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Dead LED panel driver

T

TrimTheKing

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Hi chaps

I’ve got a deal LED panel driver so looking for some help on the replacement.

This is what’s dead...

a2c63b637d5cfa5bb4de49ebb561db63.jpg


355e1af076dd3fe539616da237584062.jpg


8718cf1db9509d8273d9aa5a569a69e9.jpg


This looks similar and good price, what thinks you?


https://www.ledkia.com/uk/buy-standard- ... lsrc=aw.ds

Thinking whatever I get I’ll buy a couple so I’ve got spares in stock.
 
Depends how pushed the old driver was. Prvious was 1.2amp at 42v this one is 1amp@50v. It should work but you maybe pushing it a bit harder so shorter life.

I'd buy 1 first to make sire it all works.
 
It has a different power rating and a lower operating current which might mean you have a dimmer panel.

New one 40watts 1amp vs old one 50watts 1.2A+/- 5%

It is so disappointing but the same old same old that these modern lighting systems are rarely let down by the LEDs themselves but by the power conversion unit that has to deal with the fundamentals of LEDS (individually) needing 1.5 -3 volts DC to operate them and our mains being 240v AC and has to retail for a few quid.

Bob
 
Yep, been there and still visiting.

One of my drivers only works if the temperature is below 5C in the shop!

But I still say that are excellent lighting for a workshop.
 
Okay I’ll look for a more powerful one.

They don’t get drivers too hard right now but will do more as I do more to get the workshop fully functioning.
 
The item you link to should be ok as it's constant current is adjustable so you should be able to match the light output with you other panels. Don't just turn up to maximum smoke, pay heed to the max current the panel can take.
The downside is no mention of warranty and even if there is one, it is a stock clearance so highly likely to be end of line or just possibly a known trouble maker to them. No reviews either.
The previous one had 5 years warranty.
Caveat emptor

The one in the picture is totally wrong for the application. it is AC output, too low voltage and not constant current :shock:

Bob
 
Mark...I'm sure I've got some spare drivers lurking around that you're welcome to. What spec are you after ?
 
RogerS":1ycqcd5k said:
Mark...I'm sure I've got some spare drivers lurking around that you're welcome to. What spec are you after ?
Click to expand...

Hi Roger

When you say what spec...?

The one in the pic is what came with the panels but if you need the panel spec I’ll need to see if I can dig out the sheet that came with it.
 
TrimTheKing":17ljvriw said:
RogerS":17ljvriw said:
Mark...I'm sure I've got some spare drivers lurking around that you're welcome to. What spec are you after ?
Click to expand...

Hi Roger

When you say what spec...?

The one in the pic is what came with the panels but if you need the panel spec I’ll need to see if I can dig out the sheet that came with it.
Click to expand...

Hi Mark...my bad. Playing catch-up. Will have a look tomorrow.
 
Find the panel data mark. Or look on the back of a panel. Piccies please
 
Doesnt tell you much useful does it?

Anyways lets assume ita tha maxium so 48w at 42v is 1.1amps. So your previous driver was worked hard.

So you need a driver that will give you 42v and 1.2 amps minimum im afraid (power factor of 95).
The one you suggested cant do that. It wont dim it will flash on and off.
 
I can't tell how hard or otherwise that driver was worked.
Agreed that data sheet aint that helpful about the electrical needs of the panel itself.
The driver is specced at 1.150 amps and this should be a constant current output, what we dont know is the the effective resistance of the panel when lit and up to temperature so we can tell the voltage on the driver and hence how hard it is working.
If the panel output of 48w is to believed, then yes the foward voltage will have to be around 42v and working fairly hard.
Generally speaking the weakest component in the driver is the high voltage capacitor immediately after the mains input rectifier and the stress on that is possibly peak mains voltage at the operating temperature of the driver and the ripple current when the output is at 1.15 amps.

@Mark, do your existing drivers run warm, hot or ouch! Maybe one thing to look at on replacements is physical size. Bigger= more surface area to lose waste heat and drop the operating temperature.

I think if I ever go the led route in my shop I will look into a step down of the mains input voltage with an auto transformer to be as kind to the drivers as possible. I'm currently on high frequency ballasted fluorescent tubes and still a good stock of replacement tubes in the loft.
Bob
 
Just powered them up now but from checking in the past memory says they are barely above room temp when running.

I’ll confirm back in a couple of hours when they’ve been running that long.
 
Hi Mark...checked my 'stock' but nothing useful, I'm afraid.
 
TrimTheKing":djkui7fm said:
Based on what you lads are saying this one should be okay shouldn't it? Or am I missing something?

Does the fact this one can put out 72W mean it is too powerful?

https://www.ledkia.com/uk/buy-standard- ... lsrc=aw.ds
Click to expand...


My understanding is that these drivers should be constant current and so allow the voltage to vary according to the panel. The data sheet stresses constant voltage and yet specifies a range so is written by someone who does not understand and wanting it to sound good :D

Before seeing the data sheet I'd agree that this should have some power margin and the current output matches your panel.

I'd be tempted to try the one I linked to that specifically says for use with your panel.

Bob
 
Cheers chaps. That’s what was confusing me, the constant current specified then a range shown...!

I’ll have a look at the links you’ve shared, after I’ve watched the second half of United...
 
TrimTheKing":3qbbascd said:
Cheers chaps. That’s what was confusing me, the constant current specified then a range shown...!

I’ll have a look at the links you’ve shared, after I’ve watched the second half of United...
Click to expand...

Think of your panel as a resistor R that varies a bit from panel to panel and a bit with temperature, phase of the moon etc.

The voltage V across the panel with a current I is given by I*R ohms law

The power supplied by the driver will be V*I = I*I*R and depending on the leds in the panel, a certain amount of light will be output.
By using a constant current, the driver can keep its efficiency up even though the panels vary a little bit.
Our eyes with their logarithmic response will hardly notice the variation from panel to panel.

