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Bench top advice wanted please

C

Craig Salisbury

Nordic Pine
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So I think i may have shown my "worktable" previously. its a 2x4 frame, legs laminated to 4x4, its all a bit ish. it holds my folded up MFT with a router table next to it all in one.

The problem with an MFT is its less than useless for anything involving a hammer or a plane. so i wanted to replace it with a sturdy bench top for the princely sum of cheap. I was going to use scaffold boards as recommended but the place i was looking at turned out not to be as described, so i popped to my local timber merchant and got some 75mm x 225mm redwood, he even lopped it all down to 1200mm lengths for me as thats the width of the bench.

So i have faced, edged, thicknessed, trimmed, domino'd and glued up 3 planks so it will need another piece to bing it to final width.

My question is, whats the best way to add this to the frame? I have 3 more pieces and i will be adding a face vice record 52 1/2. 3 Cross struts? cut to bring it to height?

EDIT: An hour after this i realised that wood movement could be an issue as the boards are flat and not sideways :(

more photos can be arranged

IMG_20231003_114112.jpg
IMG_20231003_114006.jpg

Thanking
 
There are two fundamental questions you need to figure out, without which you might as well have an MFT. There's plenty more that goes into a workbench design, but that's improving on a design and only makes sense once you've made it fit for purpose.

First, when you hammer down on something, how does that force get transmitted to the earth? In your case you've got reasonably solid legs there, so it means that anything that you put between the existing structure and the new top needs to be directly over those legs and provide a solid vertical connection to the top.

Second, planing puts some pretty large lateral forces on the top. How are you going to resist the entire structure racking from side to side? Traditional designs have many different answers to that question, but working in your existing setup this is going to be the tricky one. The most obvious approach is, assuming that (a) the picture is taken from the front of the bench where you'll be standing and (b) you're right handed, to butt the top right up against the higher framework to the left and add a few diagonal braces into the framework.
 
Is the sensible thing not to make that new top the same size as the gap it's sitting in, then have legs to lift it to the same height as the top to the left. Have holes in the bottom of the legs that fit into matching dog holes below which will locate it, then you get the benefit of the strength of the bench below, and the ability to remove it when not required.
 
TrimTheKing":2cnbml0c said:
Is the sensible thing not to make that new top the same size as the gap it's sitting in, then have legs to lift it to the same height as the top to the left. Have holes in the bottom of the legs that fit into matching dog holes below which will locate it, then you get the benefit of the strength of the bench below, and the ability to remove it when not required.
Click to expand...

so the "bench top" is indeed the siz of the gap its going in, i was thinking the same in terms of adding some risers bolted to the lower frame an then connecting to the top with some 14mm unlgued dominos or domino mechanical connectors, im just not sure with wood movement it will pull itself apart. saying that there are tonnes of slab top benches that have lasted more than 5 years.
 
I think you'll be fine mate.

Just thinking on it now I'd mark out dog holes in the corners, centred on a given leg size, you could use cheap 3d printed dogs rather than expensive metal, position the legs on the dogs and square them up, then square the bench top on top of them and screw down. That way you know with certainty that the legs are exactly where they need to be to properly locate.

All depends how likey you are to want to remove it though I guess.
 
TrimTheKing":1omxcs5m said:
I think you'll be fine mate.

Just thinking on it now I'd mark out dog holes in the corners, centred on a given leg size, you could use cheap 3d printed dogs rather than expensive metal, position the legs on the dogs and square them up, then square the bench top on top of them and screw down. That way you know with certainty that the legs are exactly where they need to be to properly locate.

All depends how likey you are to want to remove it though I guess.
Click to expand...

or 4 pieces of Dowel
 
PAC1":36qmqjvw said:
TrimTheKing":36qmqjvw said:
I think you'll be fine mate.

Just thinking on it now I'd mark out dog holes in the corners, centred on a given leg size, you could use cheap 3d printed dogs rather than expensive metal, position the legs on the dogs and square them up, then square the bench top on top of them and screw down. That way you know with certainty that the legs are exactly where they need to be to properly locate.

