Jimmy Mack's 'Shop Build (photos & video)

[Mike G]

.....Out of interest is there a reason you did it the other way round on your build. Perhaps as the frames are already assembled so there's less possible disturbance?

Well, I got my brickwork level so had options .....But mainly because I placed a 95mm wide frame on top of a 165mm wide plinth. The flap of (165mm wide) DPC outside the frame had to take a 45 degree fillet of wood on top, so if it had been on mortar that would have needed to be leveled.

When I posted yesterday I had forgotten that you were also placing a stud wall on a broader plinth, in which case my advice (which assumed a 100mm wall on 100mm masonry) may not have been right. You need the DPC to be the full width of the masonry, and it might be easier to do that by putting the DPC down first. However, it will need a slurry of mortar* underneath it, just to protect it, so I reckon you are going to end up with an overall mortar depth of getting on for 30mm in places.

* You could replace this with a few tube-fulls of silicon.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Right ok...is this because the DPC will be flapping about a bit above the bricks as I'm packing up so much?

The silicon would remove one slippage layer... how much are we talking? A couple of beads? or a film layer?

The Devil's in the detail... eh?

 

[Jimmy Mack]

My plinth is approx 220mm, the plate and wall are 150mm..I'll be making up the 60+mm on the battens and counter battens.

This discussion is really useful, it doesn't look like I'll be starting till next week now as I'm still not quite running on all 4 cylinders, shame cause the weather is cracking here in Yorkshire! 19 deg's!

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Even though I've a bit to do before... something that now needs to be ordered and has been on my mind is how on earth I'm gonna get an ...

8m x 140mm x 450mm GLULAM, 250kg ridge beam in place!?

I'm looking at various lifting devices available from HSS hire & Co. but I'm also wondering...Does it actually have to be a single piece? Could it possibly be made up of smaller sections that are then sandwiched/ fixed together in situ?

Jim

 

[Wizard9999]

Guess that question needs to be answered in the context of how much able bodied 'assistance' you can muster at the time.

Terry.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Guess that question needs to be answered in the context of how much able bodied 'assistance' you can muster at the time.

Terry.

'Hey guys, I'm having a BBQ...meat and beers on me...woo! bscene-drinkingcheers:

Ohh...and while you're here' :lol:

 

[Mike G]

Even though I've a bit to do before... something that now needs to be ordered and has been on my mind is how on earth I'm gonna get an ...

8m x 140mm x 450mm GLULAM, 250kg ridge beam in place!?

I'm looking at various lifting devices available from HSS hire & Co. but I'm also wondering...Does it actually have to be a single piece? Could it possibly be made up of smaller sections that are then sandwiched/ fixed together in situ?

Jim

Have we see a design of your roof? I can't remember.

 

[Wizard9999]

Guess that question needs to be answered in the context of how much able bodied 'assistance' you can muster at the time.

Terry.

'Hey guys, I'm having a BBQ...meat and beers on me...woo! bscene-drinkingcheers:

Ohh...and while you're here' :lol:

Maybe before the beers, lol.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Maybe before the beers, lol.

Yes, that could be a potential disaster!

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Have we see a design of your roof? I can't remember.

The roof, a vaulted roof design is in the very first post, I do also have some building notes with the section sizes from the Structural engineer. One change I do want to do to the framing is to NOT have a 'ballon frame'? (possible Americanism as I've a framing book written by an American Author) where my gable wall studs are full height - sole plate to rafters. I feel it'll be much simpler to build and raise (on my own) square frames all round at eaves height, then double wall plate assembling the gables and rafters and continuing the studs lines up in the gables directly over the lover frame studs...if that makes sense...a bit like this (represented by red lines). Very similar to your build approach mike... but with a crane for the ridge beam!

 

[Mike G]

Well, if you have no ties (joists), then your ridge beam does need to be in one continuous length, and as I think I said, it sounds about the right sort of size. However, one principle truss across the middle of the building could reduce it quite a lot in section, and could allow you to divide the ridge beam into two. Obviously you have to balance out the beefy principle truss against the difficulty of getting such a big ridge into place.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

In hindsight I think I would of got the roof designed with trusses, I was OK until the engineers report and him literally doubling the section sizes! A bit worrying how much the architect was out by! By then I felt a bit committed to the design and I did specifically request the clearance height...however If I can get the beam in it will look great...just might be a bit of a challenge (to be polite)...Speedy tool hire do some suitable lifts, and I've messaged a local farmer and marquee friend to see if he has any ideas or lifting gear.

