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London

Mike G

Mike G

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Mike
I am never ever setting footing in that hell-hole ever again. Ever.

It's not (just) the hordes. Nor the filth. Nor the shut-on-a-whim tube stations. Nor the stupid prices for everything. Oh no. No, no, it's far worse than that. Some spotty faced little oik on the underground offered me his seat! I mean, the cheeky little so-and-so treated me like an old person. Sheesh. Up with that I shall not put, so the capital can try its best to get along without me.

-

Oh, and if you're contemplating going to the Wildlife Photography exhibition at the Natrual History Museum, book in advance (both for the museum and for the exhibition), and be prepared to be in one long snake 4 or 5 people deep around the whole thing. Great photos, ridiculous numbers of people.
 
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We visit London several times a year, and stay in our son’s flat in Tottenham Hale. We are here currently, minding our son’s dog while he is holidaying in Tokyo. I was born and spent my childhood in SE London, and wouldn’t want to live here, but we love spending time here. The flat is warm (unlike our house), secure, and the area is, as they say, up-and-coming. There is a fabulous, and reasonably priced, pizzeria just up the road, a nice pub round the corner, and the transport links are superb. The bus stop is yards away, the tube and overground station 5 minutes walk. Buses come along every 5 minutes, tube train on the Victoria line every 2 minutes, overground to Liverpool St every 10 minutes. And it’s cheap - we can link our senior railcards to our Oyster cards and get 33% discount on already cheap off-peak travel. The transport network in our part of Northumberland is medieval in comparison.

Although my wife is not disabled she has obvious mobility issues. There has literally never been an occasion when she has boarded a bus or train and somebody has not offered her a seat.
 
Marineboy, regrettably, I am firmly with Mike. No1 child spent18 long months there as an intern, working for Penguin, so we visited, and saw, a lot. Her first job, in The South Bank Centre, was also for 18 months.
Like Mike, I hated the capital for all the reasons he alludes to. Ness had a 45 minute commute from Finchley and that Underground line is simply ghastly.
Quite obviously, Tottenham is a more edifying place than Finchley?
 
I know what you mean. I used to have a weekday flat in Butlers Wharf on 2 stories overlooking Tower Bridge, and London was great fun. From where we live now the station is literally 5 mins away and then 35 mins into Cannon Street or London Bridge (Southwark Cathedral, Borough Market etc). The City itself is not too touristified and is clean. I used to get around London by motorbike as that is quick and easy to park. For cars and taxis it is gridlocked now and Khan has ruined transport. When we lived in Shepherds Bush and then Kensington it was nice, but getting across London was already a pain. It has become crushingly expensive to eat out and go to the theatre, concerts or shows in London now.
 
Adrian, you’re right re London prices, but we have simple tastes and London museums are free and among the best in the world. And our son’s flat faces east over the Walthamstow Wetlands and watching the sun rise from the balcony is a delight. I always bring my binoculars and there is a great variety of wetland and woodland birds to observe.
 
The museums may indeed be free, Nick (not all of them, I think), but the queues and queues of people waiting to get in are horrendous. There were airport-style zig-zag queues outside the Natural History Museum, and then the entirety of the main hall was just one giant football-like crowd. I haven't been for 10 or 15 years, and remember being able to see each exhibit for as long as I wanted, and without anyone in front of me. The dinosaur section was trivialised, with the big model T Rex dressed up in a christmas hat, scarf and jumper, for pity's sake...........and the throng just moved en-masse around the section with no-one able to stop and contemplate anything at all. We even had to queue to get out of the building when we'd had enough. It was an incredibly disappointing visit.
 
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Mike G said:
The museums may indeed be free, Nick (not all of them, I think), but the queues and queues of people waiting to get in are horrendous. There airport-style zig-zag queues outside the Natural History Museum, and then the entirety of the main hall was just one giant football-like crowd. I haven't been for 10 or 15 years, and remember being able to see each exhibit for as long as I wanted, and without anyone in front of me. The dinosaur section was trivialised, with the big model T Rex dressed up in a christmas hat, scarf and jumper, for pity's sake...........and the throng just moved en-masse around the section with no-one able to stop and contemplate anything at all. We even had to queue to get out of the building when we'd had enough. It was an incredibly disappointing visit.
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When we last went to London (many years ago as London, and the south-east in general, is somewhere I try to avoid!), we went to the Faraday Museum at the Royal Institution. Entry was free and you get to see the lab where Faraday worked and stand in the famous lecture theatre or browse the library with loads of really old scientific works. We really enjoyed it.

We were the only people there at the time, whereas when we later walked past the "London Dungeons", people were queuing round the block to get in 🤷‍♂️.
 
It must be a challenge for the museums to balance the need to get high footfall (I think part of their funding is reliant on it) and giving a quality experience. I wanted to see the Stubbs painting of Whistlejacket at the National Gallery. It was great to get in for free but not great to then have to shuffle round like a penguin as the selfie generation tried to do their stuff with anything vaguely famous. After an hour I got to the hall the painting is in … which was closed due to an incident with some just stop oil twits!
 
