Bog oak box

[MY63]

My son and I are making a bog oak box for a gift, We bought some bog oak from MikeG and he advised that the checks and splits should be repaired with resin and I got some from his supplier.
This is our first resin project. This piece is the lid it has a cup but will flatten out easily with a little pressure.
My first question is do I just fill the cracks with resin or put a thin layer of resin across the top.
Thanks

 

[9fingers]

I think you will need to overfill the cracks and then sand back when cured.
As you have a cup in the piece, I'd improvise a frame to hold it flat during the filling process to avoid the risk of a crack re-opening when you do pull it flat.

That said I've never used resin to fill voids but instead, used epoxy adhesive mixed with various cement pigments simply as I had it to hand but I expect behaviour would be similar.

Bob

 

[sunnybob]

Not my area of expertise here, but I would not pressurise the lid flat, I would fill it with resin and then when cured either plane or sand it flat.

 

[Woodbloke]

My son and I are making a bog oak box for a gift, We bought some bog oak from MikeG and he advised that the checks and splits should be repaired with resin and I got some from his supplier.
This is our first resin project. This piece is the lid it has a cup but will flatten out easily with a little pressure.
My first question is do I just fill the cracks with resin or put a thin layer of resin across the top.
Thanks

I’ve used a fair bit of Bog Oak for various bits n’peices. It’s great stuff but it’s very hard and very dirty and not at all like any oak you‘ve ever used before. I definitely wouldn’t try and flatten it out with pressure as it’s liable to simply crack in half - Rob

 

[MY63]

This is the lid piece it only has a minor cup and can be easliy flattened out by hand with little pressure.
The cracks are not huge which makes it difficult to get any araldite to flow into the gap on the test piece. I have some pouring resin which I am going to try as soon as the dye powder arrives.

2021-07-16_10-26-32 by my0771, on Flickr

My previous boxes have all been veneered or more recently wrapped in leather. I have never had to deal with end grain before.
I would like to ask the best way to fit the lid to the sides of the box. My first thought was to make a frame around the piece, then fit that to the sides.

 

[Malc2098]

Pouring resin sounds like the way forward, similar to the pore filling I've used on my recent ukuleles.

If you can find a silicone bowl scraper, from the likes of Lakeland or the big blue Swedish place, you'll find that's an efficient way of squeegeeing the resin into the grain. Squeegee in both directions along and finally across the grain with the squeegee at an angle.

 

[sunnybob]

You can frame it with more bog oak if you have enough, or a contrasting wood. Depends entirely on your finished plans.
Or, just leave the end grain as is. If you sand the end grain with a much finer grit than the flat top, then it will not stain a different colour.

 

[Woodbloke]

This is the lid piece it only has a minor cup and can be easliy flattened out by hand with little pressure.

My previous boxes have all been veneered or more recently wrapped in leather. I have never had to deal with end grain before.
I would like to ask the best way to fit the lid to the sides of the box. My first thought was to make a frame around the piece, then fit that to the sides.

There’s only a slight bow there, so I’d be inclined to plane it flat rather that try and force it under pressure. The way I use a solid piece for the lid is to use it as a panel, so you’d need to make a groove in the box sides and a rebate all round in the lid.

Axminster do a rather nice little router table which should be just the ticket for this sort of job! :lol: :lol:

Glue the four sides of the box together with the solid lid in place then use a small bearing rebate cutter to make a recess for the base. Clean out the round corners to make them square and pop in a veneered ply base so you now have a completely solid, but hollow box.

You then saw off the lid using a bandsaw (which is the scary bit) and clean up the sawn edges using a large sheet of sandpaper(s) stuck to a dead flat surface (mdf will do). Pass the box and lid across the abrasive and it’s relatively easy to obtain an exact mating fit.

Personally, I wouldn’t bother to fill the cracks as they’re quite small and may disappear when the lid is machined for a rebate - Rob

 

[MY63]

I tought I would post an update on this box.
We did indeed use the little router table from Axminster to plane all of the edges and cut the grooves for the base.
I cut all of the pieces and mitred them, using tape and a band clamp I glued the four pieces together.
When we clamped the lid piece in place it flattened out perfectly, so we glued it in place.
We decided that all of the filling with resin would be done after making the box.
No finish has been applied as we plan to fill the cracks with resin first. I have made the lining panels to allow the tray to be made.
The pictures are reversed for some reason.

 

[Mike G]

That's going to look pretty spectacular when you apply your finish, Michael.

 

[Malc2098]

Looking really nice.

 

[Woodbloke]

That's going to look pretty spectacular when you apply your finish, Michael.

Agreed, that’s going to look very pretty when it’s done - Rob

 

[MY63]

Things have not gone to plan this year, nothing unusual there we are now at the point with this box where we are considering what finish to apply. Not glossy.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[9fingers]

My goto finish is satin PU. a very slight preference tof spirit based diluted 2pt varnish to 1pt white spirit
Or if you prefer waterbased the screwfix no nonsense satin floor varnish brushed out to a thin coat.
Its fast dryijng and you could get 3 coats on in a day allowing for it to dry hard enough for de-nibbing between coats.

