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Cosman 3/4" dovetail saw

AJB Temple

AJB Temple

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Just received mail shots for these. Nice little saws by the look of it. Not silly money either.

I've been trying to make a fine, high quality (Skelton style) saw off and on for the past year. Mike kindly supplied me with some bog oak for the handles. However, the bog oak has not been used in anger yet as so far I have not succeeded in making a blade that is of a high enough standard. Three attempts discarded so far. I fitted temporary plain oak handles, but am having great difficulty getting the aesthetics right on the saw itself, as whether I use a folded brass or stainless steel or blued steel spine, it always looks amateurish and feels wrong.

I am making from scratch - not taking an old saw and fixing it up.

Anyway, I digress. Cosman fine quality saw for £180 seems OK in the scheme of things for hand made saws.
 
It is intended for doing very fine, small joints Tony. A lot of tpi, with extra at the starter end and quite a narrow set. I used to use such a saw for cutting fret slots in guitar necks (but mine blunted really easily from use in ebony, and had an unsuitable handle like a "Gentleman's saw". Still got it, though not used for years.
 
Just looked it up. IMHO he can keep it, with it's resin (AKA plastic) handle and slotted (rather than properly folded) back.
 
Didn't realise the back was slotted. Can't work properly then as the back is supposed to spring a bit.
 
I have one similar Rob, brought in from Japan on my last visit. With spare blades. Very good indeed. Though I need to get some glue off mine after cutting something I thought was dry, but wasn't.

Alf my understanding is the folded back is supposed to have enough flex to hold the blade tight. Hence I used the word spring. I don't mean the back flexes. However, these attempts are my first ever go at making a saw of any kind, so I have no knowledge apart from trying to make one. To make a fold, with just home gear, is surprisingly difficult to do a neat job. I am trying to do a similar high finish (with metal chamfers etc) as the Skelton Mallard. It's one hundred percent for my own amusement as I have plenty of good workmanlike saws. I would like to make a metal dovetailed plane one day, but that is miles above my skill level currently.

I've tried to make backs in stainless (right mess), some blued steel (heated in home forge - was nowhere near straight) and brass. Brass was ok but I introduced too many hammer marks and when I took the sacrificial blade out (to maintain the grip) the brass back took on some slight twist for some unknown reason. My brother would have done this easy peasy, but he can't really communicate now.
 
Ah, right, I see what you're getting at. Slotted backs are perfectly capable of doing the job, though. Indeed, it appears that "Mallard" utilises one. I suspect if you want to make a folded back you're going to have to invest in, or construct, a pretty hefty brake, which in part explains why so many modern small makers opt for slotted backs. Having watched the growing pains of several saw makers on fora over the years, I have to say I think you'd be better off starting with the infill plane for a lower degree of difficulty. :D
 
This, echoes what we were taught in a Sheffield school many moons ago:

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/retension-a-backsaw.php

The picture at the top is a good illustration. You see saws with a taper to the plate on eBay, and we have become used to seeing it to the extent that some of the makers of slotted back saws build them that way - but it probably never was the intention.
 
Indeed Alf. My biggest problem with stuff like this is perfectionist tendencies coupled with lack of both talent and knowledge. In truth I did think it would be easier than this. The blade is fine, teeth are fine, handle is fine (even a fancy one) but a homemade folded back is challenging.

Thanks for the link Tony.

This is a project that I do in dribs and drabs. I'm just getting ready to lay a stone floor so that and making doors yet again is my focus right now.
 
slotted saws are OK - they're easier to get right (it's just machining stuff and throwing it together) than a bent back saw, which requires brass that won't crack and maybe annealing while bending the backs in a brake.

I think most of the nuance with making eternal tools is dead (as in, a tool that can be adjusted until it's completely used).

Cosman shows his making method , it's manufacturing more than it is a hawley-like art. Long story short, he's looking to make saws and sell them, and like blue spruce chisels, the process needs to suit employees and make money.

can still make a good saw, though, and easier than a bent back.

Less clear is the need for a short plate, but that's your business and I always hated it when I wanted to make something and 9 of 10 answers were "you don't need it".

As far as the making part and perfectionism - give yourself the freedom to do two things:
1) visualize what you want to make and how you want to make it. If you're guessing at that when the tools start to move, the outcome will be bad
2) assume that the first one will be no good, or will be mediocre, finish it regardless, and take what you learn to make a better second one

Too much is made out like skill is making one thing and coming up with great results. It holds up making, and more making makes the first one better the next time (whatever the next thing is), and visualizing how to make the next thing easier.
 
Thank you DW. I am not trying to replicate a Cosman saw. I just posted that up out of interest.

I have taken some inspiration from the Skelton saws and as this is just for my amusement I regard aesthetics as just as important as functionality. (I've got plenty of good saws for what I need). I've been playing around a bit with my experimentation so far. That includes making a special purpose luthiery small scale saw for certain tasks in violin making.
 
During the 1960s/70s I managed with a Spear and Jackson, so-called dovetail saw. Brass backed, about ten inches long with 15 TPI and an abomination for a handle! It was nowt special; just a smaller version of the tenon saw. Still, I developed whatever skill I have with that saw.

When better days arrived I bought a Wenzloff dovetail saw, with a custom sculpted walnut handle. It is a beautiful saw and it's a dream to use. However, I can't say a lay person would notice the difference in my joints. I think there was a difference, but the main advantage was in using a well balanced, lighter saw, which tracked like a dream. Someone sold me a Lie Nielsen too, which I do use, but if the Nielsen is a Jensen, then to me the Wenzloff is a Ferrari! There's just something about the tool.

I think I should go into the shop, and get used to 'er again! :eusa-whistle:

Regards John
 
I had to look Wenzloff saws up. If it's getting no use, feel free to send it to me: I can guarantee a loving home :D
 
Hi Adrian.

I fully understand your thinking. However, my tools are not idle because of any lack of interest. Without wishing to drip over everyone, I was dragged from the shop by domestic matters. My wife's illness being the main reason. Caring for her was the first priority so woodwork was kept in the background. Then I had most of 2019 in hospital myself, and 6 month's rehabilitation, to get back on my feet. So again, no woodwork.

My Lady is in full care now, and having learned to live with that, I am getting back into things; for instance I spent most of the weekend sharpening my planes and chisels. I am so glad I don't have any problems with rust!

I am still not fully fit, but standing at the bench isn't a real problem, as long as I can lean against it! Moving around the shop is dicey, but so far I've managed. So I shall be keeping the saw; (As if you couldn't have guessed!) :eusa-whistle: Still, I can't knock you for trying! :D

Cheers Adrian

John :obscene-drinkingcheers:
 
Sounds like you have had a really tough time John. You have my sympathies. Good luck with getting back into sawdust production. Adrian
 
AJB Temple":3gpxwn71 said:
Sounds like you have had a really tough time John. You have my sympathies. Good luck with getting back into sawdust production. Adrian
Click to expand...

:text-+1: - Rob
 
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