Adjustable spindle moulder block

[meccarroll]

Hi all looking for an adjustable grooving block for a spindle moulder: 30mm bore needs to be able to do at least 22mm wide groove and 25mm deep.

I have a wobble saw so not looking for an adjustable wobble saw.

Mark

 

[9fingers]

Mark, could you avoid the obvious problem of a curved bottom with a wobble saw on such a wide groove, could you do multiple passes with the wobble saw to a much narrower width?

Just a thought.
Bob

 

[Jonathan]

I have the CMT offering, which does what it's supposed to do.

Similar to this.....

https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-694-021-adj ... 14-28-d-30

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[meccarroll]

Mark, could you avoid the obvious problem of a curved bottom with a wobble saw on such a wide groove, could you do multiple passes with the wobble saw to a much narrower width?

Just a thought.
Bob

That is a possibility Bob but I have four 3.3m x 2.2m (Approximate size) sliding frames to make in the near future so it would be a bit time consuming doing several passes. It's not out of the question though. Thank you for the suggestion as I might try it to see the results.

 

[meccarroll]

I have the CMT offering, which does what it's supposed to do.

Similar to this.....

https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-694-021-adj ... 14-28-d-30

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That looks interesting Jonathan, were you looking to sell or just putting it out there what's available?

 

[Jonathan]

Just putting it out there.

Any specific materials I need for a project get charged to the job and the client pays

If it's for a personal job you could nip round and borrow it, I'm in Andalucía Spain.

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[meccarroll]

Just putting it out there.

If it's for a personal job you could nip round and borrow it, I'm in Andalucía Spain.

As it's a bit chilly hear at the moment I'll take up your offer and nip over so long as you don't mind putting me up for a week or two

The job is for some people I have worked for on several projects almost constantly over the past three years and I charge a day rate for my time. Tooling can be very expensive so just looking at possibilities of saving's if possible.

 

[meccarroll]

Some images of sections of sash sections (Sliding door sections).

 

[Cabinetman]

I have one pretty similar, if you have a spindle moulderI would have thought it was one of the first cutter blocks you would need anyway, and it will last for years so you will recoup your investment easily.
So much better at rebates than a table saw too.
Ian

 

[meccarroll]

I have one pretty similar, if you have a spindle moulderI would have thought it was one of the first cutter blocks you would need anyway, and it will last for years so you will recoup your investment easily.
So much better at rebates than a table saw too.
Ian

Yes have a couple of spindle moulders, one Rojek three horse power and one Kity 623 two horse power with sliding table.

I did a lot of joinery on the smaller Kity with no problem at all but it would probably not be so good at large mouldings and stack work. I have kept it because the sliding table is very handy for cabinet doors with a profile set.

The larger Rojek needs a sliding table fit to it which I have from another machine but it needs adapting to fit as it's not a Rojek sliding table.

 

[Lons]

The job is for some people I have worked for on several projects almost constantly over the past three years and I charge a day rate for my time. Tooling can be very expensive so just looking at possibilities of saving's if possible.

As it's regular work you probably have a good relationship with your customers. Is it worth estimating how much time you might save using the cutter and giving them a choice of whether to pay for the tooling or the extra time if you don't buy it. £175 isn't much when compared against labour and it might well be a cheaper option for them.

It's something I've done a few times in the past either buying or hiring specific equipment and I can't remember a refusal.

 

[meccarroll]

The job is for some people I have worked for on several projects almost constantly over the past three years and I charge a day rate for my time. Tooling can be very expensive so just looking at possibilities of saving's if possible.

As it's regular work you probably have a good relationship with your customers. Is it worth estimating how much time you might save using the cutter and giving them a choice of whether to pay for the tooling or the extra time if you don't buy it. £175 isn't much when compared against labour and it might well be a cheaper option for them.

It's something I've done a few times in the past either buying or hiring specific equipment and I can't remember a refusal.

