Edge Planing Help

[Dr.Al]

I'm in the process of making my first box and trying to restrict myself to only using hand tools. I'm not too worried if it ends up looking awful and I don't really care what size it is, I'm mainly just doing it for technique practice.

Having said that, one part of this afternoon's activities ended up being a bit very frustrating! I ripped a bit of oak in half, planed the two faces of each half and then clamped them together in the vice with one edge up. I then planed the edge of both pieces together. It took me quite a few goes before I was happy that the edge was exactly at right-angles to the faces and I wasn't really sure what I was doing, but overall I was happy up to this point.

I then turned the two pieces over and tried to plane the opposite edge such that it was at right angles to the faces and such that measurements of the width of the board at the two ends were the same. This did not go well. I've watched a few youtube videos (mostly Paul Sellers ones), but I'm clearly missing something. I'm holding the plane with my left-hand gripping the sole (rather than the knob) and with my fingers against the face of the board. I've tried it with my left hand on the knob as well but the results were much the same.

I'm guessing my problem is that I put too much pressure down on the start of the cut and not enough at the end and also that I put more pressure down on the left-hand side of the plane than the right. I'd spend ages getting it such that the two end measurements were the same and find that it was a long way off a right angle (always the same way with a higher right-hand edge as viewed from where I stand for planing).

I'd then spend ages getting it back to a right angle, by which point the near end was about 2 mm narrower than the far end!

That went on for a while. I got there eventually (having taken the board width down from 100 mm to 75 mm!), but at the end I didn't really feel like I had learnt what I was doing wrong. It feels like a real struggle to adjust an edge angle (to get a right angle) and also very hard to maintain an edge parallel as it gets planed.

Can anyone offer me some advice on what to try to get a bit better at this?

 

[Woodbloke]

Practice, practice and more practice. Or make it easy for yourself and knock up one of these. I've made dozens (a few :eusa-whistle: ) of these things over the decades and this one is light years ahead of any thing else. Once you see how easy it is to use, you can sort out dead square sides and ends, then use the board to shoot the other edge square and true - Rob

 

[Dr.Al]

Practice, practice and more practice. Or make it easy for yourself and knock up one of these. I've made dozens (a few :eusa-whistle: ) of these things over the decades and this one is light years ahead of any thing else. Once you see how easy it is to use, you can sort out dead square sides and ends, then use the board to shoot the other edge square and true - Rob

Interestingly, I've been using my shooting board all afternoon for getting square ends and for cutting some mitres. It never occurred to me to use it for the long edges !

Having said that, I would really like to master doing it in the vice, especially adjusting an angle to get the edge square. I'm also a great believer in "practice makes permanent" as opposed to "practice makes perfect": if I'm doing something fundamentally wrong (which, from the results I assume I must be) then practising a lot is a good way of gaining muscle-memory of doing it wrong!

 

[Woodbloke]

Practice, practice and more practice. Or make it easy for yourself and knock up one of these. I've made dozens (a few :eusa-whistle: ) of these things over the decades and this one is light years ahead of any thing else. Once you see how easy it is to use, you can sort out dead square sides and ends, then use the board to shoot the other edge square and true - Rob

Interestingly, I've been using my shooting board all afternoon for getting square ends and for cutting some mitres. It never occurred to me to use it for the long edges !

You can use that shooting board for almost everything. If you check out the Jewellery Box I did recently, all the material was planed to size on my shooter. The way I do each piece is as follows, assuming that the material has been planed to a constant thickness:
Shoot one edge, mark as the datum when true and square, mark as face edge. Shoot one end dead square, flip the wood over keep the face edge against the fence; shoot the other end dead square. Repeat on the second piece of wood if say, it's a long side.
Now you have two bits of wood which are square, but may not be exactly the same length. Place them both, one atop the other against the fence with the ends hard up against it, then use your fingertips at the other end to see which requires a few shavings off to bring each to the same length.
When your fingertips can't feel a 'ridge' 'twixt one and the other, the boards are exactly the same length. Repeat the process for planing the opposite side(s) - Rob

 

[Mike G]

Yep, Rob's covered it. For thin boards, using either a large bench hook as a shooting board (running the plane along the bench top), or a purpose made shooting board, is the best way of ensuring you end up with a square edge. Wax the sole and the side of the plane before you start........it makes an enormous difference.

