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Holdfast holes - is there really much science behind palcement?

shafiq

shafiq

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Hi all. After many many moons just getting away with workholding using Irwin clamps, my Zeiss, Sheffield Tool Co, Axminster QR and sometimes my Stabila 1m level... or whatever else comes to hand. I've finally got a couple of nice Holdfasts from the UKW forum. Apparently made by an ex forum member or something like that and spoken highly of by WoodHaven shop.

Sorry for the background. So, I'm going to buy a 19mm auger type bit for my drill and have read briefly the piece by Chris Schwarz. But, do I really need to overthink where I make my holes! I'll eventually (maybe, but assume for benchdogs the holes don't go all the way through the bench!?) buy some 19mm benching to multipurpose the holes and also add a side platform to the joist/bench.

Any info is good info 🙂
 
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That's my outdoorsy bench (now slightly warped from a winter of outdoors) and these are the holdfasts. I'm going to get a 19mm bit now unless someone stops me.

I was thinking about 3 holes for now and there's 2 holdfasts being delivered this afternoon.

Mike G

Thread 'Holdfasts'

Could someone please measure the diameter of the shaft of their holdfast. I have a local blacksmith who has proven to be extremely cheap and good, and I want to get a price from him for making one or two.
 
Not fully answering your question but... I bought an MFT top, pre drilled, yet to use/fit... the holes go all the way through. Admittedly it's 19mm or 25mm thick but would have to check for you if you want?

Some MFT tops have 20mm holes - some 19mm. Confusing...
 
Accipiter said:
Not fully answering your question but... I bought an MFT top, pre drilled, yet to use/fit... the holes go all the way through. Admittedly it's 19mm or 25mm thick but would have to check for you if you want?

Some MFT tops have 20mm holes - some 19mm. Confusing...
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Hmmm. That answers it nicely thanks Accipter sir. I need to get this log processed (with the human milling machine - me... I feel rather poorly after getting about 4 boards out of it and a Disston saw already) as its getting in the way of my bike riding. Can't handle it sat outdoors for another year!! 2 or 3 more massive logs to process after this, but when I've recovered.
 
Here's a photo of the MFT top... it's 19mm thick and follows the 96mm centres for the holes. For some more information regarding such tops and the 'bench dog' fittings there are plenty of videos on YouTube to give the visual information of making such (should you choose) and the different size holes/dogs and reaming out if you 19mmholes but get 20mm dogs...

Good job I went to take the photo... I'd put some eggs on to boil... and *forgot* - until I walked into the kitchen... guess they're now well HARD boiled 🤷 😂
 

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Normally it would be a 19mm router cutter so making sure the holes are vertical... how good are you with a drill and bit for getting verticals? 😉. Either way have fun 🙂
 
Accipiter said:
Normally it would be a 19mm router cutter so making sure the holes are vertical... how good are you with a drill and bit for getting verticals? 😉. Either way have fun 🙂
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I usually measure thrice, cut twice. This time I plan yo make a jig to go with the roofers square and other square. I'm gonna get it straight, first time 😆
 
I suggest that you try it on a piece of scrap first. A 19mm top seems very thin to me. Holdfastds work by racking between the top of the hole and the bottom, and if these two points are very close together, there is nothing to rack against.
I'm not saying they won't work, they may work fine, but just check first.
S
 
I mentioned 'thickness' in relation to the *MFT* top holes Steve.. @shafiq hasn't stated a thickness of/or the *material* he may use. I understood he was asking in respect of the size of hole - and if they go all the way through.

Hold fasts are usually used on solid wood workbenches. I know that the MFT top I posted a pic of wouldn't stand up to such usage being MDF.
 
Steve Maskery said:
I suggest that you try it on a piece of scrap first. A 19mm top seems very thin to me. Holdfastds work by racking between the top of the hole and the bottom, and if these two points are very close together, there is nothing to rack against.
I'm not saying they won't work, they may work fine, but just check first.
S
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Steve. I think you misunderstood. 19mm hole in a joist type top. Its about 70mm thick so that hows far I will drill down Steve.
 
