Japanese hand saws

[MY63]

Following on from my chisels thread (the advice was spot on) my next acquisition is going to be a new Japanese hand saw or 2 or maybe 4.
As well as building the workshop I do plan on making benches and cupboards for the inside.
I do have a lightweight cordless circular saw that I can use with my good hand for ripping the big panels.I do hope to make some more boxes at some point once the workshop is up and running and I have caught up with the backlog of orders that is building

IMG_3498 by my0771, on Flickr

IMG_0403 by my0771, on Flickr

IMG_0402 by my0771, on Flickr

This was the last box I made it will give you an idea of what I want to do.
I already have a small cross cut Kataba saw which is my go to saw and is more than 5 years old and about due a replacement.
I find the Japanese saws easier on my hands than European saws
My budget is £100 my first thought was to buy one handmade Ryoba saw and maybe a replacement blade for my current saw.
The handmade saws are described as "intollerant of abuse" the next option is to buy a set of four for £100 with replacable blades.

Thoughts and advice appreciated

 

[Malc2098]

I don't consider myself competent enough to be able to use expensive yet intolerant of abuse tools.

So, I went for these in the first instance which I found good to use and good value.

https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/b/Hardware/Hand-tools/Saws

 

[MY63]

Thanks Malcolm
I am also not qualified to use any tool that is intolerant of misuse
These are my current considerations

https://www.workshopheaven.com/set-of-4 ... ihiki.html

 

[Malc2098]

Thanks Malcolm
I am also not qualified to use any tool that is intolerant of misuse
These are my current considerations

https://www.workshopheaven.com/set-of-4 ... ihiki.html

Ooo. I've got a birthday coming up!

 

[MY63]

Yep so do I

 

[Rod]

You won’t go wrong with those.

I too love Japanese saws and they are my “go to’s.
I’ve got 3 of them, one is a Sunchild which David Charlesworth used to recommend plus some very fine and small Razor ones I used for making Doll Houses.

Rod

 

[Mike G]

I've no interest in Japanese saws, but thought I'd drop in and say that that's a lovely box, Michael.

 

[MY63]

It is a shame that Workshop Heaven don’t respond to emails I think they have just lost a customer.

 

[DaveL]

It is a shame that Workshop Heaven don’t respond to emails I think they have just lost a customer.

They usually do but I think this time of year it may well be a bit manic there.
Having met Matthew on a number of occasions, he is a really nice guy and I have no hesitation in recommending the tools he sells.

 

[MY63]

It is a shame that Workshop Heaven don’t respond to emails I think they have just lost a customer.

They usually do but I think this time of year it may well be a bit manic there.
Having met Matthew on a number of occasions, he is a really nice guy and I have no hesitation in recommending the tools he sells.

Thanks Dave
I think modern expectations are quite high with regards to contact which might be a little unfair on smaller business, although I think they should respond within 3 days even an automated response would be better than nothing. I appreciate what you say and they do have the saws I want.
Rutland's responded within 30 minutes but unfortunately don't have the saws I want.
If I get a chance I will telephone Workshop Heaven today.

 

[Mike G]

It is a shame that Workshop Heaven don’t respond to emails I think they have just lost a customer.

It is just one guy, and he is always as helpful and courteous as possible. I'd just give him a day or two's grace at the moment, in the middle of a christmas sale.

 

[MY63]

It is a shame that Workshop Heaven don’t respond to emails I think they have just lost a customer.

It is just one guy, and he is always as helpful and courteous as possible. I'd just give him a day or two's grace at the moment, in the middle of a christmas sale.

Thanks Mike I thought they were a small company but did not realise it was one guy I will give him a few more days to reply. I could not actually hold a saw at the moment anyway so I am not in a hurry. I just wanted more information before I made a decision.

 

[Woodster]

I bought one of the really cheap Japanese style saws with two blades in Lidl. I only bought it for final parting off on the wood lathe but it’s been brilliant at other little jobs as well. If I did any general carpentry I wouldn’t hesitate to get two or three full size Japanese saws. They can be pricey though so not sure where I’d go to get them.

 

[MY63]

I managed to speak to Workshop Heaven on the phone this afternoon indeed as Mike G suggested they are very busy at the moment. The Lady I spoke to is going to find the answer my question and get back to me.

 

[MY63]

My new set of Japanese hand saws are on their way I would advise anyone looking for tools to give them a ring rather than emailing they are really helpful.
Free shipping too. might be because I spent over £100.

 

[MY63]

A large box of Japanese saws were delivered by DHL today unfortunately they now have to spend 10 days sitting under a tree and I don't get to cut it down afterwards :lol:

2018-12-15_05-58-43 by my0771, on Flickr

The staff on the telephone were fantastic and answered my questions superfast delivery and excellent prices.

 

[Woodbloke]

I've always used the saws from Matt at WH. He's an unfailingly nice bloke and I've known him for years. When he was setting up his WH workshop some years ago he came down Salisbury to collect my old Coronet Elf lathe. I use the Gyokucho rip and cross cut saws on all my projects and thus far, neither has shed a tooth though both are getting a trifling tired now - Rob

 

[Woodster]

I’ve been using my small Lidl Japanese saw recently and I’m so impressed with how clean it cuts I’ve decided to get something a bit bigger. What to get though? I’ve been looking at the Axminster range of Japanese saws as they seem reasonabley priced but is there anywhere else I should look. I can’t see me doing any rip sawing so I guess it’s safe for me to get a Kataba? Any views on these or should I look st something else?

https://www.axminster.co.uk/japanese-26 ... saw-502400

https://www.axminster.co.uk/shokunin-ja ... 0mm-105013

https://www.axminster.co.uk/hardwood-ka ... 0mm-103692

 