However, planing the edges of boards in a vice is just one of those skills you are going to need, and there is absolutely no harm in converting an entire piece of 6x1 pine into shavings just to help develop your skills. It isn't easy. Even now I have to check for squareness more often than I'd like. Most people have a tendency to take too much off the side nearest them..........and knowing this, I have a tendency to over-compensate, and take too much off the far side.

Counter-intuitively, a slightly cambered blade is really useful for producing a square edge. It allows you to correct a lean one way or the other by simply moving the plane over to cut with one edge of the blade or the other.

 

[Dave65]

“I'm holding the plane with my left-hand gripping the sole (rather than the knob) and with my fingers against the face of the board”


I find it difficult controlling the plane while holding like this too.

 

[billw]

I tried planing duplicate pieces in the same way you describe and I found it really difficult. If I concentrated on getting them to be 90 degrees to the face, I found they sloped one end to the other and vice versa.

I absolutely believe practice would eradicate those habits, but as people have said I found a shooting board and a 60 1/2 plane made a fantastic job of getting everything to a suitable state.

 

[novocaine]

I never plane 2 at once i find it easier to do one at a time and use the first to dictate the second.

It really is a skill that you have to do over and over again till it just sort of clicks.

 

[sunnybob]

Or, if like me you just want it done and cant be fussed to spend the time learning, a router table with an offset fence does it in seconds, perfect every time :lol:

 

[Mike G]

By the time you changed your cutter, Bob, let alone fitted your offset fence and adjusted the fence to suit, I've edge-planed all the boards for a box. And your set-up references the cut face you are working on, so unless that is correct, the resulting edge won't be correct. Having said that, it is a useful technique which I've used myself in the past.

 

[Woodbloke]

I never plane 2 at once i find it easier to do one at a time and use the first to dictate the second.

Wot I said, init - Rob

 

[MattS]

Watched that shooting board video. A remarkably simple construction but looked very effective!

 

[Woodbloke]

Watched that shooting board video. A remarkably simple construction but looked very effective!

It is Matt, a gobsmackingly simple bit of kit but really, very, very good. Within a half hour or so of watching it I'b made my own - Rob

 

[TrimTheKing]

This really isn’t difficult with a cambered blade and a little know how. Where you start/stop your shavings can make a massive difference. Your technique sounds good (thumb on top of plane and fingers underneath against the board) but it sounds like your blade needs a little work which is where the chambering helps. It enables you to keep the sole flat on the board and take a shaving from one edge without adjusting the art of the blade.

I’ve got links to a few video sources I used for exactly this when I was starting out, I’ll try and find them.

 

[AndyP]

Some interesting ideas here

https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entries/ ... unplugged#

 

[sunnybob]

By the time you changed your cutter, Bob, let alone fitted your offset fence and adjusted the fence to suit, I've edge-planed all the boards for a box. And your set-up references the cut face you are working on, so unless that is correct, the resulting edge won't be correct. Having said that, it is a useful technique which I've used myself in the past.

I'm pretty damn fast changing cutters (I once had a timed race between my standard makita collet and someone else who had a musclechuck on his and I was only 8 seconds slower :eusa-dance: ) and I have pieces of 1 mm thick plastic that wedge out the fence to exactly what I need.
And the surface is flat because it went through my thicknesser (twice).

Nothing wrong with hand tools if you have the dexterity and the patience (drat, thats a 100% fail for me then). :lol:
I still havent used a plane in making all of the stuff in my project folder, although to be fair, there is an occasional chisel mark.

 

[Dr.Al]

Practice, practice and more practice. Or make it easy for yourself and knock up one of these. I've made dozens (a few :eusa-whistle: ) of these things over the decades and this one is light years ahead of any thing else. Once you see how easy it is to use, you can sort out dead square sides and ends, then use the board to shoot the other edge square and true - Rob

Interestingly, I've been using my shooting board all afternoon for getting square ends and for cutting some mitres. It never occurred to me to use it for the long edges !

