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Diminished (gunstock) stile door

Planeiron

New Shoots
Joined
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Location
Co. Down
Name
Dave
LOCATION
Co. Down
In the process of making a diminshed stile door and learning along the way so this one unlikely to be a quick build. Is being made from oak and will be approx 920 x 2040 mm so will be a beast to lift and not looking forward to moving it into place whenever that will be. So amongst other things in life I've cut the through tenons for the bottom and middle rails and will through tenon the top when the diminished bit is cut or cut close to finished width. Was hoping to do more this week but it's alsolutely baltic in the garage at the moment. Progress so far:

mortise guide.jpgmortises.jpg
 
Can I ask if you did all the morticing by hand or with some help from a morticer?
 
This door is all done by hand with the tools in the picture above. For the larger through mortices like this I just make a guide to suit the position. This guide is onto its fifth door now. Each mortice does take longer than I think.
 
Managed to clean up one stile down to the knife marks. Below is how I achieved this. This certainly isn't the way to do things if you're running a business but if you're only making one of these and have limited tools, it's an option.

Just noticed but a nice tidy workbench and area would've been good. Anyway, I pared and planed off a lot of the waste and got close to my marks. Problem with the bench plane is that it will only get so close to the transition area and planing the downward slope isn't an option yet for the same reason. PXL_20260109_102600320.jpg

I got close to my knife marks at the transition area. Need to ensure when paring not to lift up that grain to the right of the vertical pencil line (other lines are knife marks)

PXL_20260109_135234420.jpg

I put a light score on the top to sever the fibres and prevent lifting beyond the transition
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I clamped a guide to the piece in line with the knife marks are started paring down to the final level
PXL_20260109_135500684.jpg

Pared across from both sides to the middle
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Once there's enough removed then the plane makes short work of the rest
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I protected the transition from the toe of the plane but if you go slow, keep the sole oiled, the iron sharp and the set shallow you won't overshoot
PXL_20260109_141010168.jpg

Working on the diminished area, I square a line over the wide part and work to that line with the plane. As the narrower mark of the diminishment is pared to the final line by the chisel already, this is a relatively quick and easy part of the process. Here's the line I mean just below the lower mortise.
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And here it is finished:
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Managed to clean up one stile down to the knife marks. Below is how I achieved this. This certainly isn't the way to do things if you're running a business but if you're only making one of these and have limited tools, it's an option.

Just noticed but a nice tidy workbench and area would've been good. Anyway, I pared and planed off a lot of the waste and got close to my marks. Problem with the bench plane is that it will only get so close to the transition area and planing the downward slope isn't an option yet for the same reason. View attachment 38292

I got close to my knife marks at the transition area. Need to ensure when paring not to lift up that grain to the right of the vertical pencil line (other lines are knife marks)

View attachment 38293

I put a light score on the top to sever the fibres and prevent lifting beyond the transition
View attachment 38294

I clamped a guide to the piece in line with the knife marks are started paring down to the final level
View attachment 38296

Pared across from both sides to the middle
View attachment 38298

Once there's enough removed then the plane makes short work of the rest
View attachment 38299

I protected the transition from the toe of the plane but if you go slow, keep the sole oiled, the iron sharp and the set shallow you won't overshoot
View attachment 38297

Working on the diminished area, I square a line over the wide part and work to that line with the plane. As the narrower mark of the diminishment is pared to the final line by the chisel already, this is a relatively quick and easy part of the process. Here's the line I mean just below the lower mortise.
View attachment 38300

And here it is finished:
View attachment 38301View attachment 38302View attachment 38303View attachment 38304
All lovely neat and tidy. Just don’t forget I offered you the massive cheat of ripping the stiles in two.
And I don’t blame you at all for not using it!
 
Been away for a while and doing other things but managed to find some more time for the door. Needed to chop out the top mortise for the head rail. For anyone new to this, I use a guide for deep or through mortises and chop about halfway through both sides hopefully meeting nice and square on the middle. I use a sharpie mark on the chisel as the depth gauge - hi tech stuff
PXL_20260130_175917932.jpg

I don't chop to the edges of the the mortise until the bulk of waste is removed. This way you can lever out waste without marring the finished edges of the mortise. The knife mark just behind the chisel is where the finished mortise wall will be.


PXL_20260130_120620759.jpg

Finish with the walls. The guide is a good way to ensure the chisel is square to the stuff.

