StevieB
Nordic Pine
Very impressive Mike, thanks for sharing and updating this thread as often as you do.
Steve
Steve
-
Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!
Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)
- Thread starter Mike G
- Start date
Rod
Old Oak
Perhaps one of these could have staged some time and grunting?
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/pp+unbeatable ... omo=DK6686
Rod
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/pp+unbeatable ... omo=DK6686
Rod
Morning Mike
For lifting stuff with ropes, have you seen the Trucker's hitch? (AKA as a Liverpool hitch)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucker%27s_hitch
It gives 2:1 purchase without faffing about with pulleys.
The Sheepshank version can be tied with one end of the rope fixed.
Cheers
Dave
For lifting stuff with ropes, have you seen the Trucker's hitch? (AKA as a Liverpool hitch)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucker%27s_hitch
It gives 2:1 purchase without faffing about with pulleys.
The Sheepshank version can be tied with one end of the rope fixed.
Cheers
Dave
Rod
Old Oak
I use that a lot for various jobs - never knew its name even though I was in the Boy Scouts [emoji2]
Rod
Rod
Love the fireplace Mike. Q about the green oak beams going in, are they in any way structural or are they purely a "decorative" feature? Presumably these will also shrink in situ, do you have to patch between the shrunk beam and the plaster in a year or 2, or is there a way to deign/build this to overcome the problem?
Mark
Mark
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Deejay":380hudz9 said:
Hi Dave. Yes. I know it well. I use it all the time for tying loads down. Too much friction for raising a heavy beam, though, and also as the rope shortens it is trying to turn the beam over sideways.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
the bear":2o0xqzrb said:
Yes, inevitably I will be redecorating, including re-plastering next to the beams, in a couple of years time. The little rebate on the top of the beams is the best thing I can come up with for making that redecoration easier, because at least edge of the plasterboard won't be exposed, meaning an awkward gap to fill. All I have to do is patch up the gap in the the thin-coat. Interestingly, it is plaster and mortar alongside beams which permanently record the beam's starting width, thus enabling you to measure exactly how much it has shrunk.....which is why I am confident with my 8% of width figure. (They can of course bow an awful lot more than that, so you have to understand whether you are measuring bowing or shrinkage).
Must have missed the bit about the rebate, just re read the last page and seen it now. Thats a good idea.
From what I see you're supporting the beam on the fireplace and bolting through to the joists above along its length. The floor above is already holding itself up, so is it purely decorative or does it add extra support?
Mark
From what I see you're supporting the beam on the fireplace and bolting through to the joists above along its length. The floor above is already holding itself up, so is it purely decorative or does it add extra support?
Mark
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Great work and very interesting post as ever. Sorry if I have missed the explanation, but why the sloped brickwork on only one side of the fireplace? I have to say I am a sucker for symmetry so it grates a bit with me at the moment.
Terry.
Terry.
Rod
Old Oak
Wall on the other side I think?
Rod
Rod
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Wizard9999":297bwp1x said:
The reason?.......Deliberately to spoil any symmetry
English cottages were never symmetrical. If it had been straight up, then the bridging joist would have been only just off-centre......and the one rule about symmetry is to either be properly symmetrical, or be a long way off. The other reason is that from the kitchen side, it would have felt quite a big, heavy mass of wall. A bit too imposing. Especially as next to it are going to be oak studs floor to ceiling, with brickwork infill panels. This gives me the chance to break up all that brickwork with some plaster.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
After clearing away the scaffold, and having my usual grand Sunday tidy-up, I bolted the beam in place. That sentence covers half a day's work.
Next, it was back to brickwork, to finish off the fireplace. Here is the kitchen side ready for bricking up:
.......and finished:
There are a few cuts on the lounge side:
.......and finished:
The most important bricks in the whole fireplace are those supporting the triple beam: the whole purpose of the fireplace. To make sure that there is a good support here, I flattened off the top of the bricks (most of them are naturally curved), and I forced them hard up under the beam with little wedges, before packing the mortar in tight:
A view of the finished fireplace from the lounge side:
Next job then. This is another piece of the supporting structure of the building. It is an oak screen, consisting of oak studs and plates, with a timber panel below a glazed section. Two of the posts support the entire weight of the flitch beam which has the upper floor and the roof to bear, so the design and construction of this is obviously critical. In fact, as I said many pages back, it is perhaps the detail in the entire construction which has given me the most to worry about. I've been thinking about it for many months. Supporting an entire house on a material that shrinks has its drawbacks......