You can use that shooting board for almost everything. If you check out the Jewellery Box I did recently, all the material was planed to size on my shooter. The way I do each piece is as follows, assuming that the material has been planed to a constant thickness:
Shoot one edge, mark as the datum when true and square, mark as face edge. Shoot one end dead square, flip the wood over keep the face edge against the fence; shoot the other end dead square. Repeat on the second piece of wood if say, it's a long side.
Now you have two bits of wood which are square, but may not be exactly the same length. Place them both, one atop the other against the fence with the ends hard up against it, then use your fingertips at the other end to see which requires a few shavings off to bring each to the same length.
When your fingertips can't feel a 'ridge' 'twixt one and the other, the boards are exactly the same length. Repeat the process for planing the opposite side(s) - Rob

Thanks for the tips. I haven't done any more edge planing practice today as I wanted to get on with making the box I'd planed the wood for.

How do you cope with long and thin bits of wood? Planing the two long edges of something that is (say) 15 mm × 80 mm × 500 mm wouldn't be practical on my shooting board: the 15 mm dimension wouldn't be long enough against the fence for me to be confident in a right angle (which I think would be required to ensure that the edge I'm planing would be parallel to the other long edge) and even if I used a big square against the fence, the 500 mm dimension is far too long to shoot on my shooting board.

I think it was that concern that has kept me to just cutting the ends of longer boards on the shooting board and not the edges.

Yep, Rob's covered it. For thin boards, using either a large bench hook as a shooting board (running the plane along the bench top), or a purpose made shooting board, is the best way of ensuring you end up with a square edge. Wax the sole and the side of the plane before you start........it makes an enormous difference.

However, planing the edges of boards in a vice is just one of those skills you are going to need, and there is absolutely no harm in converting an entire piece of 6x1 pine into shavings just to help develop your skills. It isn't easy. Even now I have to check for squareness more often than I'd like. Most people have a tendency to take too much off the side nearest them..........and knowing this, I have a tendency to over-compensate, and take too much off the far side.

Counter-intuitively, a slightly cambered blade is really useful for producing a square edge. It allows you to correct a lean one way or the other by simply moving the plane over to cut with one edge of the blade or the other.

Thanks: I think I need to spend a decent amount of time practising as you say. I've also sharpened the blade on the plane I'm using at 90° to the sides, albeit with the corners "softened" slightly. Perhaps I need to resharpen it with more of a camber and see what difference it makes. I've got a spare blade, so I might just sharpen one of them that way and I can switch back and forth as needed.

Some interesting ideas here

https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entries/ ... unplugged#

Looks interesting, thanks for the link. I'll have a thorough read through all that this evening.

This really isn’t difficult with a cambered blade and a little know how. Where you start/stop your shavings can make a massive difference. Your technique sounds good (thumb on top of plane and fingers underneath against the board) but it sounds like your blade needs a little work which is where the chambering helps. It enables you to keep the sole flat on the board and take a shaving from one edge without adjusting the art of the blade.

I’ve got links to a few video sources I used for exactly this when I was starting out, I’ll try and find them.

I'd be interested to see those. Adding a camber to the blade seems to be something I need to do!

 

[TrimTheKing]

Yep, but the camber in mine is little more than 3-5 swipes of the blade along the stone at each corner, using Charlesworth’s method of a piece of plastic from a coke/milk bottle to raise the other side. It really is a tiny amount, but works brilliantly.

 

[Woodbloke]

How do you cope with long and thin bits of wood? Planing the two long edges of something that is (say) 15 mm × 80 mm × 500 mm wouldn't be practical on my shooting board


I'd be interested to see those. Adding a camber to the blade seems to be something I need to do!

Simples. Make a longer shooting board! If you follow the linkie in the one I posted earlier, you can knock one up in half an hour. The longest shooting board I have is two bits of melamine faced Contiboard (soap and water for the mouth) screwed together to shoot veneers so it's around 2m long.

If you use bevel up planes as I do, the geometry of the bed angle means that it's impossible to use a cambered blade. Even in my Norris panel plane days when I did use bevel down, I never used a cambered blade. All the stuff I've built over the last forty+ years has been done with a straight blade and if you use a shooting board you must have a straight blade as well - Rob

 

[AndyT]

Well, that's interesting.
I'm on the side of the cambered blades, but we all know that Rob is definitely capable of planing edges square when he needs to. So once again, in the world of woodworking, there are different ways of achieving the same goal. Take your pick!

