Gate conundrum - how to fix this?

[AJB Temple]

Made these thick and heavy Iroko inner gates about 8 or 9 years ago. * They are around five or six yards wide as a pair. Jet wash and spray of oil restores the colour to brownish every couple of years. Now a gap has developed between them at the top. They are remote control electric. CASE. (Wish I had bought a heavier duty kit as wind pressure is a challenge I had not forseen).



Deep M&T construction, glued and pegged with Iroko dowels.Posts were green oak, bottoms resin treated and sit 5 feet into the ground in barrel sized concrete hole. When installed, and for the first few years, gates were dead square and flat, and posts spot on vertical. The adjustable hinges need to be tweaked with 30mm spanner to account for a few mm or seasonal movement. In the last two years only the gates have developed an aversion to each other at the top, so that they don't come together perfectly anymore. The RH gate closes first (as that has the outside overlap, and the left gate meets the bottom and stops with the effect in the photo. Both gates are true with the posts. Recent crack in left had post appears to be just cosmetic but I might be wrong. It's hard to see any actual twist on the gates so I may be fooling myself. The RH post might have moved a tad I suppose.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to fix it. Although it doesn't look like it in the snaps, most of the problem lies with a bit of twist that the RH leaf has acquired. First thought was to attempt to pack the hinges. Whip the bolts out thought I. When I put them in, I drilled pilot holes and liberally applied vaseline to the galvanised steel bolts. They were put in by hand with a socket and ratchet, not rammed in with an impact wrench. As you can see I have tried to remove two of the big top bolts, quite gently with a 1/2" socket and both snapped like cheese. Oak has eaten the bolts. Like it does.

Because the weight is too much for me, I didn't want to take the gates off - just loosen each hinge plate and pack. If I snap the remaining top two bolts, as is likely, then it will be four deep plugs to cut and replace (not easy), and it may not work as a solution.

I wondered about a straining wire pulling from top left to bottom right. Basically my question is has anyone trued up old gates like this that moved after several years. Recommendations please.

* The gates have withstood quite extreme weather (really heavy wind and wet - then 35C summer) and an incident with one of our roving travelling friends who somehow got confused about which drive he was entering and managed to get his arm trapped, leading to a sad hospital visit and some very nice close up portrait photos. However, this trauma didn't do irreparable damage to the gates unless he somehow moved a post when his brakes failed on his vehicle.

 

[Mike G]

I've tried to true up doors and panels over the years, Adrian (nothing on that scale, though), and no amount of effort or ingenuity has ever succeeded. Twisted wood is tenacious, and resists all efforts to un-twist it. Given the size, I suspect that a beefy steel frame bolted to the back would be your only chance of success......but only you will know if that is going to add a prohibitive amount of weight to an already somewhat undersized power unit.

 

[9fingers]

I've used a strainer to straighten a much lighter shed door with success. I'd try that first then if it fails, chock and support the right hand gate and remove the hinge pin, use a hollow tube cutter (home made?) to remove the old screw stubs then replace with stainless bolts to allow experiments with packing.

 

[Malc2098]

Only from the photo, but that crack in the LH post could be significant.

Could you bolt through the post across the crack to pull it back together? Nothing lost if you do and it doesn't work.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Mike. I had a feeling you might say that. Steel frame would need to be box section to counteract this and I'm not sure it's worth it. Weight is not an issue at all, the problem with the CASE units is the gates act like a sail in a wind tunnel. Strong wind makes the sensors think the gate has hit something and it then stops. When constructed, I was unaware that our main drive is a wind tunnel

9f - how did you set the strainer? I can't quite get my head around it. It's a real piglet drilling bolts out as I know from experience, but will do it if necessary. It's awkward as the gates are in frequent use.

As a temporary measure I might make a fillet out of oak to close the wedge shaped gap. Only just thought of that.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Malc. Yes. I thought that at first. However, if it was a factor it would surely cause the top of the left hand gate to lean to the right away from vertical. But the gate edge is vertical on my level. This is iron hard oak now so the only way I could pull the crack closed is to fabricate an iron band all the way round I think. I will try a bolt (sunk in to head depth) on a big washer though. Nothing to lose.

 

[Mike G]

Only from the photo, but that crack in the LH post could be significant.

Could you bolt through the post across the crack to pull it back together? Nothing lost if you do and it doesn't work.

I'll have 5p with you Malcolm that Adrian wouldn't close that gap by 5mm with any amount of bolts across it. Besides, it looks as though it is in the wrong orientation to cause the issues with the gate.

 

[meccarroll]

It's a simple fix to adjust the gates on the hinges (you need to pack them)! Or re-set the gate posts! Latly make a new set of gates.

 

[Cabinetman]

Just a thought which I don’t really think is the cause, but if the planks have expanded more on one gate than the other it’s possible that could make the gate twist. were the planks all bought at the same time? Do you think the gaps between were always in existence/consistent?
It would mean that the planks expanded more at the top than the bottom though, sun on only part of the gates?
Ian

 

[AJB Temple]

Not simple to adjust the gates fore and back on the hinges as I noted above: bolts are oak rotten. No chance of me making new gates . It was bad enough the first time. Took me a few weeks.

Ian - the planks have room to move: I made sure of that when I made them. If the planks had moved then they would either have buckled, or made the frame joints pull apart. Neither has happened. All the Iroko was bought at the same time, from a reputable supplier, but in any case they were made 8 or 9 years ago and there was no issue for 6 or 7 years. The issue arose in the very hot and dry summer spell last year. I think I need to check the post alignment more carefully as within the relevant period we had the drive underwater briefly, and then a few months later dry as a bone. On clay.