Steve Maskery said:
I suggest that you try it on a piece of scrap first. A 19mm top seems very thin to me. Holdfastds work by racking between the top of the hole and the bottom, and if these two points are very close together, there is nothing to rack against.
I'm not saying they won't work, they may work fine, but just check first.
S
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Agreed Steve. I'd also add that MDF of any denomination is probably too soft so continued use by a big lumpy iron holdfast in the holes is liable to distort or damage them. Better I fancy in a thick (as you say) hardwood bench top.

I have no experience of these bad boys having always used a Record one wot sits in an iron collar in the bench top - Rob
 
Before I start drilling into my joist/bench. Just to confirm that my holdfasts are 18mm Richard Tomes (or whatever the UKW guy was who made them back then).

I'm assuming then that a 19mm hole would be quite appropriate and I'll do a test run/fit shortly. Have made a 'squaring up' jig but won't use it just yet as I had to glue it up rather than pilot holes and screws!!
 

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I would suggest you drill a couple where you can see they will be needed and drill more when you have a need for one, from memory I only had about 4 in the top of my uk bench, plus a few on the front face, and in answer to your question the holes do need to go all the way through.
What diameter are your holdfasts btw? It can be that you might need a different size hole to enable the pad of the holdfast to sit flat on the work, depending on how thick the bench top is.
This is from a thread I did a couple of years ago.
Ian
IMG_2857.jpeg
 
Thats an interesting/insightful drawing and very much thanks for sharing it @Cabinetman My bench is 70mm (sorry, is that about 3 inch in US currency?) thick and the holdfasts are 18mm with my calipers. I went with a 19mm hole and seemed to have held my log nice and tight (just the one). Knocked straight out with a side side hit with my mallet.

Which means, I'm a happy person and won't be making any more holes just yet. Added bonus was that I managed to make the first hole straight with just my usual method of standing up 2 or 3 squares next to the drill bit. So the jig wasn't needed afterall but will come in handy for yhe rest of the holes.

Yes, I'll just go with 3 or 4 holes for now thanks Cabinetman/Ian 😊.
 
shafiq said:
Before I start drilling into my joist/bench. Just to confirm that my holdfasts are 18mm Richard James (or whatever the UKW guy was who made them back then).

I'm assuming then that a 19mm hole would be quite appropriate and I'll do a test run/fit shortly. Have made a 'squaring up' jig but won't use it just yet as I had to glue it up rather than pilot holes and screws!!
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That would be the late and dearly missed Richard Tomes.
 
My take on the location of holdfast holes is that they are also dog holes.....and dog holes need to be located much more precisely than if they were just for holdfasts. So, work out where your dog holes need to be, and your holdfasts will work from wherever because of all the normal things like does-feet, and scraps of wood which act as temporary clamps. I have dog holes located to work with a dog in my vice, and their location then set out a pattern for the rest of the bench.
 
Thanks Mike. I'll go and have a look at bench dog hole positioning. Its a 6 inch joist and so far my first hole I marked out at 4 inch from the front (length ways of the joist-bench) and 2 inch from the sides. I think a few at 2 inch in from the sides and 2 inch all round will work ok.

I'll only make a hole at a time though 😆
 
And once you start to look into dog holes, you may like to follow a more modern trend of having a tail vice on the end of your Bench which lines up with a row of dog holes for cramping pieces of wooden whilst you plane them, never felt the need to have a Tail vice myself.
Personally, I think it’s a better idea to have the Wood just up against a stop – this facilitates a good planning action, if it isn’t good the bit of wood will fall over or jump up as you’ve got the pressure applied incorrectly.
Ian
 
Cabinetman said:
And once you start to look into dog holes, you may like to follow a more modern trend of having a tail vice on the end of your Bench which lines up with a row of dog holes for cramping pieces of wooden whilst you plane them, never felt the need to have a Tail vice myself.
Personally, I think it’s a better idea to have the Wood just up against a stop – this facilitates a good planning action, if it isn’t good the bit of wood will fall over or jump up as you’ve got the pressure applied incorrectly.
Ian
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I couldn't agree more. I have never felt the need for a tail vice. I like to be able to pick the work up quickly and look at it. Dog holes, for me, are for positioning stops.
 
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