As with any studwork, after cleaning up the timber line up your head and sole plates, and mark the positions of the studs with a square. Then set out the joints, do some planing, some chiselling, some drilling, some more chiselling, and you end up with this:
I had ordered 150 x 150 timber (6" square) for head and sole plates, but decided that the head would look too chunky, so ripped it down to 150 x 125. Now, the two posts which will support all the load will have through tenons, going all the way through the head and sole plates:
The end grain will undoubtedly split right through as it dries, but that won't matter.
Starting at the other end (ie the non-loadbearing end) so that I had "got my eye in", I started cutting tenons. Don't forget, these lumps of wood aren't square. They're close, but close enough to rely on for marking out, so you have to pick a reference face and work from there, carefully. After cutting the tenons, I always relieve the edges:
Those who know draw-bore pegging can jump ahead a paragraph or two. Those who don't, this is how I do it. After assembling the joint (easily said, but these lumps of timber are almost too heavy to handle, and require bashing into place with a lump hammer even with a perfect fit), I then insert the spade bit, and its point marks the centre of the the hole onto the tenon:
Next, I disassemble the joint (that can take quarter of an hour), and drill the peg-hole through the tenon 3, maybe 4 mm in towards the shoulder of the joint. This is never measured, just done by eye. I would do it less if the tenons were shorter, because a split along the grain of the tenon is the weakness of this joint:
As it says on the back of all the best shampoos........rinse and repeat. Just don't bother with the rinsing. With a fair wind I should get the screen in place tomorrow, and here is what it will look like in a couple of years time once glazed:
Next, it was back to brickwork, to finish off the fireplace. Here is the kitchen side ready for bricking up:
.......and finished:
There are a few cuts on the lounge side:
.......and finished:
The most important bricks in the whole fireplace are those supporting the triple beam: the whole purpose of the fireplace. To make sure that there is a good support here, I flattened off the top of the bricks (most of them are naturally curved), and I forced them hard up under the beam with little wedges, before packing the mortar in tight:
A view of the finished fireplace from the lounge side:
Next job then. This is another piece of the supporting structure of the building. It is an oak screen, consisting of oak studs and plates, with a timber panel below a glazed section. Two of the posts support the entire weight of the flitch beam which has the upper floor and the roof to bear, so the design and construction of this is obviously critical. In fact, as I said many pages back, it is perhaps the detail in the entire construction which has given me the most to worry about. I've been thinking about it for many months. Supporting an entire house on a material that shrinks has its drawbacks......
As with any studwork, after cleaning up the timber line up your head and sole plates, and mark the positions of the studs with a square. Then set out the joints, do some planing, some chiselling, some drilling, some more chiselling, and you end up with this:
I had ordered 150 x 150 timber (6" square) for head and sole plates, but decided that the head would look too chunky, so ripped it down to 150 x 125. Now, the two posts which will support all the load will have through tenons, going all the way through the head and sole plates:
The end grain will undoubtedly split right through as it dries, but that won't matter.
Starting at the other end (ie the non-loadbearing end) so that I had "got my eye in", I started cutting tenons. Don't forget, these lumps of wood aren't square. They're close, but close enough to rely on for marking out, so you have to pick a reference face and work from there, carefully. After cutting the tenons, I always relieve the edges:
Those who know draw-bore pegging can jump ahead a paragraph or two. Those who don't, this is how I do it. After assembling the joint (easily said, but these lumps of timber are almost too heavy to handle, and require bashing into place with a lump hammer even with a perfect fit), I then insert the spade bit, and its point marks the centre of the the hole onto the tenon:
Next, I disassemble the joint (that can take quarter of an hour), and drill the peg-hole through the tenon 3, maybe 4 mm in towards the shoulder of the joint. This is never measured, just done by eye. I would do it less if the tenons were shorter, because a split along the grain of the tenon is the weakness of this joint:
As it says on the back of all the best shampoos........rinse and repeat. Just don't bother with the rinsing. With a fair wind I should get the screen in place tomorrow, and here is what it will look like in a couple of years time once glazed:
This is the bit I've been waiting for
Are you going to be doing the whole thing in one hit then installing it soon? I guess you have to really…
Cheers
Mark
Are you going to be doing the whole thing in one hit then installing it soon? I guess you have to really…
Cheers
Mark
Rod
Old Oak
How long will that be - or is it just a waiting game?