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[Jimmy Mack]

Here's a better illustration... (sans a slight over hang at the front I'd like to incorporate, about 400mm). The illustration also shows 3 sections forming the ridge beam ?

 

[Mike G]

Ah, I see what you mean now. A laminated ridge beam.....I thought you meant to divide it up in length. Again, your engineer will have to calculate this for you, and that will mean a fastenings schedule....but yes, in theory, that's do-able. As I said, if it were me I would have one truss in the middle of the room, so that your ridge beam's span was halved. That would make it a great deal smaller in section.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

As I said, if it were me I would have one truss in the middle of the room, so that your ridge beam's span was halved. That would make it a great deal smaller in section.

Mike, hmm... You got me thinking, maybe I should explore this. I wasn't expecting the possibility of HALVING the ridge section, this would be a LOT more manageable - and - you may AGAIN be saving me £'s if I can use a standard section...as the GLULAM's are £££!

The bottom cord of a central truss; approximately how low would it be? Not as low as the wall plate height? (I'm wondering if I would be compromising much height). Just a chord/tie or would it be a post design...such as a Queen / King Post?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Mike G]

It could easily have a raised tie. I'm just going out badger watching, but I'll come back to this later or tomorrow. Don't forget, halving the span of the ridge beam doesn't necessarily halve its size.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Mike, I've had a good think about this over the weekend and I want to try and stick with the vaulted ceiling, I think it'll be worth it in the end. I may look into the laminations, but I suspect I'll have to joint boards to get the width.

Tomorrow I shall finally be sticking my DPC down (with silicon) and packing my mud cill to level ... after I receive and hand ball the 400 linear m of 6x2, C24 up to the back of the property!





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[Mike G]

You'd still have a vaulted ceiling, Jim, but with one exposed truss in the middle. Here is one of a myriad ways you could do it:



All simple home made stuff, erected in halves, and with the central tie (2.7m headroom) bolted on afterwards. With a ridge beam spanning only 3.6m, I reckon you would be using standard off the shelf timber rather than a glulam. Anyway, your choice.

 

[RogerS]

..... I've messaged a local farmer and marquee friend to see if he has any ideas or lifting gear.
.....

Look into hiring a Genie Lift if you can.

http://www.workingatheightltd.com/mater ... 0Sheet.PDF

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Thanks Roger, the genie seems a good choice, some are available with out riggers.

Waiting for all my timber this morning, part of delivery includes my 9x2 floor joists. So a question for you chaps...

A couple of the masonry hangers are about 5mm too low. Is it bad practice to pack up in a hanger?...slate, plastic,gms strap. The alternative is to notch ALL the other joists down or use furring strips on top

Jim




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[Jimmy Mack]

Mike I like the design of the truss, it would make a smart feature in a clean space... I might knock boards off it when I'm planning [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY]

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[Rod]

I'd pack the odd few - I'm sure timber would do - nailed to keep secure.

Rod

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Is it worth a blob of no nails in the seat of the hanger to prevent squeakage?

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[Mike G]

Is it worth a blob of no nails in the seat of the hanger to prevent squeakage?

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Not really. By the time you've nailed the manufacturer's recommended number of twist nails into the joist etc through the hangers, there'll be no movement. In answer to your other question, pack with ply, and for fine adjustment, lead, and DPC.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

And they're (finally) off ...

...said the monkey as he slide down the razor blade

Took about 2 hours to hand ball all the framing timber up to the site...

Popped out for a few bits from the workshop, and the cable in my hand brake decided to fail and roll my car into a post - ar$e and dented ar$e, nothing too serious fortunately.

Picked up some cement and silicon, and got back to it, cleaning the perimeter, checking for any lumps and bumps. Sealed with some PVA bond

Tea n cake...it's baking red hot here in Yorkshire!

DPC down with silicon. Taped joins. Left overlap rolled back in door opening.

Cut, laid out plate and straps.

Housed for straps with palm router

Cut some wedges for tomorrow's packing and cementing of plates

Floor joist and OSB sub floor delivery early doors for tomorrow's work out !.

Jim

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[Jimmy Mack]

Floor joists arrived, wasn't expecting them to be quite as narrow as 44mm (finished) on a 50mm board, I'll have to do some packing in my 50mm hangers...Made a start cementing the boards down...mixing the cement was a bit of new one for me...wouldn't want to do too much of THAT without a mixer.

Rain stopped play. So off to pick up more sand and cement and some tan timber for the sleeper wall plate. A good root at the workshop for skinny ply for packers.