Bob

 

[MY63]

Thanks Bob, I dont have a lot of luck with finishing. I usually refer to wax of some description. I did buy some of the finish water based finished you recomended.

2021-12-27_05-47-06 by my0771, on Flickr

Here is the box with its catch and hinges fitted.

 

[MY63]

I mentioned this to my son on whose desk this box is going to live he decided on a wax finish.

2021-12-28_04-18-49 by my0771, on Flickr

2021-12-28_04-17-32 by my0771, on Flickr

Time for the interior.

 

[Malc2098]

Nice.

 

[9fingers]

Thanks Bob, I dont have a lot of luck with finishing. I usually refer to wax of some description. I did buy some of the finish water based finished you recomended.

2021-12-27_05-47-06 by my0771, on Flickr

Here is the box with its catch and hinges fitted.

I was not sure if that photo was with the satin WB PU or raw.
It certainly look great with wax in your later photos but will be less durable I guess.
As you have some of the WBPU mybe try it out on a less critical job and see how you get on. Don't be put off by the milky white appearance in the tin.
Also if you have the 2.5 litre metal tin it will last for ages so I always decant into a plastic ex emulsion container scrupulously washed out with warm water to loosen any dried vinyl which avoid any risk of rust as well as permitting many opening/closing cycles still maintaining a good seal.

Good Luck
Bob

 

[MY63]

Thanks Bob as ever your advice is appreciated. The picture you mentioned was indeed the raw wood with a scraped finish.
My son liked the wax finish so I have started the interior suede.
I did buy the 2.5l tin you reccomended previousley I will decant some into a suitable container.

 

[Mike G]

I'm surprised at the (lack of) colour. I think you would see an astonishing difference if you tried a thinned oil & varnish mix, wiped off and repeated daily for a week.

Here's an excerpt from my bog oak coffee table thread:

I then added a finish so that I could glue without worrying so much about cleaning up the squeeze out:



........

 

[MY63]

Thanks Mike, I have a little bit left and plan to make a small box. Could you be a little more specific about the oil varnish mix or point me to somewhere I can get the detail.
Thanks

 

[Mike G]

Here you go:

This is the finish the legs got:



The bog oak gets the same, but with a dark varnish rather than clear.

This 1:1:1 mixture is brushed on then wiped off after 5 to 10 minutes. That lot will dry overnight and the gluing up of the frame can happen tomorrow. If the legs seem like too much of a contrast to the bog-oak, then I'll rub them back fairly hard and apply the darker finish. Finally, the end of this drawn out build is in sight.

It has to be an oil-based varnish, not a water based one. It can be any oil, but these days I use Osmo to try to use up what I've got left. Slap the mixture on any old how, but you have to wipe it off before it goes tacky, and then leave it to dry for 24 hours. Build up as many coats as you like, but 3 for most things is enough......6 or 7 for a table top.

PS....there's a link to the original in the first "Here" of this post.

 

[Dr.Al]

Another vote for that finish. Mike suggested it to me when I was building my first table and it's great.

 

[MY63]

Thanks I will find the original post and purchase some suitable finish.
My sons box is now finished and is about to move from my desk to his.

2021-12-30_04-32-13 by my0771, on Flickr

It came out ok in the end.

 

[Woodbloke]

It came out ok in the end.

That's slightly better than 'OK'! - Rob

 

[Malc2098]

Really nice.

 

[Lons]

It came out ok in the end.

That's slightly better than 'OK'! - Rob

+1 :eusa-clap:

 

[Woodbloke]

This 1:1:1 mixture is brushed on then wiped off after 5 to 10 minutes. That lot will dry overnight and the gluing up of the frame can happen tomorrow. If the legs seem like too much of a contrast to the bog-oak, then I'll rub them back fairly hard and apply the darker finish. Finally, the end of this drawn out build is in sight.

It has to be an oil-based varnish, not a water based one. It can be any oil, but these days I use Osmo to try to use up what I've got left. Slap the mixture on any old how, but you have to wipe it off before it goes tacky, and then leave it to dry for 24 hours. Build up as many coats as you like, but 3 for most things is enough......6 or 7 for a table top.

I've just made up a small jam jar of this gloop as I had a very small amount of Osmo left in a pot. So it's one part Osmo, one part white spirits and one part part Liberon Finishing Oil (I have three tins of the stuff); stir thoroughly and apply. I've just used a cloth to put on a first thin coat with a couple more tomorrow - Rob

 

[9fingers]

This 1:1:1 mixture is brushed on then wiped off after 5 to 10 minutes. That lot will dry overnight and the gluing up of the frame can happen tomorrow. If the legs seem like too much of a contrast to the bog-oak, then I'll rub them back fairly hard and apply the darker finish. Finally, the end of this drawn out build is in sight.

It has to be an oil-based varnish, not a water based one. It can be any oil, but these days I use Osmo to try to use up what I've got left. Slap the mixture on any old how, but you have to wipe it off before it goes tacky, and then leave it to dry for 24 hours. Build up as many coats as you like, but 3 for most things is enough......6 or 7 for a table top.