Rod
Rod
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Probably a couple of years, Rod. Certainly at least one........although there is a small part of me that thinks putting the glazing in immediately would be fun, because it would then buckle and twist as the wood moved, giving quite an authentic feel to the feature.
Halo Jones
New Shoots
I may have missed this earlier. What stops the lateral movement of the fitch beam? Is it just tied to the joists above?
Mike G
Petrified Pine
It will eventually be tied with straps to the floor joists of the new floor. However, this is pointless overkill, as there is a floor either side of it, one of which leans up against the old house where 6 inch oak beams prevent any lateral movement.
billybuntus
New Shoots
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 83
- Reaction score
- 5
What's your glazing plans mike? Leaded lights I do hope.
billybuntus
New Shoots
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 83
- Reaction score
- 5
Sounds good. Are you making the leaded lights yourself? I would recommend you have a go.
Rod
Old Oak
It comes preformed - I have a friend who is into that.
Rod
Rod
Wizard9999
Old Oak
Mike
Doesn't seem like you have much on at the moment, so why not do it properly and make your own glass as well?
Terry.
Doesn't seem like you have much on at the moment, so why not do it properly and make your own glass as well?
Terry.
billybuntus
New Shoots
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 83
- Reaction score
- 5
Mike G":1vdjuhec said:
Preformed mike. Depending on the quantity you need you can buy per box or per length.
I get trade pricing which is a fair discount. You'd need to spend a few hundred quid. The soldering iron you'd need for instance is around £90 but you could do future work with it or sell it on ebay afterwards and get your money back. The rest of the tools are minimal. i.e. a lead knife, glass cutter and some grozing pliers.
If your keen I'll give you the low down and where to buy. I take it you'll be able to set up a trade account but it could be tricky with the firm I deal with as they require references.
I'm sure a man with your skills would find it very enjoyable and rewarding.
Have a look on my website for some of the work I've done. http://www.oldhousesalvage.co.uk
More than happy to advise.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
I'm afraid that my camera has not been co-operating, so there are lots of gaps in the photo record of work this week. I have spent the last 4 days chiselling mortices, sawing tenons, drilling peg holes, shaping chamfers with a draw knife and chisel, chiselling stop chamfers (boy, is that a nerve-wracking process!), and so on.
Remember, this is the oak screen which actually supports the weight of the house, picking up the flitch beam. I thought it would be best to have the steel bear directly onto the end of the posts, so I chiselled away the timber at the two positions:
When I had the flitch plates made, I ordered a couple of spreader plates, and this is where they go:
Here it is on top of one of the posts:
I recessed the top of the top beam to take the plates, but in hindsight, I don't think this is going to help much:
Large numbers of photos missing here, I'm afraid, but here are the two plates and 4 posts dry-fitted to test joints etc. Looks pretty good to me, so the next job was to make the little horizontal pieces, each with a mortice at each end.......and then to do endless amounts of chamfering around the future glazed openings. See how heavy this looks visually? Chamfering will change all that (sorry about the odd angle):
Here are all the bits made and stacked up ready for assembly:
It dawned on me in the middle of one night that one end of the sole plate would be supported on pegs on the through-tenons when it shrank, but the other end would be flopping about in the air. There would be no opportunity to put any packers underneath it by then, as there would be a screed and the floor finish in place, so I came up with this:
A captive nut, with this as my adjustment:
The nature of mortice and tenon joints meant that assembly had to be in a certain order...namely horizontal cills first:
A bit of tapping with a big hammer, and the posts dropped into place:
Getting the top plate on was a bit of a test, but taking it upstairs and sliding it along the landing worked out OK:
So tomorrow it needs moving into place (it weighs well over half a ton, so I doubt that will be easy), then pegging, a final clean-up, and then I can get on with the oak roof. This screen is nice.......but that roof should be spectacular.
