Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

[Mike G]

I had a few hours in the garage this afternoon, starting on the oak framing for the sunroom. As always, you start with the sole plate. Measure carefully and often!

After selecting a nice straight-grained piece of wood and cutting it to length, I cleaned it up:



A 10 foot long piece of 6x6 isn't going to go through any machines, so this was done in situ using electricity:



The sole plate has a complex profile, with 4 rebates.....two if them big, and overlapping. Thus getting the timber as straight and clean as possible helps a lot. It also influences the design of the corner joint. Ordinarily I would use a bridle joint, or possibly a half-lap, but I didn't fancy stopping then running the profiles across the short grain, so decided on a mitred brile. This will allow me to run all the profile cuts etc to the end of the wood. Here is the first joint, blow by blow. I won't repeat this level of posting detail each time I make a corner joint:







My "rule of halves" exists for a reason. If you start chiseling too close to the line, you are making yourself a hostage to grain running off. Here you can see that the long grain wants to dive down towards the line:



I have to counteract that for each "level" of waste that I remove, but at least I am fore-warned in a harmless manner. It meant I started each new "half" up at the furthest point along the grain, and worked backwards towards the corner of the wood, each time removing half the thickness that was left:







I then worked out my stud (post) locations, and marked them lightly in pencil. Normally, I would mark each mortice out individually with a knife and marking gauge, drill out the waste, and then start chiseling. However, there are 44 big mortices to do here, and they're almost all the same. I decided to make a router template, and unleash the screaming monster:







The router reaches an inch or so deep, but these mortices need to be about 90mm below this current surface (the big rebates will shortly change the surface level here). I'll drill and chisel the rest of the depth.

Having quickly knocked the "islands" out with a chisel, I marked up and drilled the peg holes:



....before finally drilling out the waste with a spade bit.



This seems, on the face of it, oddly out of order. However, if you drill for your pegs after you chop out your mortice, you not only break out as you drill into the side of it, but you also risk having the exit hole out of line with the in-coming hole.

That doesn't look like an awful lot achieved in about 5 hours work, does it. Well, green oak work is never quick, but also, sole plates are particularly slow with all the setting out. Further, it took a while making the router jig, particularly as I had to make it twice.

 

[AndyP]

44 of them! Aren’t you tempted to hire a chain mortiser?

 

[AJB Temple]

Mike. Happy to come over for a couple of days, with a chain mortiser, mallet and chisels. PM me. Can do any days except weekend. As this is at ground level...

A

 

[Mike G]

No, thanks guys. One of my pleasures in life is the process. I'm happiest when I have a sharp chisel in my hands.

 

[Cabinetman]

I know what you mean Mike, the heft, sound and complete lack of bounce when cutting those mortises is quite a pleasure in itself. There is no doubt at all that that is green oak from the way the tools leave black marks all over.

 

[AJB Temple]

Well, you learn something every day. It has never occurred to me to drill the peg holes before taking the mortice down. Usually I use Fisch auger bits in a 110v Makita going quite slowly and don't tend to get much break out in the side walls, but it clearly makes sense to drill them first.

Surprised you prefer spade bits Mike. I am wary of them after my first green oak build when one snatched really badly. Nearly had my wrist.

 

[Mike G]

I've always preferred them, Adrian, but I am wary of their ability to grab, particularly if they break though sideways into an adjacent hole. I particularly like them having an easily visible point, so you can be very sure of placing them correctly. They are also easily sharpened, and easily adjustable if you need a slightly different sized hole. Further, they are readily "stoppable" at the required depth, which isn't the case with augers.

Those peg hole, incidentally, are "blind". They don't go all the way through to the outside. Exposed pegs like that can leave a path for water penetration. You have to be a bit more precise with the dowel ends, which I would otherwise sharpen almost to a point, and you therefore have to be certain of the location of your hole in the tenon. Too much drawing and the peg could break off in the blind hole, which would be just about incurable.

 

[AJB Temple]

I agree about augers tending to pull. The Makita has an extra slow setting (it was owned by a timber framer who sold it to me for next to nothing) and a depth stop, so it is manageable.

In my outdoor oak kitchen I used stopped peg holes as you are doing here, largely to practise. I then used them again on the piano room, but was a bit stupid with one of my corner joints and may well make a capping for that when I get round to it. I use metal peg rods to mark the offsets to pull the joints in. What do you use for that job?

Looks like really nice quality oak you are working with there.

 

[Windows]

Is it the small screw point on the front of self-feeding augers that is the cause of the problems? If so, do the non-self-feeding bits (Star-M F-type) provide any help?

 

[Mike G]

Yes, and don't know. I've never heard of the type of bits you mention. The thing is, having a point is really important, so even if it isn't a screw it still has to be there. There are lots of good reasons why, but these include being able to stop before breaking out and then drilling in from the other side, and accurate initial hole placement.

 

[Windows]

I’m talking about these things: https://www.workshopheaven.com/star-m-j ... t-singles/
They have a point, but it’s unthreaded.