Today the rain held off...So on with the mud cill. Smashed up an old broken pot to add to the thicker cement bed at the back (mike, top tip). Leveled the plates to a line previously marked off on the wall with a laser, so no need to use the level. Set the combination square and away I went. Used a little bullet level to get my width plumb (front to back).

Wedges to prevent any sinking...

Gingerly popped the straps on after lunch

All went well, except the front plate from yesterday which lifted / cracked very slightly...kind of to be expected I suppose with the two slippage planes. The cement had gone off, so should *hopefully* be fine.

Made a start on the floor, sleeper wall plate on DPC, then joists. Bought some sheradised twist nails to pin the joists to the hangers, but soon ditched those for screws for fear of knocking my hangers too loose, as the nails need quite a bashing!

Radox time...My back is busted from that ruddy cement mixing [emoji12]

Jim


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[Mike G]

Well done Jim.

You're nearly past the hardest bit of the build, so your back shouldn't suffer much longer.

 

[Wizard9999]

Hell's bells that looks good! You even manage to keep the site über tidy when you are working on it, awsome.

Terry.

 

[Crispylettuce]

Good progress!!

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[Mike G]

Just a minor comment on your floor joists, Jim. It's a good idea to avoid cantilevering over a support if you can, because any deflection in the middle of the long span will result in upward pressure on the cantilevered end, which can raise the boarding, or just squeak at that point. Best to cut the joists off level with the outside face of the support wall.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Just a minor comment on your floor joists, Jim. It's a good idea to avoid cantilevering over a support if you can, because any deflection in the middle of the long span will result in upward pressure on the cantilevered end, which can raise the boarding, or just squeak at that point. Best to cut the joists off level with the outside face of the support wall.

Ah OK, thanks Mike,

OK leaving the first 8?

They're packed and nailed/ tosh nailed with the gun (annual ring shank). Not sure I can face rag'ing them apart :?

I'll shorten the rest from here on. How does that sound?

Cheers Jim

 

[Jimmy Mack]

or ...

I could plane / trim away the tops that over hang on the first 8

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Absolutely baking again today...plenty of sun screen!

All floor joists in!...chopped the tops off the overhanging ones at the back with a chisel. 180mm

All in all, it took a bit longer than expected to level, but I was keen to have it SUPER level , the concrete floor at work is awful and makes setting up projects a real PITA!

I just remembered that I'm putting spira extraction ducting under the floor (marmite topic! )...bobbed out for some (3m)... that's running perpendicular to the joists which needed to go in before they went down. (R.H.S.)

Under the blue rain tarp, is a sheet of 18 mm OSB, which I used to double check the level as the two floors meet in the middle.

That's me done for this week, daddy-day-care tomorrow.

Have a good weekend.

Cheers Jim

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[Mike G]

Looks great Jim. It's well worth taking a little extra trouble at this stage to get things absolutely level. It makes life much easier later.

 

[Rod]

Looking very ship shape - by that I mean good [emoji3]

Rod

 

[StevieB]

Indeed - some seriously impressive attention to detail going on here, well done!

Steve

 

[chataigner]

I've just read this thread through from the start - makes fascinating reading, a splendid project. Please keep the posts coming.

 

[AndyP]

I've just read this thread through from the start - makes fascinating reading, a splendid project. Please keep the posts coming.

:text-+1:

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Thanks for all the positive messages, very much appreciated [emoji2]

A pal popped round on Sat afternoon for a bit of unexpected work on the project. We got the OSB floor/deck temporary down and fixed, spaced with 3mm ply and about 20mm round the edges. The panels are staggered.

Made a start on the framing today...

Here's using a wedge to knock up the studs flush with the head and sole plates. Spacers for layout.

Gingerly lifted the first frame up an off cut at a time (see blocks on deck). 6x2's make for a heavy frame at 400c's

The neighbour kindly helped to get the bigger frames up...

The stud sticking up (mid, back) supports the ridge beam...will be one of three in a sandwich with the walls.

I'm thinking of putting a door in the back left...it'll help with the build and will be useful for storing a few bits at the back...plus a through draft may be useful from time to time.

Anyone know a typical frame opening size for a single door (nothing too big, perhaps 30")...I'll have to trim the top two courses of brick...what's the best way too do this....grinder? (Which I don't have [emoji2] )


Cheers Jim

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[Crispylettuce]

I'd go for a grinder just for simplicity, but I'm sure someone else might have a more elegant method! Getting the frame up must be a good feeling!

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