PXL_20260130_180418077.jpg

Your biggest chisel is perfect to clean out and ensure the side walls are flat:

PXL_20260130_182428407.jpg

Mark off the position of the tenons from the mortises cut:

PXL_20260125_155818651.jpg

Make sure all is square before final marking:

PXL_20260125_155914643.jpg

Mark with a knife point. I can't see the marks unless I put a little pencil chevron. It's nice because if you make a mistake the tiny mark just looks like the grain:

PXL_20260125_160114839.jpg

Bottom rail is easy and a bandsaw is useful to get the sides of the tenons but remember to stop before the haunch. I cut right to the line with the bandsaw for the sides but this is the only time I would do this:


PXL_20260114_204324093.jpg

Cut out the sides:
PXL_20260114_204334329.jpg

Cut out the middle:

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Pare down the sides to the mark made earlier with the mortise gauge:

PXL_20260114_132115871.jpg
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Another way to do a wide tenon with a router plane is in 2 parts otherwise the plane can tip a little when reaching out

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Diminishing rail portion overall is more problematic. I used my gauge to get in the ballpark but didn't entirely trust it. Best use the already cut stile. Get reasonably close:

PXL_20260127_204016124.jpg

Then closer still. Nudge the rail until square and look for gaps. I chose the bottom of this rail as the critical dimension so I deliberately overestimated the angle. When square you just take the measurement of the gap off the opposite side:

PXL_20260201_112957974.jpg
 

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Here's the gap in close up:

PXL_20260201_112932314.jpg


And here's after adjustment:

PXL_20260201_115649151.jpg

Bottom rail:

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If I ever find an excuse to make one of these I'm coming back here for the method. Lovely detailed instructions and perfectly fitted joints.
 
The top rail has a gentle enough arc so I scored the rebate with a guage fitted with a blade (sharpened drill bit) and cut the waste with a router. A powered router would cut in a flash but this was nice quiet gentle work: took about 40 minutes. First couple of pics were a test piece.
PXL_20260207_172935703.jpg
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Middle rail was a lot quicker. Used a stanley combination plane for the groove near to my line, then chiselled out most of the waste and then just chiselled to the final lines. Could also use a plough plane but fancied the chisel work.

PXL_20260211_102003171.jpg

Knocked everything together to check the depth for the stiles as this isn't the reference face and the stiles are still a little thicker.
PXL_20260211_134542769.jpg
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There'll be muntins: the majority will be straight but the top horizontal one will match the arc of the top rail. It's fairly gentle so although there'll be some short grain I was thinking of cutting the curve out of a straight piece rather than trying to bend a piece to the shape. Any strong opinions for either?
 

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It's always nice to read things like that: (paraphrasing) there are quicker ways of doing this but I thought I'd enjoy it this way more. That really clicks with me - it's nice to be able to do something the way that you'll find satisfying rather than whatever's most efficient.

Top job; I'm really enjoying this thread. I don't have enough experience to have any opinions on the curve creation I'm afraid. No doubt someone else will be along shortly!
 
I'm also slightly scared about hurting myself with power tools. With the best will in the world accidents happen and I'd rather face the business end of a handtool versus a powertool. My one concession is my bandsaw as I got sick of ripping huge pieces with a saw. However, in the past, in a moment of absentmindedness I mashed the very tip of a finger with the moving blade. Hard lesson but never forgotten. Hopefully MikeG's mishap was just a piece of wood.
 
There'll be muntins: the majority will be straight but the top horizontal one will match the arc of the top rail. It's fairly gentle so although there'll be some short grain I was thinking of cutting the curve out of a straight piece rather than trying to bend a piece to the shape. Any strong opinions for either?

I've no experience of making straight muntins, let alone curved ones, but I've had a look in a few places that I thought might help. But first off, I wonder if you mean "muntins" - as far as I know that word is used for a vertical divider. Something of similar, structural size going horizontally could be a transom. They would divide up individual "lights" within a bigger window. Subdivisions within a light would all be called glazing bars. So, I assume we are discussing a horizontal glazing bar.

I was scratching my head wondering where I have even seen glazing bars that are not straight. The few books I have that cover windows or glazed doors with any sort of internal divisions all have straight bars, not curved ones. It's understandable, given the level of expensive complexity those curves bring, for the joiner and for the glazier.

Of the few modern books I have that show any curved work at all, only one has anything with curved glazing bars. That is "Carpentry and Joinery (Advanced)" by Alfred and Thomas Bridgwood, 1952. It shows how to make a door and frame, curved on plan, with a semicircular fanlight above.

Just to show that such work used to be done, here's a local example of something similar that I rather like.

IMG_20260204_112318577_HDR.jpg

IMG_20260204_112008249_HDR.jpg

It was built in Bristol as the Talbot Hotel in 1873 and later absorbed into the adjacent Courage Brewery as offices. Bombed in WW2, it lost its upper storeys but has since been impressively rebuilt. You can see that the pair of doors are curved on plan, with a semicircular window above. The current window is glazed with lead cames, but an older photo seems to show a window which tilted open for ventilation.
It's nice to see that the bricklayers rose to the challenge alongside their colleagues and made the transition from round to pointed so skilfully, but I digress...