Spare a thought for those of us who work there! Thankfully I only go three or four times a year but will have been twice this month on Friday.
The same happened to me a few months ago, Mike. It fairly takes the wind out of you when it first happens.
 
I agree free etc - it is a huge benefit, but you do need to pick off peak times and not half term etc. Contrast Netherlands - we go to Dutch museums a lot in Den Hague and Amsterdam. It's not free and is quite expensive. However, you get timed tickets for the major exhibitions and you are not rushed round and can get very close. The Vermeer exhibition was incredible, and we really liked the British Fashion exhibition (Westwood, Diana's dresses etc) which was beautifully staged. I would rather pay and it it not be jam packed, than it being free and rammed.
 
Phil said:
:LOL: That is starting to show your age! :ROFLMAO:

Is there not a Pensioners day or Pensioners special?
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Phil,
Just checked wiki.
Mike isn’t yet a pensioner.
Couple of years away from his bus pass .
With hindsight, I think I’d be a bit annoyed too
 
Mike G said:
I am never ever setting footing in that hell-hole ever again. Ever.

It's not (just) the hordes. Nor the filth. Nor the shut-on-a-whim tube stations. Nor the stupid prices for everything. Oh no. No, no, it's far worse than that. Some spotty faced little oik on the underground offered me his seat! I mean, the cheeky little so-and-so treated me like an old person. Sheesh. Up with that I shall not put, so the capital can try its best to get along without me.

-

Oh, and if you're contemplating going to the Wildlife Photography exhibition at the Natrual History Museum, book in advance (both for the museum and for the exhibition), and be prepared to be in one long snake 4 or 5 people deep around the whole thing. Great photos, ridiculous numbers of people.
Click to expand...
Wow Mike you sound like me moaning about things to my wife. Yea I can be grumpy too so she says.
 
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Mike G said:
......... Some spotty faced little oik on the underground offered me his seat! I mean, the cheeky little so-and-so treated me like an old person. Sheesh. ............
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It happens to all of us eventually :ROFLMAO:
 
Cabinetman said:
Trains! Don’t get me started, can be good but mostly aren’t, stopped using them after being let down yet again, stuck in the middle of a journey, missed the flight etc. Grrrrr
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Yup. Whenever we’ve gone away on a long haul flight, we’ve driven down the night before and stayed in a hotel. Removal of stress makes a happy start. The best example is the hotel inside the South Terminal at Gatwick. Parking feet away. In the morning, leave room, walk a few paces and check in. Bliss.

London has its attractions…..the Proms, the Royal Opera House, art galleries and has been mentioned museums. One just needs a load of dosh to float above all the dross. Must do the Lottery.
 
I still think London is an incredible city. I don't miss going there to work every day, and certainly wouldn't want to live there (I wouldn't want to live in any city), but, objectively, I think it's a pretty amazing place with a lot to offer.
 
The general consensus seems to be that no-one would really like to live in London. Can’t blame you. I lived there for a couple of years, and subsequently flew down 4 or 5 times a month when I was in practice. The disadvantages outwegh the advantages.

I utterly loath the tube. I find it stiflingly hot, even in winter, crowded and dirty. I used to live at the top end of Marryat Road (apparently it is very important – to the locals - to clarify that is Wimbledon Village, not Wimbledon), and walked down to the station, where I could get a proper train to Waterloo, and then walk across Waterloo Bridge to Lincoln’s Inn Fields where I then worked. All to avoid using the tube.

The other thing I dislike about the tube is that you loose sense of where everything is in relation to each other. The tube map is a thing of excellence and beauty, but not geographically accurate.

The clockwork orange (Glasgow underground) is yet another thing.

Anyway, my sympathies MikeG. It’s the other end of the path that starts when you stop getting asked for ID when you buy alcohol.
 
Lurker said:
Phil,
Just checked wiki.
Mike isn’t yet a pensioner.
Couple of years away from his bus pass .
With hindsight, I think I’d be a bit annoyed too
Click to expand...

At 64 he would qualify for a pensioner card ;)

My one arrived by courier when I turned 63.
 
Mike G said:
I am never ever setting footing in that hell-hole ever again. Ever.

It's not (just) the hordes. Nor the filth. Nor the shut-on-a-whim tube stations. Nor the stupid prices for everything. Oh no. No, no, it's far worse than that. Some spotty faced little oik on the underground offered me his seat! I mean, the cheeky little so-and-so treated me like an old person. Sheesh. Up with that I shall not put, so the capital can try its best to get along without me.
Click to expand...
Conversely, we quite like going to Londres and do so every couple of months or so. What we attempt to do is to try and visit some of less well known, less touristy spots and we make a list of interesting stuff we want to see. F'intstance, there's a huge model of Old London Bridge in this Wren church just inside the City on the north bank of the Thames and I stood on the current London Bridge and tried to imagine the old one no more than a cricket pitch length away. The church is also well worth a visit on it's own and when were there the bell ringers were in full flow; we stopped to listen for at least half an hour...then we climbed The Monument (we can't resist a flight of steps) Then off to the Clink Prison (most of which you see inside actually happened) and finally we managed to find the last remaining original piece of The Marshallsea Prison where a certain Charles Dickens father was imprisoned in 1824 for debt; the prison features in the novel 'Little Dorit'.