 

[spb]

I used one of those to drill the peg holes on Mum's pergola. Faster and cleaner than a spade bit, and with the plain point it doesn't self-feed so you can drill at whatever pace you want.

I still used a spade bit for drilling out mortices, though, but that was a 38mm one so quite a different kettle of fish.

 

[Mike G]

........or just file off the thread on a regular auger bit.

 

[AJB Temple]

Word of warning on the star M bits. If you plan to use them for hogging out big mortise holes in either green oak or mature oak and you use a high torque drill like the makita or hilti 110v jobs that can do this all day long, then you have a good chance of the drill shank bending, especially on wide bits in the 30mm and upwards area. DAMHIKT.

Yes. This has happened to me. Multiple times (slow learner). The F type do not self feed but nor do they cut anywhere near as well in hard oak that has sat in a barn forever as a good quality standard auger with a good flat plate and cutting spurs. Much more similar to a standard drill for steel etc. What they are brilliant for is enlarging peg holes that have already been drilled, which can only be done with a standard auger if you put a sacrificial peg in.

Disclaimer - I am not a timber framer pro, but I have built six quite big oak timber framed structures and made a lot of mistakes. This includes tools bending and snapping because they are not up to the job. Mike does not make these mistakes because he does much more handwork than me and knows what he is doing, but others who use power tools more have different experiences. Once a shank has bent on a big expensive auger bit, it is toast. Even a tiny bit of run out when you straighten it creates bone shaking vibration. At least snatchy spade bits are cheap!

 

[Mike G]

First job this afternoon was to chop out the mortices:



I made a couple of little jigs for checking that they were square-sided and the right width:





This sole plate is going to have a complicated profile, as I said yesterday. This is the idea:



The problem is that my circular saw has a max depth of cut of only 65mm, so the biggest rebate is beyond the reach of the blade. That just means a longer slower job. I made a series of cuts:





So far, so good:



I then roughly chiseled out the multiple-cut area, where my saw couldn't reach:



Luckily, my electric plane can work hard up against an edge up to a depth of about 25mm, so that lot cleaned up pretty quickly:



It was only then, as I brushed all the sawdust off, that I saw this:



That top upstand should be straight, and should be flush with the back of the mortices. It isn't. It starts off OK-ish:



...but runs out by 10mm in the space of a couple couple of feet:



That's the upstand against which the window frames will sit, and against which the fixed glazing will sit. The top of it will be clearly on view inside the finished room, so it needs to be fixed. I shall have to remove it back to a straight edge and then glue on a strip to bring it back to full width. However, it is extremely difficult to glue anything to wet oak. I have has some success with PU on green oak in the past, so I'll have to nip out and get some, and probably a box of stainless steel screws too. Luckily the vertical face will never be seen, so if I pepper that with fixings it might just help the glue to work.

Damn, damn, damn. I am never going to use that guide again. Cheap crappy flexible bit of junk. I should have known better.

 

[Mike G]

OK, looking at those photos, it clearly wasn't the saw. The cut looks fine here:



So, it was the electric plane. The ends of the little replaceable blades must protrude slightly from the block, and so I was inadvertantly planing away the vertical at the same time as I was focused on planing the horizontal. I shall have to think this through for the next one. I've got miles of these rebates to do.

 

[Cabinetman]

That’s a bummer, is there anything on the side of your hand planer that you could reference from? Then pin a straight piece onto the Oak for it to run against. Good chunky profile do you need a drip groove underneath?

 

[AJB Temple]

For reference Mike, neither the Triton rebate nor Festool rebate planes (dirt cheap used) will do this (cut the sides out).

Is that piece scrap or will you rescue it?

 

[Mike G]

.....Good chunky profile do you need a drip groove underneath?

No. There'll be a groove on the underside for some lead, which will dress down over the face of the brickwork. The outer face of the plate lines up with the outer face of the brick plinth. I have done them overhanging before, but you either need a secondary cill grooved into the face of the plate, or you need to be able to do monster rebates to form a projecting cill from the solid.

 

[Mike G]

For reference Mike, neither the Triton rebate nor Festool rebate planes (dirt cheap used) will do this (cut the sides out).

Is that piece scrap or will you rescue it?

Mine won't be doing this again. I'll simply slide the blades over a little so they don't stick out of the side. And no, it's not scrap. I'll square things up and plant a piece on to take it back to straight and square.

 

[HOJ]

My hand held electric planes have a fence attachment I use when running rebates.

 

[Mike G]

I cleaned up the wobbly ruined face with a router, then planed up a couple of pieces to pack the face back out to where it should be. I didn't have anything big enough to do it in one piece. PU glue is the only thing which stands a chance gouing green oak, in my experience:





No-one will ever know (but I might not sit at that end of the conservatory very often.... ).