 

[Cabinetman]

Fair enough, it was a long shot. Nice looking gates btw.

 

[the bear]

The issue arose in the very hot and dry summer spell last year.

I think this must have happened while I was blinking, I had a very different summer last year in Surrey

Sorry Adrian I don’t have much to add other than check the posts for movement and pack the hinges. Would it be possible to lift (or drop) both gates so you don’t have to get the threads of the old coach screws out?

Mark

 

[meccarroll]

You say the posts are oak and have corroded bolts but the gates are made of iroko, can you not try to make adjustment on the actual hinge on the gate side.

Failing that I would look at making adjustment on the hinge where threaded bolts are. You could look at elongating the hole where the threaded bold goes through on the gate side of the hinge. That would allow you to adjust the gates by tilting the gates either inward and outward to take up the twist.

 

[toolsntat]

If you want to give the hinges a bit of off set you might be able to put a bend in the eye bolt.
Otherwise elongating the hole on the hinge plate as above sounds good.
Both gate off operations though.
Another thought....
The plate with the snapped fixings , is this a top one?
Snapping the other two and remounting upside down may give a different fixing position.
Cheers, Andy

Crikey just noticed the twist, that's quite a bit !!

 

[Alasdair]

Might be an obvious question but have you checked the posts with a crossed string line to see if the movement is with the posts and not the gates? A jolt with a van could be enough to loosen the ground around the concrete.

You could pack the gate level using blocks and fox wedges, remove both hinge plates, loosen the adjusters and move the plates back on the post to get new fixing points at the same height.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks for the helpful replies guys. Your are right Alasdair I think checking the post alignment much more carefully is my first job.

Taking the gates off is a last resort as I can't lift them on my own. It took three of us to fit them originally. Raising the gates may be an option though and deal with all snapped coach bolts. That is an appealing idea that I had not considered and one I could do on my own with props and jacks. I would need to fit a barge board at the bottom to keep the rabbits out, but if I were ever to make them again they would be at least a foot taller.

 

[Alasdair]

Thanks for the helpful replies guys. Your are right Alasdair I think checking the post alignment much more carefully is my first job.

Taking the gates off is a last resort as I can't lift them on my own. It took three of us to fit them originally. Raising the gates may be an option though and deal with all snapped coach bolts. That is an appealing idea that I had not considered and one I could do on my own with props and jacks. I would need to fit a barge board at the bottom to keep the rabbits out, but if I were ever to make them again they would be at least a foot taller.

Can't you leave them at the height they are at and just move the pins on the post back an inch you look too have good adjustment on the eye bolts

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes! Why didn't I think of that. Brilliant idea. Also means I don't need to alter the automation placement (which is fiddly to set up electrically) Thank you. Can't believe it didn't occur to me. Will check post alignment with laser first then try shifting and packing hinges if posts are in line and vertical still.

 

[Alasdair]

I must still be old fashioned, I wouldn't have thought on using a laser I would just put up crossed string lines.

 

[toolsntat]

Yes! Why didn't I think of that. Brilliant idea. Also means I don't need to alter the automation placement (which is fiddly to set up electrically) Thank you. Can't believe it didn't occur to me. Will check post alignment with laser first then try shifting and packing hinges if posts are in line and vertical still.

Just a note to say that this will make the internal face of the gate a bit closer to the mechanism, will this matter?

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes, I get your point Andy. Thank you. It won't make it closer as such but will change the arc slightly. I am only proposing to move the hinges over far enough to drill in new bolts, so maybe 1.5cm. I may only need to do it on one gate leaf. The actuator arm bolts onto a bracket that is itself bolted to the gate and has a few cm of adjustment by using different locator points. I shall have to think about it a bit. Presently chucking it down with rain so not doing anything today.

 

[Eric the Viking]

Watching this thread with interest, as offspring #1 has just asked questions about doing an electrically-operated* vehicle gate for the side of their house in Tennessee.

Thankfully we're not going over until the winter (when other tasks await!), so I can't be co-opted over the summer.

I'm going to suggest he gets a contractor in...

*i.e. remote controlled, as they park at the back.

 

[duke]

My wife has been pushing for the same on our farm gate. Keep avoiding further discussion by saying I'm still working on you previous requests.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Do the gates come into contact with any kind of stop at the bottom of the two meeting stiles?

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes Mike. They have an adjustable metal stop set (not very deeply) in concrete in the centre. They soft close against that or (at least theoretically) any position I programme before they hit that. What's your thinking?

 

[Mike Jordan]

I’m wondering if it would be possible to increase the closing power of the operator on the left hand gate to apply enough pressure to take the twist out of the left hand gate, perhaps by packing out the hinge side of the operating arm and/ or moving the fixings a little. If the posts are truly vertical then there must be some reason for the gates to take on a new shape after nine years.
I think it’s vital to find out exactly what is twisted or out of plumb before attempting to sort it.
Those low angle braces are also of interest.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Mike. I have tried adjusting the actuator on the adjuster brackets - but only at the inner end, not the post end. I agree about the twist etc, and will have a proper look soon. Family events have taken precedence at the moment.

The mechanism is just a rotary screw. I can adjust the rate of closure (faster rotation of the screw basically) but as soon as any part of the gate touches anything, both gates stop. So once the bottom of the left gate makes contact with the right gate (which will have already closed as that sets off first). It stops, I have about 2" of adjustment at the bottom as it stands now.