Yes that's a good way to put it.

When I was asked if I would make the doors (and said yes) I did not know I'd need extra tooling to what I already have I was just thinking another job to do that will keep me earning LoL.

 

[Trevanion]

I've done these doors before a long time ago, if I recall I used an ancient 15mm fixed groover and flipped the door after the first pass so the groove was spot on in the middle. I had plenty of cutters that would achieve the groove width, but not the 44mm depth without fouling the spindle shaft spacers or the block's body, but I managed it with the old fixed groover with the brazed-on carbide blades.

Something along the lines of this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256321187909

 

[meccarroll]

I've done these doors before a long time ago, if I recall I used an ancient 15mm fixed groover and flipped the door after the first pass so the groove was spot on in the middle. I had plenty of cutters that would achieve the groove width, but not the 44mm depth without fouling the spindle shaft spacers or the block's body, but I managed it with the old fixed groover with the brazed-on carbide blades.

Something along the lines of this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256321187909

I have one or two similar to the one on ebay but probably not quite as good.

I suppose that does throw in more options if needed.

What joint did you do at the stile head/bottom rail?

I think it might be better to do twin tenons:

 

[meccarroll]

I did not think about using these until Trevanion mentioned doing his with a fixed cutter. They are a bit scary looking but cut nicely and can be used stacked with spacers.

 

[meccarroll]

This is how I have made joints on sashes mainly because the espag bolt and friction hinges can cut a lot of the sash away so twin joints help to counter that.

 

[Jonathan]

Mark, you remind me of myself in the past doing these types of jobs with 3hp moulders.
I had Whithill make me a bunch of cutters for IV 68 window profiles.
It's hard work and with multiple passes.


I know this is a bit taboo in the UK, but many manufacturers outside of the UK use the dowel joints in that corner joint.
Being British trained I was against dowels, so I made some doweled 68mm corner joints. The big demolition sledgehammer realised how unbelievably strong they are.

Will you be using laminated timber?


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[meccarroll]

Will you be using laminated timber?


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There are actually only two sliding sash/doors and two fixed sashes. There are another two sliding doors later.

I don't think I will be using laminated timber as the fixed sashes will be set in beads so no problem there and the sliding sashes/doors will ride on a bottom track and guided by a top track so effectively held in place horizontally. I think they may possibly flex until in the tracks. I guess the only issue could be bow in the stiles. Maybe I should start another thread to get others view. Mark

 

[Trevanion]

What joint did you do at the stile head/bottom rail?

As I said it was a long time ago, but if I recall I made the top and bottom rail about 50mm more substantial than usual to accommodate the groove, using a single mortice in the top rail and a double mortice in the bottom rail with a large haunch with the first mortice being about 80mm off the bottom and similar at the top.

I bought this groover a while back on eBay which I thought would be ideal for those kinds of jobs as it has nice flush plates, and could also be used with the plates inverted for tenoning. I have no idea who made it as it has no markings on it and I've not seen another before or since, it could even be homemade by a very skilled engineer/woodworker.

 

[meccarroll]

What joint did you do at the stile head/bottom rail?

As I said it was a long time ago, but if I recall I made the top and bottom rail about 50mm more substantial than usual to accommodate the groove, using a single mortice in the top rail and a double mortice in the bottom rail with a large haunch with the first mortice being about 80mm off the bottom and similar at the top.

I bought this groover a while back on eBay which I thought would be ideal for those kinds of jobs as it has nice flush plates, and could also be used with the plates inverted for tenoning. I have no idea who made it as it has no markings on it and I've not seen another before or since, it could even be homemade by a very skilled engineer/woodworker.

Thank you for your input it's interesting that you used more than one tenon per joint on your doors and that you also used a deeper rail to accommodate the ironmongery. Maybe twin tenons would be favourable and I had also thought about a slightly deeper sections but am undecided on that at the moment. Thank you for the pictures too, much appreciated. Mark