 

[Dr.Al]

Well, that's interesting.
I'm on the side of the cambered blades, but we all know that Rob is definitely capable of planing edges square when he needs to. So once again, in the world of woodworking, there are different ways of achieving the same goal. Take your pick!

I don't think I'd want to use a cambered blade on a shooting board, especially if shooting mitres. I use a #5½ for the shooting board; I'll probably have a go at cambering one of the blades I've got for my #5 and use that for edge planing in the vice.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Rob/Doc - I’m going to go against your view here because I use a LV BU Jack and BU Block and I assure you that I use a camber on the blades in both with great success, for flat planing, mitres and on the shooting board...

The camber, as I explained earlier, is so shallow that it doesn’t cause an issue in either of those situations, we’re talking in the region of a couple of thou.

Don’t get too hung up on it, the camber is just there to knock the corners off the blade and allow you to take part width shavings on .5” boards if required.

 

[AndyT]

Now that Custard is posting over here, I hope it's ok to point out that a while back he wrote a detailed, well illustrated treatment of the whole topic of edge jointing, here which is worth a read.

 

[Dr.Al]

Rob/Doc - I’m going to go against your view here because I use a LV BU Jack and BU Block and I assure you that I use a camber on the blades in both with great success, for flat planing, mitres and on the shooting board...

The camber, as I explained earlier, is so shallow that it doesn’t cause an issue in either of those situations, we’re talking in the region of a couple of thou.

Don’t get too hung up on it, the camber is just there to knock the corners off the blade and allow you to take part width shavings on .5” boards if required.

Maybe I'm getting confused about two different people's definition of a camber (what you're describing sounds like what I do anyway to get rid of sharp corners that might make tracks when face planing), but if the camber is only a couple of thou, how would I be able to do what Mike G describes and move the plane side to side to adjust the angle of the edge?

 

[TrimTheKing]

Rob/Doc - I’m going to go against your view here because I use a LV BU Jack and BU Block and I assure you that I use a camber on the blades in both with great success, for flat planing, mitres and on the shooting board...

The camber, as I explained earlier, is so shallow that it doesn’t cause an issue in either of those situations, we’re talking in the region of a couple of thou.

Don’t get too hung up on it, the camber is just there to knock the corners off the blade and allow you to take part width shavings on .5” boards if required.

Maybe I'm getting confused about two different people's definition of a camber (what you're describing sounds like what I do anyway to get rid of sharp corners that might make tracks when face planing), but if the camber is only a couple of thou, how would I be able to do what Mike G describes and move the plane side to side to adjust the angle of the edge?

Effectively when cambering the blade I take say 6-8 swipes on the sharpening stone with the pressure at the outside edges of the blade, then 3-5 swipes at .25 of the way in on both sides, then 2-3 swipes in the middle of the blade. That way you create a very slight camber.

When planing a narrow edge with let’s say an angle left to right (as you sight down the length) of 6 thou. If you run the centre of the blade down the centre of the board you will maintain the flat surface and the 6 thou difference.

If you were to move the centre of the plane sole across to the left edge of the board or further (so only the right hand half of the sole is on the board) and take a shaving, you will find that it takes off material from the edge and the shaving will thin to nothing at the right hand side, thus removing maybe 1-2 thou. Repeat that a couple of times and you find that you have removed the 6 thou rise and your edge is square.

It’s easier to show than do so I’ll try and find the video for you.

 

[Woodbloke]

Rob/Doc - I’m going to go against your view here because I use a LV BU Jack and BU Block and I assure you that I use a camber on the blades in both with great success...

This has always perplexed me. Take a BU blade and put a small camber on it and it will be curved if you hold it perpendicular to your face; then tip it backwards by 78deg (the blade is now at 12deg to the horizontal) and the curve will disappear so the blade will be effectively 'flat' and this is what the wood will see.

