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Does age = Luddite?

RogerS

RogerS

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And off to pastures new
I was chatting with Mark about contactless cards and that ...

"happiness was getting a new (an unwanted contactless) credit card, being told by NatWest that non-contactless card was not available, doing a quick Google and finding out how to disable the antenna. Suck on that, NatWest Mastercard!)"

Mark responded with a gentle bit of humour about tin-foil hats! :D

That got me wondering if it really was an age-thing in that age automatically implied a Luddite attitude. I have come to the conclusion that it isn't and I'll tell you for why. Be interested to hear if you agree.

Everything in life takes time, money or emotion (or any combination). When any new technology comes along there is the question of benefit (perceived or actual) and risk. If I was working full-time then I probably would quite happily use a contactless card as I can see it being more convenient (although having to take it out of ones wallet and away from ones Oyster card seems to minimise any benefit). The known risks probably are not outweighed by the benefits.

But despite what the banks would tell you, contactless cards are not secure and as shown on the BBC Breakfast programme this morning, dead easy to remove £many-thousands from the card (not just the £20 limit per transaction). The banks will try and tell you that we are protected but ..and here is the crux..what they are missing is the wasted time, effort and energy in chasing up a mispayment or a double payment or fraud, whatever. Because the thing is you have absolutely no idea that your card has been zapped for, say, £20 until you get your statement. Then, if you have made legitimate transactions on either side of that one, you try getting your money back from the bank.

And therein lies the rub. Perhaps as we get older, we simply can't be arsed with the hassle. Maybe because sub-consciously we know that time is running out, maybe? Or maybe we have been there, seen it, done it and have the T-shirt and would rather spend our time on more pleasurable activities?

What do you think?
 
It gets harder to cope with change as you get older. You tend to consider more rather than just go for it and find out the finer detail as you come across it. To me its related to time.

When I was working I'd be knocking out product as fast or faster than our mailee - different product but still done to profit making speed. Now I do a few hours a day and if I've made some progress I'm happy to put my feet up for the rest of the day. I've slowed down. My day has less in it but goes past faster. I think more, so a change gets more consideration and if you are not careful becomes a bigger issue than it really is.

I'm not stuck in the past and am happy to have a go with new technologies including contactless cards but I can see I might be one day.

I'm starting to understand how things like paying a bill became so important to my mother as she got older - there's less going on so what there is becomes overly important.

So not a Luddite yet and I'll keep resisting but for some it may be inevitable.
 
Over here the cheque book is still king. Therefore most of the population of France are Luddites. Or perhaps they are less interested in saving 30 seconds when paying for a paper or a drink in a bar.
Maybe to linger longer in a shop and actually talk and interact is more important than gaining all those extra seconds during the day in order to watch the TV at night.

I think with age comes cynicism and reluctance to embrace technology just because it is there. Learning to live with what you have got is actually harder than getting sucked into to every new technology and where has it got us?

I would maybe a bit less cynical if all the new technology actually made a difference to peoples lives. Of course technology has changed all of our lives and made an enormous difference to the way we do so many things. Then why are we not working less? Why are 40+, 60+ or even 80+ hours a week the norm?
 
The problem I see with modern technologies is other peoples expectations of you & that technology. Tell someone you don't have a mobile phone, they look at you like you've got two heads.
They then tell you how wonderful they are & how they couldn't live their lives without one, texting, emailing, keeping up with social media & occasionally actually talking to someone on them.
All it's really done is make their life immediate, in the now, you are expected to be available anywhere & everywhere, well bugger that.
If I go in the workshop for the day it's to focus on something I want to do, not to be at someone else's beck & call, but people don't understand that, if they want your attention they want it NOW, I'm convinced modern technology is the reason people are so impatient these days. I don't know about not having time to smell the coffee, they haven't the time to heat the water.

Luddite? I jolly well hope so.


Kind regards,

Frank.
 
I don't believe that I'm too much of a Luddite as I'm happy to embrace new technology when it can benefit me and that is the key.

I might make one call on a mobile per month if that and I possibly won't answer if it rings but it is handy go on line to find something out down the pub or find my way round in a strange town.

There is an element of sticking to tried and tested ways and only moving on once they are proven or provide things I need which I do support. Hence I will continue to use WinXP because it does all I need of it. Prior to that i used win98 and only moved on when I wanted to do things it did not support. I expect I'll change to win 2020 or similar when the need arises.

As several of you know I make use of all sorts of technology in the workshop, variable speed motor inverters, digital readout, CNC and CAD drawing up to a point. The workshop is networked back to the house so I can design in the office, modify on a laptop whilst being sociable (ish) with SWMBO and then manufacture in the workshop

Contactless cards offer a facility I just don't need. Add to that my technical knowledge knows that they are vulnerable to attack. However with the £20 limit the damage is minimal and provided a user can prove that he did not make a particular transaction then the banks should cough up.
Up until now contactless cards issued to me have not been able to be disabled by the issuer and so I have resorted to physical means to prevent contactless use.
I was however pleased to read that my new Amex card will require a PIN to be entered on first use in contactless mode and as I never intend to use it this way and a crim card skimmer will at least have some discomfort if he tries to use my card details.

Still deciding whether I will attack it with a knife anyway just in case.

Bob
 
9fingers":1mwrr7zb said:
.....However with the £20 limit the damage is minimal and provided a user can prove that he did not make a particular transaction then the banks should cough up. .....
Bob
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that £20 limit seems to have been blown away as on Breakfast this morning (and unfortunately I only came in part way through and they don't put it on iPlayer) but, bottom line, the guy transferred $99999.99 and bypassed the £20 limit.