If you have a driver with a higher voltage capability, it makes no difference provided the constant current is the same and the power is still given by I*I*R ie nougth to do with the voltage that the driver could produce with a different size panel with a higher R.

Does that help?

Bob
 
9fingers":9joauoxt said:
https://www.qvsdirect.com/lighting-lamps/lamps-accessories/drivers-transformers might have something but website down atm
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTDR50.html bit pricey but reputable company ime

This lot https://panelhut.co.uk/products/40w-48w ... 9_EALw_wcB
specifically say replacement for your panels.

Bob
Click to expand...

Ordered and received one of the bottom ones specified for this panel. Plugged in and seems to be working fine. Will keep you appraised.

Thanks for all the help chaps.
 
I've often been critical about the reliability of LED lighting or explicitly the driving circuitry.

I recently stumbled upon this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4


The presenter is a bit rambling as is his wont but it seems that Philips have been doing some excellent work to get the reliability of the drivers up and at the same time using many more leds allowing them to be run at much lower power per led thus dropping the heat dissipation in both leds and the driver.
Some of the detailed nuances are possibly only for those of a certain interest in electronics but I'm very impressed with what they have done. If the techniques can be licenced outside of Dubai we might at last see some reliable longlife led lighting at even greater efficiency.

Bob
 
Oi, Big Clive is a legend, leave him alone. :lol:

lighting technician with a real passion for electronics and an all round nice bloke by all accounts, knows his onions too.

It's a good explanation of solutions to fix the problems. Cheers for posting.

on that note, one of my strip LED lights in the workshop went pop on Tuesday night, need to get it apart and see why it happened although I'm fairly sure it's moisture ingress. joys of chained strips, I took it out, slid the next one along to fill the gap and join with the one before it and was back to working albeit with a dark spot over my shoulder. :D
 
novocaine":37kt64zs said:
Oi, Big Clive is a legend, leave him alone. :lol:

lighting technician with a real passion for electronics and an all round nice bloke by all accounts, knows his onions too.

It's a good explanation of solutions to fix the problems. Cheers for posting.

on that note, one of my strip LED lights in the workshop went pop on Tuesday night, need to get it apart and see why it happened although I'm fairly sure it's moisture ingress. joys of chained strips, I took it out, slid the next one along to fill the gap and join with the one before it and was back to working albeit with a dark spot over my shoulder. :D
Click to expand...

Yes I quite like Big Clive's stuff although it can be a bit laboured. I watch and keep saying to myself "FFS get on with it" but keep watching nevertheless :lol:
Not sure why he kept muttering about voltage multipliers in this vid. I'd have thought that the last thing you want to do in a led driver is to increase the voltage other than keeping the same LED topology and just changing the driver for 110v countries.

The only led light I have at the moment is a fluorescent drop-in replacement type bi-pin tube.
I've still got a stash of part used conventional tubes in the loft harvested from a laboratory where I used to work and I got permission to go in the day before demolision of the building and strip out metal clad MK sockets, tubes, conduit and wiring. I possibly have a lifetimes (for me!) supply.

I did have a RGB led strip fail that is part of our xmas decorations and that was caused by soldered joints made by the supplier. A pig to fix as the strip with only pcb type tracks is encapsulated in heavy duty silicone.

Bob
 
Can someone recommend a supplier and some led lights from my new workshop please?

I have two 600 x 600 led panels that need transferring from the old shop, but I got those from toolstation and suspect they are not the cheapest place.

I fancy led strip lights as general lighting with the panels strategely placed. But am bewildered as they appear to be relatively pricey vs the panels even at toolstation prices.
 
If you want to go the LED route then expect a degree of failure has to be the message.
Two members here (at least) have found this.

If it were as cut and dried as "buy model ABC from supplier DEF" then it would be obvious. If there is a hint from the video I posted, there is a manufacturer striving to address the technical issues but It has taken a joint venture with the ruler of Dubai to get this far. Most products are flogging the leds and drivers close to the limit hence the regularity of failures.

I'd be choosing first a supplier with long warranty and a reputation of honouring them - a bit like an "Axminster" but for lighting, followed by make/features/price to taste.
Unless you will be running the lights all day, day after day then expect capital cost + replacements plus running costs to be more than you hoped.

I've toyed with converting to LEDS and if I do I'd will be running them from a reduced mains voltage which is easy for me as an electronic engineer but less so for others and or waiting for the phillips type designs to become widely deployed.
Running cost for me is unimportant as being an early adopter of renewable energy, my total energy bill is negative averaged over the year but I realise not everyone is that fortunate.

Bob
 
I took the other approach, I know they will fail, I know it doesn't really matter how much I spent, they will fail.
so I bought cheap and cheerful and in sufficient stock that when one dies it can be replaced.

the ones in the workshop, I bought 6, I'm now down to 3, all 6 were installed as I wanted lights in specific places. not bad for 6 years and a cost I consider as acceptable (would need to look but don't think they were more than a tenner a light).
 
novocaine":1508mvp5 said:
I took the other approach, I know they will fail, I know it doesn't really matter how much I spent, they will fail.
so I bought cheap and cheerful and in sufficient stock that when one dies it can be replaced.

The ones in the workshop, I bought 6, I'm now down to 3, all 6 were installed as I wanted lights in specific places. not bad for 6 years and a cost I consider as acceptable (would need to look but don't think they were more than a tenner a light).
Click to expand...

That is probably a good approach Dave. Treat them as consumables. After all, we accept light bulb failure and fluorescent tube failure as part of life.
You did well at a tenner per light though espcially 6 years ago when these things were in their infancy and starting to be trendy!

Bob
 
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