Remember, this is the oak screen which actually supports the weight of the house, picking up the flitch beam. I thought it would be best to have the steel bear directly onto the end of the posts, so I chiselled away the timber at the two positions:
When I had the flitch plates made, I ordered a couple of spreader plates, and this is where they go:
Here it is on top of one of the posts:
I recessed the top of the top beam to take the plates, but in hindsight, I don't think this is going to help much:
Large numbers of photos missing here, I'm afraid, but here are the two plates and 4 posts dry-fitted to test joints etc. Looks pretty good to me, so the next job was to make the little horizontal pieces, each with a mortice at each end.......and then to do endless amounts of chamfering around the future glazed openings. See how heavy this looks visually? Chamfering will change all that (sorry about the odd angle):
Here are all the bits made and stacked up ready for assembly:
It dawned on me in the middle of one night that one end of the sole plate would be supported on pegs on the through-tenons when it shrank, but the other end would be flopping about in the air. There would be no opportunity to put any packers underneath it by then, as there would be a screed and the floor finish in place, so I came up with this:
A captive nut, with this as my adjustment:
The nature of mortice and tenon joints meant that assembly had to be in a certain order...namely horizontal cills first:
A bit of tapping with a big hammer, and the posts dropped into place:
Getting the top plate on was a bit of a test, but taking it upstairs and sliding it along the landing worked out OK:
So tomorrow it needs moving into place (it weighs well over half a ton, so I doubt that will be easy), then pegging, a final clean-up, and then I can get on with the oak roof. This screen is nice.......but that roof should be spectacular
.
Rod
Old Oak
That looks very nice - you must be well pleased?
Rod
Rod
Rob":2kqpqvoo said:There is something entirely honest and British about seeing slabs of green oak mortise, tenon'd and pegged. Makes you proud
I agree and I think Mike is proud too and is why he posed in front of the camera.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
It took a bit of fiddling and levering, and the occasional bash with a big hammer, but eventually the screen ended up in place, supporting the flitch beam:
I then did some tidying up:
I hadn't made the pegs, so I headed to the workshop for an hour or so, then came back to knock them in. I always wax them quickly before doing this, as it is just the worst feeling when one gets stuck and won't go in or come out:
The final job on the screen for now was to cut off the pegs . I like to leave them long:
I then spent nearly an hour manouevering this nearly 8m long length of 150 x 150 from the floor up onto saw horses, then 2 hours planing and sanding 3 faces. Finally, I measured 7 times at least, and started chopping out some mortices:
The King post roof is under way!
I then did some tidying up:
I hadn't made the pegs, so I headed to the workshop for an hour or so, then came back to knock them in. I always wax them quickly before doing this, as it is just the worst feeling when one gets stuck and won't go in or come out:
The final job on the screen for now was to cut off the pegs . I like to leave them long:
I then spent nearly an hour manouevering this nearly 8m long length of 150 x 150 from the floor up onto saw horses, then 2 hours planing and sanding 3 faces. Finally, I measured 7 times at least, and started chopping out some mortices:
The King post roof is under way!
Stargazer
New Shoots
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2014
- Messages
- 189
- Reaction score
- 8
- Location
- West Oxfordshire
- Name
- Ian L.
- LOCATION
- West Oxfordshire
Mike,
Really appreciate that you are documenting this in such a detailed manner. I must get over the uploading pictures stage myself!
Love the little vignette of the new workshop through the window of the new build.
Ian L
Really appreciate that you are documenting this in such a detailed manner. I must get over the uploading pictures stage myself!
Love the little vignette of the new workshop through the window of the new build.
Ian L
I think a lot of us have run out of things to say but I know we are all still fascinated watching your build.
We went away last weekend and you had me noticing stopped chamfers on old Oak beams...and shrinkage above fireplace bressumers...
We went away last weekend and you had me noticing stopped chamfers on old Oak beams...and shrinkage above fireplace bressumers...