flatten it more than I did/dared. So I swapped for the most ropey no5 ever to be called a plane. It did the donkey work and I finished off with a no7 I bought because the man looking at it said "the wife would like it as a doorstop, I'll give you £25." The ticket on it was £35 and I then carried the damned thing around a boat jumble for hours!

Anyhow....I'm exhausted having planed the slab, the well and both aprons to a term known in Charlyland as "about flat". I want to know more about what "flat" means in attainable wordwork land....it's not cylinder head flat, I can see daylight, but I would need feeler guages to measure how much. This is what I'm calling "about flat"....do I sound like I'm working within the right ball park of tollerances? When I made curtains, I took my measurements to the fabric shop in mm, the nice man smiled and said "madam, we measure fabric to the nearest foot



And the obligatory porn shot


The glue up seems to have mainly gone well, however, I started with the most difficult bit as I often do when I'm aprehensive about something...then everything gets easier! However, to the left hand side of the slab there are a few gaps in the lamination of, not much, but enough to be visible. Is there a way of closing this or am I best just to forget about it and next time, have more clamps on hand?

I had hoped to start the joinery today but instead, have more planing (legs and rear slab) tomorrow. By then, I think it will be time to load the van and head home. I have access to a small morticer at the yard...it's really tempting to do the legs on this...

 

[Mike G]

Bit late Mike! I didn't exactly come to regret it so much as realise quite quickly I was reaping no benefit. My question to you sir is, why?! .........

'Coz they're crappy heaps of junk that are only any use on building sites...

I want to know more about what "flat" means in attainable wordwork land....it's not cylinder head flat, I can see daylight, but I would need feeler guages to measure how much. This is what I'm calling "about flat"....do I sound like I'm working within the right ball park of tollerances? ............

That's way flatter than mine. Never give it another thought. Just make the legs as sturdy as you can, and really well braced. But nothing you ever do on that bench should ever cause it to even wobble a mm.

 

[Woodbloke]

However, to the left hand side of the slab there are a few gaps in the lamination of, not much, but enough to be visible. Is there a way of closing this or am I best just to forget about it and next time, have more clamps on hand?

Now that the slab has been glued, it's almost impossible to close up the gaps. Hindsight being a wondrous thing, what you ought to have done is to use twice as many clamps and glue the sections of the top together one at a time. In that way you'd only have had one glue line to worry about rather than multiple joints. Granted, much longer to do the glue up, but a less gappy outcome. Always better to do a big glue job in smaller 'hits' than attempt to do it all at once.
Looking at the pic again, I'd forget single handed clamps for this sort of job as they won't give you nearly enough pressure where it's needed. They're good for some lighter gluing jobs (I've got a couple of Bessey's) but not for this type of thing - Rob

 

[AndyP]

How is this bench coming along Charlotte? Are you still building it in the dining room or have you moved into the workshop proper yet?

 

[Charlotte]

It's got draw boxes gluing up on it at the moment. The mortices on it are shocking....not sure whether to admit this but when I'm hormonal, I loose all ability to measure! It is, despite this, bulletproof. The vice is poorly aligned at the moment, I need more pairs of hands than I have. It all works though I want to add a tail vice as I am using a router an awful lot at the moment.

I'll post some pics when I have tidied up a bit

 

[9fingers]

HI Charlotte, In the spirit of chasing up loose ends, are you still in need of help getting your pillar drill running on single phase? I've still got this on my odd jobs list but equally happy to delete it if you are fixed up now.

Cheers

Bob

 

[Charlotte]

Hi Bob, I'm sorry, I've been all over the place this summer, things are now settling down

The drill is currently on the floor with the motor removed. I meggered it out and it's dead. My landlord is trying to acquire a replacement but I have 3ph in the shop so it will be re-motored with whatever is lying around that can be had cheap/free. I figure it probably isn't worth rewinding the one I have, although my scrap pile is getting vertiginous until prices do something sensible!

 

[9fingers]

Hi Bob, I'm sorry, I've been all over the place this summer, things are now settling down

The drill is currently on the floor with the motor removed. I meggered it out and it's dead. My landlord is trying to acquire a replacement but I have 3ph in the shop so it will be re-motored with whatever is lying around that can be had cheap/free. I figure it probably isn't worth rewinding the one I have, although my scrap pile is getting vertiginous until prices do something sensible!

Small motor re-winds are quite expensive compared to even a new motor so possibly best to weigh it in unless it has some unique mechanical features - unusual for a drill motor.

Cheers

Bob

 

[tracerman]

Charlotte - I like the chunky solid appearance and hope you end up with the bench you want . I agree that it doesn't need to be beautiful , but it must be functional . In time you may drill holes in it , spill stuff on it , and probably alter it .

On the general subject of benches , I bought a book some time ago on benches , its really a coffee-table book for those seeking inspiration but it helped me to pinpoint what I needed from my own bench .

The Workbench Book
by Scott Landis
( a craftsmans guide from the publishers of Fine Woodworking )
Published by Collins .

ISBN 0-00-412467-7

Steve

 

[Charlotte]

As you can see Tracerman, I've done a pretty good job in spiking glue and drips of paint on it.

Here is the other side of the workshop....it isn't usually quite such a tip but I have been helping a friend move house with my truck and things haven't yet found equilibrium again! I keep hoping the landlord might sort out his 16mm tails as they are irritating and might just get weighed in with the rest of the metal I have soon.

 

[Halo Jones]

Gasp. I've just spotted a new space to store stuff. On top of the bandsaw bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[AndyP]

As you can see Tracerman, I've done a pretty good job in spiking glue and drips of paint on it.

It is a bench doing what is is supposed to. Thanks for the update and the workshop pics. Remember where there is work there is no order.

 

[Phil]

Remember where there is work there is no order.

I presume Sir of you are speaking about yourself? :?
There are some of us who are organised! :lol:
(Just takes longer to stuff sometimes ...................!)

Nice sturdy looking bench.

Cheers
Phil