[Alder]

I also can say I have met Mathew of Workshop Heaven, very nice man. He always has the time to Share his valuable knowledge with a customer, an existing one or a potential one.
I would therefore suggest a reason he is occasionally slow responding to emails is that his time is taken up answering the phone.
Russell

 

[MY63]

I’ve been using my small Lidl Japanese saw recently and I’m so impressed with how clean it cuts I’ve decided to get something a bit bigger. What to get though? I’ve been looking at the Axminster range of Japanese saws as they seem reasonabley priced but is there anywhere else I should look. I can’t see me doing any rip sawing so I guess it’s safe for me to get a Kataba? Any views on these or should I look st something else?

https://www.axminster.co.uk/japanese-26 ... saw-502400

https://www.axminster.co.uk/shokunin-ja ... 0mm-105013

https://www.axminster.co.uk/hardwood-ka ... 0mm-103692

I would strongly suggest contacting Workshop Heaven I did not speak to Matt but the lady I spoke to knew what she was talking about. I wanted to buy parts of a set but keeping the discount pro rata of course and it was a cheeky request. but she went away and rang me back later with a great deal. I bought the big Ryoba thinking I would never use it but when i needed to cut lap joints for my workshop sole plate in 100mm x 50mm it was fantastic.

Actually I think there is a mamber here selling some saws similar to what you are looking at so try the ads

 

[Alder]

I have tried two Japanese saws but without any success. The first one i purchased was a dovetail saw and despite numerous attempts did not lead to true sawing of neither tails or pins. Some time later there were a group of woodworkers promoting Japanese wood working practices at a Yandles show. The result was i purchased another Japanese saw, this time a saw with teeth on both sides and a label stating Backuma 250.
As a result of this thread i had another go with the Backuma on a piece of timber 30mm by 30mm but the various attempts were out of true every time.
Any hints as to how i achieve success please?
Thank you,
Russell

 

[Malc2098]

Now this might sound daft, but I've always been able to slice food, especially loaves, straight and thin, and I put it down to being taught how to saw at school, then loads of practice in a timber yard.

The best advice I was given was that the saw, your wrist, your elbow and your shoulder all had to be in line while you are sawing, slicing etc.

For the Japanese saw, I have always found that holding the handle towards the end, rather than in the middle or close to the blade, and at the same time use a very shallow angle downwards or upwards depending on which edge you are cutting, the one close to you or the one away from you, seems to work for me. I also found that making a straight cut across the work doesn't work for me, but starting with an edge does.

HTH. I have a book somewhere that describes that better. I'll look it up if you want.

 

[Rod]

I don’t have any difficulty with them at all and don’t have any special techniques, they just work really well. You have to remember that they cut on the pull stroke so don’t apply much pressure on the forword one.

Rod

 

[AndyP]

Russell, may sound a daft question but how to you get on with conventional western push saws?

 

[Woodster]

I needed to take a trip to Axminster tools to look at some other stuff and came away with a Kataba crosscut saw to try out. At £23.50 it was the going rate for this type. Hopefully it’ll get a bit warmer soon so I can try it out.

 

[Alder]

Thank you for the replies.
Andyp: My sawing with Western saws is pretty good. As only an occasional woodworker it took some practice.
Malc2098. I have tried sawing as you suggest holding the handle towards the end with a degree of success.
I am busy at he moment but will continue to practice and might even venture to make a dovetail joint using the Japanese saw to do the sawing.
i will report back sometime and might even start a sub thread on what to make with my off cuts! (tongue firmly in Cheek)
Russell

 

[Woodbloke]

I find the Japanese saws easier on my hands than European saws
My budget is £100 my first thought was to buy one handmade Ryoba saw and maybe a replacement blade for my current saw.
The handmade saws are described as "intollerant of abuse" the next option is to buy a set of four for £100 with replacable blades.

Thoughts and advice appreciated

I've been using the Gyokucho saws from WH for some years now and I find them superb. Previously I'd used a couple of offerings from Ax which weren't even close; they cut quite well but I found that teeth snapped off far too easily...and I was being careful!

A couple of days ago, I rang up Matt at WH and discussed the merits or otherwise of the hand made Japanese saws that he's offering on the website. The standard replaceable blade saws are excellent but are the base line or starting point for these tools; he mentioned that a hand made saw is a quantum leap up, but they won't suffer fools and are 'intolerant of abuse'.
After the natter with Matt, I decided to gird loins and take a punt so a couple of days later....



....these beauties were delivered, one of which is the Gyokucho TS130, the uber-sexy dovetail saw with a blade that's only 0.15mm thick
I haven't yet had a chance to use them, but the two larger saws weren't supplied with blade guards, so I need to get hold of some slide binders from WHS. Initial thought's are that the teeth on the hand made rip are much finer than the saw it replaced but if peeps are interested I'll post a review later on - Rob

 

[Woodbloke]

The best advice I was given was that the saw, your wrist, your elbow and your shoulder all had to be in line while you are sawing, slicing etc.

For the Japanese saw, I have always found that holding the handle towards the end, rather than in the middle or close to the blade, and at the same time use a very shallow angle downwards or upwards depending on which edge you are cutting, the one close to you or the one away from you, seems to work for me. I also found that making a straight cut across the work doesn't work for me, but starting with an edge does.

This was taken a few years ago and shows Nagatsu-san at 'The Japanese Tool Group Society' (now disbanded) near Salisbury using one of his ryoba's to rip a bit of timber.



He wasn't a saw maker, but a professional tuner; this particular saw has gullets between groups of teeth to help clear sawdust. Superb to use and note the angle of attack and where he holds it - Rob