All depends how likey you are to want to remove it though I guess.
Click to expand...

or 4 pieces of Dowel
Click to expand...
i DO have some 20mm Dowel...but i also have 14mm dominos
 
So progress has been made, Vise should turn up tomorrow hopefully. I added the 3mm shallow drill points for a parf dog layout, but i only intend a row from the Vice and maybe a couple of others like where i put the plane stop.

Im thinking of removing the 3 front coach screws and replacing with 20mm dowel going about 30mm into the supports and possibly removing the rear coach screws and letting it flap in the breeze. it weighs a ton so i doubt its going anywhere. thoughts?

The whole top is flat within about half a mill which is fine, its just a bench and i have no intentions of re-interpreting concorde on it.

IMG_20231004_174517.jpgIMG_20231004_172759.jpg
 
:text-+1:

I've got two of them in-line (for better support when planing wide thin stock). Visible in this photo (although there's no good reason to use them for something like this vs bigger dog holes - it's just the first photo I found with them in):

file.php


I've also set a third one into a little "sticking board" thing for rebating / ploughing.

I got mine from ebay (£30 for four of them). Looks like they've gone up a bit now, but search for "Flush Morticed Bench Stop" on ebay and you should find them.
 
RogerS":27awlr97 said:
Craig, if it's not too late, you might like to think about dropping one or two of these in your bench top. Very hand , especially when planing thin stock. Afraid I can't remember where I got them from.

View attachment 1



Google Image search found this video https://paulsellers.com/2015/03/adding- ... ench-stop/
Click to expand...

Thats a great shout! £10 from axminster! (out of stock)

Ill definitely get a couple as the veritas one can be a little dicey with thinner stock.

I decided to leave in the rear 3 bolts but slot the holes for wood movement, i did replace the fronts with 20mm dowel which came out nice.
 
Dr.Al":1enbqagb said:
:text-+1:

I've got two of them in-line (for better support when planing wide thin stock). Visible in this photo (although there's no good reason to use them for something like this vs bigger dog holes - it's just the first photo I found with them in):

file.php


I've also set a third one into a little "sticking board" thing for rebating / ploughing.

I got mine from ebay (£30 for four of them). Looks like they've gone up a bit now, but search for "Flush Morticed Bench Stop" on ebay and you should find them.
Click to expand...

Gotta love those bevel up smoothers :)

now my only decision is to recess the back jaw of the vise or not :eusa-think:
 
RogerS":2rl0woaq said:
Wonder how easy it is to keep the sawdust out of them so you can easily close them when you need to ?
Click to expand...

One of the many uses for an air compressor :D . I find the ones you & I mentioned above benefit from the occasional air blast to get rid of lodged plane shavings.
 
Dr.Al":29zgmg3t said:
Craig Salisbury":29zgmg3t said:
Andyp":29zgmg3t said:
These look cool but I can’t see them available in UK, nor Europe for that matter


https://www.leevalley.com/en-gb/shop/to ... em=15G1005

A lot easier to fit into the bench
Click to expand...

THATS pretty!
Click to expand...

They do look rather nice, don't they?

They *probably* wouldn't be that hard to make, although cutting all the notches in the top bit could be a bit of a chore
Click to expand...

$60 + $60 shipping, plus whatever customs sticks you with :)

Ill see if banggood has copied it yet, im guessing thats something hard to screw up
 
Well thats me pretty much done apart from plane stops. Fitted the vice, its not the prettiest, but was only £45 from fleabay. ordered a new spring and nut for the QR and some wire brushes to give a little tickle.

I reaslised after i need to replace the freshly installed maple jaw with a beefier one to put a dog into. its not perfect by any stretch, but it is functional which is all i really care about

IMG_20231006_141043.jpg
 
Nicely done Craig, never thought to put a dog in the face of a vice but then I hold down instead of trapping between, interesting. Not sure if the q/r lever has gone back quite in the right place?
 
Cabinetman":2xuki0lz said:
Nicely done Craig, never thought to put a dog in the face of a vice but then I hold down instead of trapping between, interesting. Not sure if the q/r lever has gone back quite in the right place?
Click to expand...

its just for options. the spring and nut on the quick release lever is foobah'd so i have ordered a replacement

Its certainly nice to have something solid with a vice for holding stuff as i have always had the MFT.
 
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