I've just made up a small jam jar of this gloop as I had a very small amount of Osmo left in a pot. So it's one part Osmo, one part white spirits and one part part Liberon Finishing Oil (I have three tins of the stuff); stir thoroughly and apply. I've just used a cloth to put on a first thin coat with a couple more tomorrow - Rob

I think these are all essentially variants of "Sam Maloof's Mixture" being 1 part solvents various and 2 parts varnish/oils various
I've used 1part white spirit and 2 parts oil based PU (rustins) very successfully on my lounge furniture projects in the last few years. I've applied by brush and brushed it out to very thin coats with a minimum of 3 coats, de-nibbing and tack clothing in between. I suspect it could have been a little faster drying if I'd wiped off the excess but I got quite adept at watching for any runs when brushing out.

Bob

 

[Woodbloke]

I think these are all essentially variants of "Sam Maloof's Mixture" being 1 part solvents various and 2 parts varnish/oils various
I've used 1part white spirit and 2 parts oil based PU (rustins) very successfully on my lounge furniture projects in the last few years. I've applied by brush and brushed it out to very thin coats with a minimum of 3 coats, de-nibbing and tack clothing in between. I suspect it could have been a little faster drying if I'd wiped off the excess but I got quite adept at watching for any runs when brushing out.

Bob

It's just that I suddenly remembered that I had a very small amount of unused satin Osmo (the final dregs of a tin, probably half and egg cup) so I thought I'd mix up a trial batch and give it a go. The first thin coat on a gash bit of oak is already almost 'touch dry', so it looks promising - Rob

 

[Mike G]

......I think these are all essentially variants of "Sam Maloof's Mixture".....

Yes, indeed. However, I object to it being called Maloof's mixture (Americans do that all the time), on the grounds that it had been in woodworking text books a hundred years before he used it, and had probably been in common use for many years before that.

 

[Dr.Al]

......I think these are all essentially variants of "Sam Maloof's Mixture".....

Yes, indeed. However, I object to it being called Maloof's mixture (Americans do that all the time), on the grounds that it had been in woodworking text books a hundred years before he used it, and had probably been in common use for many years before that.

Well I call it "Mike G's Magic Mix" as I'd never heard of Sam Maloof :lol:

 

[pitch pine]

I am a covert to this too, thanks Mike. I used the same varnish plus any old oil (tung I think) and white spirit and it built up to a lovely even finish. Just stop the coats when it looks right to your taste. Forums are great for learning stuff like this.

 

[Woodbloke]

This is my little trial piece of oak, finished with four thin coats of MMM (Mike's Magic Mixture ), de-nibbled with some worn 600g Abranet and then give a coat of my 'go to' Swedish beeswax:



Seems to be a very pleasant, satin finish which I think I'll use a lot more in the future. As a 'Brucie Bonus', it would appear that the jar doesn't form a skin, which I found intensely irritating with pure Osmo. The jar is a very old one and the previous layers of Osmo can clearly be seen - Rob

 

[Mike G]

.....Seems to be a very pleasant, satin finish .......

I always reckon on the finish being one-down from the level of gloss in the original varnish. So if you use satin varnish in your mix, it will be pretty close to matt, and if, like you did, you use gloss then it will finish satin-ish. If you really want it to be glossy, then do the last coat as gloss varnish and white spirit 50/50.

The very biggest advantage in my view, Rob, is that it is pretty foolproof. It doesn't rely on brushing skill (no "tipping out"), and it doesn't need a perfectly dust-free atmosphere. So for those who have a real-world workshop rather than a separate finishing room, you can tackle this finish without worrying too much.

And yes, you're right, it doesn't skin over in the jar.

 

[PAC1]

It keeps forever as well. I found a 20 year old jar of it in a cupboard. It was fine.
It is excellent for carvings as the last thing you want is a brush full of varnish filling up a detail.

 

[Woodbloke]

... like you did, you use gloss then it will finish satin-ish.

And yes, you're right, it doesn't skin over in the jar.

I don't use gloss Osmo, so this was the last dregs of a satin tin and the finish came out satinish as well, so quite similar to the original Osmo. I also though, gave it a coat of wax over the top. The non-skinning jar is a definite 'plus point' as is the ease of application; slosh it on all over (like the great smell of 'Brute' :lol: ) wipe off the excess and repeat etc - Rob

 

[Mike G]

No it's the varnish gloss level I was talking about Rob. I don't think the oil gloss makes any difference.

 

[PAC1]

... like you did, you use gloss then it will finish satin-ish.

And yes, you're right, it doesn't skin over in the jar.

I don't use gloss Osmo, so this was the last dregs of a satin tin and the finish came out satinish as well, so quite similar to the original Osmo. I also though, gave it a coat of wax over the top. The non-skinning jar is a definite 'plus point' as is the ease of application; slosh it on all over (like the great smell of 'Brute' :lol: ) wipe off the excess and repeat etc - Rob

I would be interested in how the Osmo works. I still use linseed oil so if Osmo works without skinning over in the jar, that would give me more options.