I ran a quick groove in the underside of the plate into which lead will go:



Then there was an open mortice to do at the end against the wall:





On to the next piece. This plate joins the previous one at right angles. I cleaned it up in the usual way, chose my faces, then marked and cut a mitre:





To do an accurate mitre of this size, I chose to hack it off roguhly first, and then chisel and plane back to the line. This worked extremely well. Note also the straight-edge clamped to the wood to provide a reference for the adjustable square. This timber can never be dimensioned to perfectly flat and straight on all faces, even if you wanted to, so you have to make allowance for wonkiness when marking out.

I have marking gauges set for these big bridle joints, and they won't change throughout the job. I marked up with them, then formed the open mortice part of the joint:







Make your joints first, then do the profiling. That's the rule. So here is my test fit:





And here's that plate finished. It took all day. Tenons are left overlong, and won't be trimmed flush until the final fitting in situ:

 

[AJB Temple]

Nice neat work. Personally I dislike doing big mitres in green oak as by the time I get round to final assembly something has always moved a bit. Are you blind pegging that as well?

 

[Mike G]

I'm not sure yet Adrian, as I want to see what meat is left in the area after I'd done the mortice for the corner post.

 

[Cabinetman]

Good repair Mike, not much else you could have done in the circumstances. That’s a very good fit on that joint, as you know with heavy timbers there’s no squeezing them together, they either fit or there’s a gap!

 

[AndyP]

Just looking at all those shavings on the floor. I can smell it from here. Shame we cant bottle up a fragrance.

 

[Mike G]

I'm glad you can Andy. I can't even when I'm standing in amongst it and covered by the dust.

 

[Mike G]

Right fellas, I want you to design a joint. Imagine you have to cut a suitable shape into the end of a 6x6 oak post, to fit into this:



That's going to be a really properly difficult shape to cut into the end grain. The outer face of the post aligns with the top edge of the chamfer on the end, and the other edge is 15mm past the left hand edge of the mortice.

 

[AJB Temple]

Why didn't you extend the joint chamfer around the front too if that is intended to throw water out of the joint?

I'm a bit puzzled as to what is going on a the back of that short section and the short bit behind where the front post will sit.

 

[Mike G]

Yep, I could have done. Maybe should have done. That chamfer, though, for most of the length of the sole plates, is exposed. It's below the glazing or windows, which obviously sit back against the big rebate at the back. It's purpose isn't throwing water out of joints, but to provide an upstand below the level of the bottom of the glazing so that water can't pool and then be driven under the glazing by a wind.

This piece is a part of a stickie-out section around the door, on which a secondary roof will sit. The projection allows the wall plate to be raised locally over the door, because the level of the plate around the rest of the building is too low to get a door underneath. There's going to be a whole lot of complication at the junctions of the wall plates, 5 feet up from this piece. Here's the overview again:





I've reduced the amount it projects since drawing that second drawing.

 

[spb]

I take it that means the chamfered end of that plate in the photo, and the part of the post that meets it, will be exposed to the elements, ruling out any attempt to make the shoulder area flatter?

 

[Mike G]

Yes, it will Stephen. The chamfered projection is mainly decorative, but serves to add a little meat to the endgrain adjacent to the mortice.

 

[AJB Temple]

Is the roof projection with no tiles etc drawn in, adjacent to the side gate, an as yet unbuilt extension?

 

[Mike G]

No, that's the front "pile" of the house. I leave the detail out of further-back parts of the building so as to avoid confusion. The side wall and gate is not yet built.

 

[Mike G]

There's a lot of work in sole plates. A lot. I have 6 of them in this little extension, and I've all-but finished them:



So, on to the studs.

Firstly, a lot of selecting, cutting to length, and planing:



Then, time for some tenons. I made a template:





Each joint is made for a specific location, and the differences from the template are noted. Then, it's just a question of doing some marking out and cutting away:









Tenons are always chiseled:











This cut was laborious, in that the saw could only go back and forward an inch or two at a time:



More chiseling:



Then a trial fit:



This is what a full day's work looks like:



Here's a couple standing in their sole plate:



They look really heavy at the moment, but after the top tenons are done there will be big rebates cut out of each side, reducing the the width of the posts from 150mm to 110.

Four half-done........18 to go. The tenons on the top are simpler, so the studs should probably only take a couple of weeks. The wall plates are also simpler, so should be much quicker than the sole plates.

 

[StevieB]

Superb Mike - and to think I ache after putting up a summer house for a friend of SWMBO's - I am not in your league by quite some margin!

 

[AJB Temple]

First class work Mike. I know exactly how much work and toil this is. Top class skills and attention to detail.

 

[AndyT]

Mike, have you thought about making a tiny tea table at all? I worry about you with all those big heavy lumps!
Impressive work as ever.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Looks great Mike - I bet you will sleep well tonight.

Presumably the wedges are just to assist when taking the joint apart?

 

[Cabinetman]

Lovely fit! I always think it’s very satisfying working on big heavy pieces of hardwood, there’s no bounce and it sounds right when hit, difficult to describe really. Ian