Anyway, the Bridgwood book has 25 pages of dense description and geometric diagrams describing how to work out and cut the weird curves required and then join them all together. I won't reproduce them all here - I just like it as an example of how demanding such work really was and how it deserves our admiration.

The authors don't leave themselves much space to describe making the curved glazing bars. They do say that the "cot bar" (ie the little semicircle at the bottom of a fanlight) should be built up out of three thin strips, steamed and bent around a drum, then glued together and rebated and moulded afterwards. For the lesser curves on the radiating bars, they seem to imply that they would be cut from the solid.

Cassell's Carpentry and Joinery, 1907, edited by Paul Hasluck and available here - https://archive.org/details/cassellscarpentr00hasl/page/n9/mode/2up - has something similar in the frontispiece and in the text:

IMG_20260215_134717919.jpg

and refers very briefly to making up the curved glazing bars from three strips laminated together.

Personally, I think one big piece of glass would be ideal and quite impressive enough, especially as I think it would have to be toughened glass these days.

Best of luck with it!
 
That building is beautiful, really impressive brickwork. Great to see these old treasures used and maintained (if done properly!). Curved doors are a whole other level of difficulty but amazing. The glazing bar at the pen tip in the photo is what I'm thinking about for the door. This is from Ellis' Modern parctical joinery but I can't see any detail about the curved bar.

segment headed.jpg

A single pane might be nice but I had planned to have some coloured lights for the corners in a style like this:

corkhilldowsett door.jpg

I suppose a horizontal might work too.

PXL_20260215_192930195.jpg

I'm still a bit unsure what to go for. I might make the other staight bars first and depending on what stuff I have left maybe make a decision then. I don't think I'll laminate as the wood on the inside will be left in a natural finish. The outside will be linseed oil paint and linseed putty. I'll likely cut the peripheral glass myself and see about toughened for the larger central rectangle.
 
Ah yes, I should have looked in Ellis. In my defence, his book is in the bookcase in the sitting room and I wrote my post upstairs in the study. I shouldn't be so lazy!

It's frustrating how some details get left out, but I guess if you have got on to doing that quality of work, you're judged as be able to work out a method for yourself, or would have your workshop boss to ask.
 
One project I have this year is to repair (or potentially remake) some small arched windows in our old stable building (aka my workshop!). I've just ordered a copy of Ellis which looks like a goldmine!
 
It's a great book and having a hard copy is highly recommended. You're probably aware that it's available for free as a PDF as it is out of print?

Maybe you're planning a WIP for your windows?
 
It's a great book and having a hard copy is highly recommended. You're probably aware that it's available for free as a PDF as it is out of print?

Maybe you're planning a WIP for your windows?
Thanks. I managed to find a secondhand copy online. I generally prefer books to screens.

I will do a WIP when I get to it, though it will be more of a plea for advice than a WIP as I don't really know where to start!
 
I was thinking about your curved glazing bar. If it's a shallow curve, I think I'd try to find a piece of timber which has a bit of natural curve in the grain and then just saw the shape. You could saw it over size and see if it moves before taking it down to the final shape.
 
I might see if I've something with grain that would fit the curve or as close as. Just had a leaf through Ellis and he has a chapter on curved work. Might be useful for your project Nick. I do need to read sections a few times as it's very text heavy but there's great info in there and some fantastic drawings.
 
Multiple things to deal with in last couple of months so a bit behind in this project. Here are some pics of a different sort of panel. It's at about the limits of panel size that I feel is doable before instability becomes a big risk. A bit of geometry and a couple of equations allowed working out how to fit an octogon into a rectangle. This could be all roughed out with chisels and then finished with a no.4 and scrapers. But I also used a no.6, bullnose and chisel plane for the valleys. The facets are an inch tall.

PXL_20260327_111118713.jpg
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A few tricky knots to get through
PXL_20260401_103100383.jpg

Cut a mullet from your longest door stile

PXL_20260401_103248699.jpg

Not essential but makes fitting the panel easier
PXL_20260401_131323941.jpg

Back of panel is minimally raised.

PXL_20260402_092902903.jpg

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Harsh light helps to highlight the relief and shows up areas that still need worked on. Anyway enjoyed something new and got sick of doing raised panels and the usual variations.

PXL_20260403_105204888.jpg

A fair bit more more clean up as I otherwise take another little break while waiting for some glass
 

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Wow! That's really spectacular. Beautifully done too.
 
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