French food, produce and markets

[AJB Temple]

I’ve seen a few posts on here suggesting that the much-lauded French markets and produce are a bit .......meh. By happenstance I cooked for a well-known chef a few days ago and she cooked pudding for me. (No names will be mentioned). She’s not French, but she’s lived and worked in France, is fluent and published. So I quizzed her over a glass or three on her view of it. The caveat is that she has mainly worked in Paris and a bit in Lyon, but she said:

You can’t get the best stuff if you are not fluent or well connected, as the superior produce is often ‘sous le comptoir’. She says it is not a problem getting great produce and cuisine in the culinary centres, but elsewhere markets are in decline. She thinks the stallholders are often corporates behind the scenes and buy a lot of produce in from wholesalers, and the market moves from town to town during the days of the week (basically the same stuff shifted about. Most “artisan” bread is factory made along with most basic pastries, even if it is presented as locally baked.

Young French people are far less interested in the art of cooking and no longer learn from their grandmothers. She thought that McDonald’s has even more representation in France than the UK, along with 'Quick'/Burger King, and that fast food and supermarket microwave ready meals are affecting the food culture.

She also said, and her husband agreed, that the French are unwilling to embrace new food trends and are embourbé (we would say stick in the mud I suppose) so it is stuck in a time warp with some significant prejudice against other cuisines (except burgers apparently). French country cooking is very simple and a lot of classic restaurant cooking now seems old fashioned (obviously there are exceptions).

But she said a huge factor is that produce prices have gone crazy. We compared prices for a tray of fresh restaurant quality button mushrooms (by tray – think a sort of crate about 2’ by 1’ and a 4” thick layer of mushrooms. We pay no more than £13 for this, delivered. Her husband said this could easily be €30 in Paris plus delivery. I would have to pay £40 / kg for fresh morels in season (now). These are used a lot in classic French cuisine and they reckoned at least €120 / kg and that most are exported as the Italians pay more. A 10kg bag of banana shallots is three times the price in Paris. I explained what we are paying for things like Sutton Hoo chucks, and organic grass fed beef and they laughed at how cheap they are in the UK. And also said you really struggle to get certified beef in France (breed, origin, organic, grass fed or whatever) unless you are ordering a whole or half carcase, and the quality otherwise is poor.

Pork is more popular than beef or chicken in France apparently, but three quarters of it is consumed as charcuterie. This makes it expensive because it has to be processed and stored for a long time. Her view on the thorny subject of bacon is that the French don’t eat bacon and that they despise British sausages because we add rusk (just a bit to reduce splitting in good ones) and cook them rather than cure them. Also. “no one eats horse anymore!” They probably do, but you don’t see many cheap horses these days. Butter is “très cher”

We talked for some hours and she had some interesting views, including that the British romanticise French cuisine and produce and it was never as good as we think it was. French cuisine is still revered, but many French are not supporting it and not letting it evolve.

Not sure what I took away from this other than that you can still eat well in France, but it won’t be cheap.

 

[Jonathan]

Adrian in the early 90s I worked for an American company in the Paris region that where making a theme park that celebrated a duck that wore clothes. We lived out in the sticks away from it all and the main road that passed our village was closed for reconstruction, the village Auberge was struggling due to the lack of passing punters, so we made a deal for a meal every night Monday to Friday
The chef was previously running a restaurant of repute in Paris but had escaped the madness of the capital.
We eat his cuisine every night Monday to Friday for many months and never remember having the same cuisine twice.
Every meal was outstanding and the experience has had profound effects on my love of French cuisine.

In 2024 we took a family road trip through France, the roads as always were perfect, and the people I found were the same, friendly and kind. Ok, we kept away from the typical tourist areas and went into the sticks, the food was a total disappointment! And difficult to find local French food. What we did find was in my opinion overpriced for what it was.

On my return home, I was involved in a project in Portugal, now where the local produce is excellent and the restaurant food is outstanding and very reasonably priced.