On that particular trip, we went around London (as you do) by Toob and I recollect standing next to one old boy (probably past 80) who was next to me. Behind him was a bloody obnoxious fat woman with two equally fat children and not one of them got up and offered the chap his seat which was something drummed into me when I was a lad; apparently it rarely seems to happen these days except perhaps in your case Mike :ROFLMAO:

There's some great stuff to see in London, a lot of which is 'off piste' but you've got to go and look for it - Rob

Edit - having just come back from Japan, London is a far more interesting place to delve into than Tokyo.
 
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When Rob (Woodbloke) commented that London is a far more interesting place to delve into than Tokyo, it should be borne in mind that the Americans did a far more thorough job of destroying Tokyo that the Germans did of London. There are also some cities in Germany that don’t have as many old buildings as there were prior to 1939.

As for London generally, having been raised in what was Surrey, but is now a London borough, and having worked in the West End and City for over 10 years, I wasn’t sorry to move away over 40 years ago and, since then, my visits have been primarily for work and such visits never gave me much incentive to return. The crowds of tourists around SW1, in particular, are really off-putting.

In recent years, when travelling on the Tube on occasional visits, I’ve been offered a seat on several occasions. The first couple of times, I was somewhat affronted to be thought of as being old and infirm and, even now, if offered, I tend to politely decline. However, I’ve noticed that those offering up their seats tend to be in their early 20s and usually female. If the seats marked for older people or pregnant women are occupied by men in their 40s, the chances are that they will ignore anyone who might reasonably have need for them. I must confess that I am very much impressed by the politeness of those young people who offer to give up their seats and hope that my refusal doesn’t put them off doing so for others who may need them.
 
never worked any closer to the City than the south side of Putney bridge which required an early morning and mid-evening drive along the south circular from Bromley. This was in the 80s -early 90s. I had occasion to retrace the route about 5 years ago and I was shocked by how difficult driving that route had become, speed bumps and pedestrian lights seemingly every 100 yards.
IMHO one of the problems all big city tourist spots suffer from is mass tourism. The British Museum even outside the UK school holidays was a nightmare. I know it’s selfish but if I had my way I would ban coach tours and package holidays and leave people to have the adventure of finding their own way around.
FWIW Paris is no better and the transport system, Metro, is far far worse, disability access was awful before the olympics and everything I have read since indicates that it has improved very little since.
 
Go
Woodbloke said:
Conversely, we quite like going to Londres and do so every couple of months or so. What we attempt to do is to try and visit some of less well known, less touristy spots and we make a list of interesting stuff we want to see. F'intstance, there's a huge model of Old London Bridge in this Wren church just inside the City on the north bank of the Thames and I stood on the current London Bridge and tried to imagine the old one no more than a cricket pitch length away. The church is also well worth a visit on it's own and when were there the bell ringers were in full flow; we stopped to listen for at least half an hour...then we climbed The Monument (we can't resist a flight of steps) Then off to the Clink Prison (most of which you see inside actually happened) and finally we managed to find the last remaining original piece of The Marshallsea Prison where a certain Charles Dickens father was imprisoned in 1824 for debt; the prison features in the novel 'Little Dorit'.

On that particular trip, we went around London (as you do) by Toob and I recollect standing next to one old boy (probably past 80) who was next to me. Behind him was a bloody obnoxious fat woman with two equally fat children and not one of them got up and offered the chap his seat which was something drummed into me when I was a lad; apparently it rarely seems to happen these days except perhaps in your case Mike :ROFLMAO:

There's some great stuff to see in London, a lot of which is 'off piste' but you've got to go and look for it - Rob

Edit - having just come back from Japan, London is a far more interesting place to delve into than Tokyo.
Click to expand...
Good shout regarding the Wren churches Rob. St Lawrence Jewry on Gresham Street is worth seeing if only for the spire that appears to be at an odd angle from Gresham Street but perfect from the Guidhall. Apparently many Wren churches do not have square walls.
 
MartinF said:
When Rob (Woodbloke) commented that London is a far more interesting place to delve into than Tokyo, it should be borne in mind that the Americans did a far more thorough job of destroying Tokyo that the Germans did of London.
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I wasn't going to mention the War, but you're spot on. As pretty much all of pre-war Tokyo was constructed of wood, the B29s did a spectacularly thorough job of burning the whole place to the ground. As such, Tokyo now mostly consists of ultra modern, high rise blocks in much the same way as the centre of Berlin - Rob
 
Indeed Rob. Oddly enough modern day Tokyo when we first went 10 years ago reminded me of Coventry, but more sprawling. Lots of greyness. On (what was then) my grandfather's farm, there was the remains of a Heinkel fuselage and tail in the woods. It's probably still there - I haven't looked in decades.
 
It happened to me the other day - for the first time. Worse yet, it was a woman of around 40 who offered me a seat. She must have thought I was totally stupid as well as old because it took a moment to realise what was happening, I apologised to her because I thought I had stepped on her foot or something to cause her to move.
 
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