Also, even with the £20 limit. You have no way of knowing if your card has been scavenged and taken a hit. So when you get your bank statement, you might have used the card at 9.10am for a valid transaction. Te fraudster takes £20 at 10.00am and you use your contactless card again at, say, 10.30. I reckon you would have a tough call convincing the bank that it wasn't you doing the £20 and frankly, as I mentioned in the OP, I don't want the hassle. Delighted to say that I have cut through the antenna on both cards although a bit heavy-handed on the first one. Will check the mag strip out at a mate's gym and see if it's readable. If not I'll just ask for a new one and modify it a bit more gently.

EDIT: Found the Visa vulnerability link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCtUbCaeTOU
 
It was on the news tonight - the bank said it would not have got through as there are other checks in place but they are already upgrading the system?

Rod
 
Rod":3otq6y9l said:
It was on the news tonight - the bank said it would not have got through as there are other checks in place but they are already upgrading the system?

Rod
Click to expand...

Yeah..right. Rubbish. BS...that's what I call what the banks are saying. But before this item became news the banks were insisting the system was secure! Pah!
 
Morning Bob

Still deciding whether I will attack it with a knife anyway just in case.


Did you post how to disable this facility on TWH?

Any chance of posting it here?

Cheers

Dave
 
Dave

It does depend on which card you have as, IIRC, the antenna are in slightly different places. I have Mastercard and I made my card on the face surface at the top. From the top edge (just above the 8th digit of the 16 digit card number) and then scored downwards towards the bottom edge by about 6mm (just to the top of the mag strip on the other side.

Roger
 
The antenna may be in slightly different places from card to card but they will want the largest possible area for the multiturn coil that is embedded in the plastic so it will be near to the edge.
I use a small cut with a stanley knife just under the magnetic strip outwards to the edge of the card.
In theory you only need to go partway through but unless you have the equipment ** to test the success of the cut then just cut right through.
This is an old photo of the first one I did - not very neat but it works. Later ones were tidier.



hth

Bob

** operating frequency is 13.56MHz
 
If you have an NFC enabled smartphone then you can download a free app NFC Tag Info which will either interface with your contactless card (pre-snip) or not (post-snip!).

As an aside, the MBNA card that replaced the Amazon card is contactless but not recognised by the app. So possible this card might need 'enabling' first ? Not sure. I see that the original Amazon card is still working perfectly happily.
 
Roger have you enabled your new MBNA card - as a credit card - since it arrived because that might be the reason.

As soon as my amazon replacement card arrived I cut it up and did not enable it and sent MBNA a Foxtrot Oscar email to never darken my door as they did not honour their promise to offer a reward scheme of commensurate value to the Amazon discount which is what their online chat droid had promised me.

My Amex card guff said that I would have to enter a pin on the first use to enable contactless use. I don't know how that would work as I'd assumed the contactless readers would have no need for a keypad to enter a PIN unless the retailer has a pad to enter the transaction value and would give you access to that?
Anyway I have no intention of using it in that mode unless there is a very radical change in my lifestyle and their system.
I do note that LIDL have started accepting contactless payment but our nearest grocery discounter is an ALDI and they've not gone that far yet and in any case £20 limit is a bit low for grocery shopping.

Bob
 
Bob, yes it has been activated but in my case that wouldn't affect the outcome as I'm using the app on my smartphone.
 
On the luddite or not question, I'm 100% with Bob and others in that the test is "is there something I want/need to do that I cant do with what I have now?" Mostly the answer is no.

Sometimes the test is favourable, for example, mobile phones transformed my world - I was an early adopter - remember the 3lb lump weighing down one side of your jacket ? Same goes for Wi-Fi, but contactless cards will not change my behaviour (except perhaps on motorway tolls) so cant see a reason to accept a higher level of fraud risk.
 
chataigner":2fp7rzrr said:
but contactless cards will not change my behaviour (except perhaps on motorway tolls) so cant see a reason to accept a higher level of fraud risk.
Click to expand...

Not noticed them on the tolls around here but can't imagine that it would be any quicker than putting the card in the slot as we do now.
 
9fingers":5b7250a3 said:
The antenna may be in slightly different places from card to card but they will want the largest possible area for the multiturn coil that is embedded in the plastic so it will be near to the edge.
I use a small cut with a stanley knife just under the magnetic strip outwards to the edge of the card.
In theory you only need to go partway through but unless you have the equipment ** to test the success of the cut then just cut right through.
This is an old photo of the first one I did - not very neat but it works. Later ones were tidier.



hth

Bob

** operating frequency is 13.56MHz
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob
 
Just checked my two 'modified' cards at Caffe Nero and both work a treat...contactless :eusa-dance:

I had a very bemused barista until I explained why. I think someone else might be doing the same to their card :eusa-whistle:
 
Well a total Luddite here. I don't like the idea of con tactless cards and can't see why swiping it is any hassle. i still use cheques and am against electronics in vehicles. I do have a mobile phone and it is one of the new 'smartphones' but only use it for calling and texting. My thinking is if something is computer controlled then it is bound to go wrong at some point. I know we can't live without electronics these days but we rely on them so much without any back ups. I am like Bob and have only recently upgraded to Windows 7 from XP that I had used for many years before. The worrying thing is most aircraft are fly by wire now too! :shock:
 
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