 

[Mike]

When I moved to Germany in 1997, I told my friends they were welcome to visit any time and I would be their host. In the next 22 years before I retired, only one couple took me up on the offer. They had never been outside the U.S. and we spent two weeks traveling through Europe. One afternoon, near the end of their trip, we were at my house south of Frankfurt discussing where to eat dinner. By then, we had eaten our way from Poland to Italy, with lots of countries along the way. The wife asked if I knew where we could find a French restaurant, since we had not eaten French food yet. I told her I knew where we could find a lot of French restaurants, so we drove to Metz, France for dinner.

The first restaurant we found that was open had a generous "Prix Fixe" (fixed price) menu that included a five course menu with several options for each course. My high school French had abandoned me upon contact with the menu, but the waitress spoke passable English. The husband and wife made their selections randomly. When it was my turn, I asked the waitress to decide for me and bring me what she liked to eat. She smiled and left. It was a gamble, but by then I would have eaten the south end of a northbound horse. I can't remember specifically what I ate that evening, but everything was delicious and perfectly proportioned. For desert, I chose the cheese assortment and again asked her to decide for me. Some were quite pungent, but very tasty.

A few years later, I went to Paris for a long weekend vacation. Again, the food was delicious, the people were nice, and the overall experience was pleasant. While there, I tried to find an obscure museum that had some ceramics on display by Picasso. The museum was in a residential area and the map I had was not very detailed. As I wandered the streets comparing the sparse street signs to the map, I met an older man and asked for directions. I started the conversation in my broken French by apologizing for my poor language skills and asked if he could give me directions to the museum. In perfect English, he said "I can do better than that. Follow me." I was one block away from the museum, but I still would not have found it had it not been for the kind Parisian.

 

[AndyP]

My take on the sausages here is although rusk is not used there is no more meat added, just fat. I’d rather have the rusk.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I agree, Andy. And nothing is seasoned properly, either, everything is bland.
OK, merguez sausages are not bland, but they are not a nice flavour either, and I like spicy food.

We are going to a restaurant tomorrow with some friends. There is not a lot of choice locally (not a single restaurant is left in Chateauponsac itself, even the pizzaria closed down and moved their offering to string of pizza machines in supermarket car parks), without driving for 40m to the city, but there is one good restaurant in a neighbouring village that does a good Indian. But the lady who runs it is from Essex and is of mixed heritage, Punjabi and Middle Eastern, so she knows how to give you a good smack around the chops. I'm looking forward to it, it's been a while.

 

[AJB Temple]

We used to go to France for a break, at least once a year, along with long weekend foodie trips to Paris, Lyon and Reims. Plus horse trials and lots of motorbike trips. I have overwhelmingly positive memories of eating in France. Some truly outstandingly good meals, many of them individually memorable. All price points. Visited lots of markets over the years (I'm a bit addicted to markets) and was generally in awe compared to the UK. However, this was only rubbernecking not buying. Good French cooking is very special.

The last trip to Paris I felt we struggled and had to try hard to seek out a very good small restaurant in Montmatre in the 18th and had to beg for a table. Had a couple of very average Paris meals too, with the obligatory dire and rude service. We've not bothered to go back as Covid and Brexit broke the habit, and Eurotunnel got so expensive that we just stopped.

My then wife once had a whole Perigord truffle at one restaurant in Reims. She was a bit overwhelmed. Leaving aside Georges Blanc and a coupe of dead guys, Avignon produced my most memorable meal, which was breast of chicken in a cream sauce with lots of whole morels and a little white truffle. Not expensive (it was a long time ago) and incredibly good. I've just bought a 110g fresh black winter truffle (Not as good as white or perigord, but much cheaper) for an event (ie it will be sold). Special offer at £50.

 

[MattS]

We used to go regularly to France pre COVID and Brexit but have also stopped. Having a dog which we like to take away it is almost impossible now. Shame.