You can demonstrate this more effectively by doing the same exercise with a circular dinner plate which obviously has a huge semi-circular camber (ie; the rim). Hold it in front of your face and you'll see a circle; tip it back to almost flat (12deg) and the circle diminishes to to a very slight curve, so if you wanted to have an effective camber (as you might on a BD blade) on a BU blade you'd need to have a curve which is nearly semi-circular! :lol: - Rob

 

[Mike G]

There's camber and there's camber. My only bevel up planes are my two block planes, and whilst the geometry that Rod describes so well means putting on a sweeping camber is pretty pointless, I still relieve the corners so that they are less likely to dig in and cause tramlines.

 

[Woodbloke]

I still relieve the corners so that they are less likely to dig in and cause tramlines.

...as I do Mike and if you keep the blades flat, it's the only thing you really need to do - Rob

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Mark said:

"Charlesworth’s method of a piece of plastic from a coke/milk bottle to raise the other side. "

Sorry, what? I thought I had come across most of D.C.'s "wheezes".

Sam

 

[novocaine]

Mark said:

"Charlesworth’s method of a piece of plastic from a coke/milk bottle to raise the other side. "

Sorry, what? I thought I had come across most of D.C.'s "wheezes".

Sam

Its like the ruler trick for chisels.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Its like the ruler trick for chisels.

The ruler trick is NOT for chisels as DC is at great pains to repeat in all his videos, only for plane blades. But yes you’re right it’s the same principle.

 

[TrimTheKing]

These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.

 

[novocaine]

Sorry, my mistake and most like because it isnt something i bother doing for chisels or for planes blades, considering it wholly unneeded and just another step invented by someone with more interest in sharpening than in actually making something.
I know St. Paul recommends it too.

I did add it to my sharpening for a while, but couldn't see any benefit over hand sharpening.

But let's not do a sharpening thread, oh please lets not do a sharpening thread.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Sorry, my mistake and most like because it isnt something i bother doing for chisels or for planes blades, considering it wholly unneeded and just another step invented by someone with more interest in sharpening than in actually making something.
I know St. Paul recommends it too.

I did add it to my sharpening for a while, but couldn't see any benefit over hand sharpening.

But let's not do a sharpening thread, oh please lets not do a sharpening thread.

No I agree, I don’t do it either, just clarifying DC’s oft repeated mantra. I should have put a after it as it was meant as a funny not a rebuke.

I have no issue with sharpening threads per se, because for people who are new to it they can help. It’s up to us, the contributors, to make sure they don’t go awry.

But in general I agree, we won’t be going down that route.

 

[novocaine]

Think mine might have been missing a few emojis too Mark. All meant in the best possible taste. bscene-drinkingbuddies:

 

[9fingers]

Seeing all this angst over just one type of hand tool makes me grateful that I'm primarily a wood machinist and not having to worry about planes other than where I put it last when I need to prop the workshop door open on a summer day :lol:

Bob

 

[Dr.Al]

These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.

Thanks Mark - I'll watch them sometime in the next day or two. I have to be in the right frame of mind to sit down in front of youtube videos.

 

[TrimTheKing]

No worries. They’re not long, 10-15 mins each,
So not onerous.

 

[Woodbloke]

These videos will help you Doc, this is the one about how to put the slight camber on the blade...


https://youtu.be/WiPAS-iQFvk

This one is planing a square edge with a cambered blade. Explains it better than my words did.

https://youtu.be/y1ztIO6RAYU

I heartily advocate a few mins spent watching these because when I started I knew NOTHING about planing or sharpening and while there are a million ways that people like to do it or it can be done (and we will NOT be getting into that argument on this forum!!!) for a beginner who didn’t know anything it worked for me and I have kept up with this, albeit with some efficiencies of my own, and it works.

Thanks Mark - I'll watch them sometime in the next day or two. I have to be in the right frame of mind to sit down in front of youtube videos.

I haven't look at the clips but if Mark's recommended them, they'll be up to snuff. If you choose to go down the cambered plane road, more power to your elbow; I would counsel though not to camber the blade you use on your shooting board. If you have a few spare planes loafing around (most of us do, except Mike :lol: ) use one (a No.5 or 6) as a dedicated shooting board plane - Rob

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Thanks Mark and Dave, gotcha now.

Sam