Aren't all countries going this way at different rates and it's not just food but all aspects of live. UK is I think just quicker to take hold of new things. Unfortunately these new things are all monotomy, in pursuit of profits for big business.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

France is indeed McD's largest market.

I remember being in Portugal in the mid '70s with my mother. We happened to see a restaurant ........... a decent cafe, really, and walking past she said this'll do - it looks clean. Many places then weren't. Off the tourist routes, there were no English menus, French being the second language then, so our choices were very much guesswork. We went back every time for pork and clams (palourdes) which was absolutely superb. We went to a restaurant in Faro owned by Fanny Craddock - words can't describe how awful it was.

 

[AJB Temple]

France is indeed McD's largest market.

I remember being in Portugal in the mid '70s with my mother. We happened to see a restaurant ........... a decent cafe, really, and walking past she said this'll do - it looks clean. Many places then weren't. Off the tourist routes, there were no English menus, French being the second language then, so our choices were very much guesswork. We went back every time for pork and clams (palourdes) which was absolutely superb. We went to a restaurant in Faro owned by Fanny Craddock - words can't describe how awful it was.

Fanny was born in 1909 so by the mid 70s she would be 66ish. In those days she would be an old woman. She was never a chef and having had a google there is very little about a restaurant in Portugal. She wrecked her own career in 1976 according to giggly. I've never seen her or read any books she wrote, but in photos she looks like she's sucked on a lemon

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But do all your doughnuts turn out like Fanny's?

 

[Steve Maskery]

I watched a bit of a clip where she was critiquing another woman's meal. She was a supercillious old bovine. "You are amongst the professionals now, dear".

 

[RogerS]

Back in the day, there was a very well edited spoof 'radio' programme featuring Fanny. Peppered with double-entendre's all the way through such as "Johnny's coming in now with 6 ounces of minced beef'. I used to have a cassette of it but that's long gone.

 

[Malc2098]

Back in the day, there was a very well edited spoof 'radio' programme featuring Fanny. Peppered with double-entendre's all the way through such as "Johnny's coming in now with 6 ounces of minced beef'. I used to have a cassette of it but that's long gone.

Beyond our Ken, currently being broadcast on Radio 4 Extra. Brilliant (but not as brilliant as Round the Horne)

 

[AJB Temple]

Fanny begat Delia who begat Nigella who is still simpering on TV as we await the new girl on the block I suppose. I think the Tube has taken over and we will not see their like again.

 

[AndyP]

We used to go regularly to France pre COVID and Brexit but have also stopped. Having a dog which we like to take away it is almost impossible now. Shame.

I'm surprised at that Matt. We have travelled a few times the other way (France to UK and return) via Eurotunnel and found the Pet Passport made checking the dog in and out on both sides of the channel quicker and easier than for ourselves.

 

[AJB Temple]

Andy, I don't think you can get a passport for pets in the UK that works in Europe. You now need an animal health certificate instead, which is an expensive hassle every time as they are single use and must be renewed for each trip. Around £100 to £200 a time assuming pet is chipped and vaccinated already. They get checked carefully and can cause significant delay. One of the Brexit benefits.

 

[AndyP]

All dogs have to be chipped from about 8 weeks old anyway and vaccinated. I am surprised, shocked, the health certificate is so expensive in the UK. We just go to vet week before travel, and have them certify his rabies vaccine is up to date and get a tapeworm treatment. Cost less than 50€.
Both sides of the border on eurotunnel were quicker to process the mutt than ourselves.

 

[MattS]

You also have to get a check over at a vets in France before coming home! Might do it in the future for a longer holiday but we typically did link weekends to France and it’s not worth the hassle or expense to bring the dog.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Just to stir the pot:

If you are "British", raised in Northern Ireland, paid British taxes, but now live on 'the mainland'...you have to shell out quite a large wad of cash to get the veterinary paperwork to travel back 'home'....with a pet. Brexit? Gotta love it.

 

[AndyP]

Wow! I had no idea you had to get tapeworm treatment here before going back to UK I had assumed that was done before leaving UK and valid for the duration .