So what exactly was the problem with it, just that you wanted a stop chamfer as per the rest of the timbers in the house?
-
Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!
Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)
- Thread starter Mike G
- Start date
Mike G
Petrified Pine
TrimTheKing":2vjqd30z said:
No, I ran the chamfer into the joint. Imagine a stile and rail panel construction, and you took a chamfer off the inside edge of the stile, to the ends of the timber. You then either have to scribe around it with the end of the rail, or you have to do some sort of mitre joint. Otherwise you've got a silly groove where there shouldn't be one at the junction between two timbers, staring at you every time you went in that room for the rest of your life.
Ah yes,makes sense.
Cheers
Mark
Cheers
Mark
Can we look forward to two oak doors being made? One for the house, the other the porch?
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Yes, Andy. At least one of them will have to be fairly soon, too. The porch one is a simple ledged and boarded door, albeit with the arched head, but the inner door is a whole lot more fun, with insulation, and therefore an inner face required as well. I've got a drawing somewhere, which I'll dig out later. It's quite fancy.
chataigner
Old Oak
- Joined
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Mike G":91r84sfb said:
Well recovered !
(been there, done that !)
Really impressed Mike, when lifting or moving heavy stuff I sometimes prefer to do it by myself. Then I can plan and take my time, the last time I had help moving a lump of wadkin it ended up getting damaged.
Love the Vitruvian man picture, I'm sure Devinci would be impressed by your oak work. Have you ever seen that program where they recreate De vinci's machines?
Love the Vitruvian man picture, I'm sure Devinci would be impressed by your oak work. Have you ever seen that program where they recreate De vinci's machines?
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Yeah, I do lifts by myself if I can, otherwise I have a friend who has done lots with me over the years, and we're both pretty cautious and thoughtful with a lift. It's often just a question of basics, and asking yourself what will happen if anything goes wrong.
Vitruvian Man lives on my study/ office wall ordinarily, just to remind me about symmetry and proportion, and that other people really can draw pretty well.
Vitruvian Man lives on my study/ office wall ordinarily, just to remind me about symmetry and proportion, and that other people really can draw pretty well.
I'm sure your electrician had good reasons for wiring that switch the way he did but I thought best practice was to only run a switch wire down to the switch. Which would have meant just two wires to run down for you and simpler connections at the switch.
Pinch
Old Oak
Just checked in again.... Fabulous work Mike! 
I love the style of the porch - great drawing too.
With all of this heavy oak work, your hands must be like frying pans with sausage fingers.
Looking forward to seeing this part of the build progress. Loving all the oak work.
Do you have any featured carving detail going in to the oak porch?
:text-bravo:
I love the style of the porch - great drawing too.
With all of this heavy oak work, your hands must be like frying pans with sausage fingers.
Looking forward to seeing this part of the build progress. Loving all the oak work.
Do you have any featured carving detail going in to the oak porch?
:text-bravo:
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Pinch":1jvy5hfj said:Just checked in again.... Fabulous work Mike!
I love the style of the porch - great drawing too.
With all of this heavy oak work, your hands must be like frying pans with sausage fingers.
Looking forward to seeing this part of the build progress. Loving all the oak work.
Do you have any featured carving detail going in to the oak porch?
:text-bravo:
Thanks Paul.
You've described my hands perfectly: big and ugly. I will be carving something into the spandrels above the 4 centred-arch doors, both inside and out.
Perhaps the original date of the house and date of your rebuild.
RogerS":2f2juuo7 said:
I much prefer running the circuit cable (loop-in loop-out) thro the switch than the old traditional way at a ceiling rose or junction box. Makes it much easier to terminate the cables at switch height and test - tho to fair I don't think ive ever had to chase out down the back of a piece of oak ! and I agree on this occasion it probably would have been a lot better/easier to just drop down the switch cables for this particular light.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and im sure I would have run cables differently before if I thought hard enough about the end game ! so please don't let it be said im questioning it too !!!!
Mike G
Petrified Pine
A lot has happened since I last posted, including lots of family stuff, and another small back operation. So, it's been nearly a fortnight. There's plenty to get through, so let's recap. I'm making the porch frame in oak, and I had already made the sole plates:
...and done the foot of one of the posts:
There are 8 posts bearing on these pair of sole plates, so it was worthwhile making some templates. Plural, because the timber isn't straight or square, so each foot is slightly different. I made 3 generic templates, and adjusted one of them for each post foot:
Note the major rebate in the post. This is towards the outer face, and is an essential part of the design, although it will never be seen again:
All the posts had just the foot joint made, and were left over-length. There were rebates, and mortises for the window cill too, and with each rebate taking the best part of quarter of an hour, and of course the mortises taking a while, it took at least a couple of days to get the basics of all the studs done. I couldn't do the westernmost corner posts until I had completed the mitred bridle joint in the sole plate, so here is the process:
Fine tuning the joint:
Then completing the mortise, and having done all the rebating and shaping of the plate:
Obviously, there are two of these.
The eagle eyed will have seen that the mitre doesn't go neatly to the corner. This is an annoyance, and is due to being unhappy with the piece of timber supplied for the short sole plates, and buying some new stuff in its place.........but the new stuff coming up undersized. I decided to take the pain on the outside, and keep the inside neat.
The foot of the corner posts was a bit of a challenge. There wasn't any single cut I could make complete to full depth, so there was lots of careful chisel work:
Frankly, I was pretty proud of those two, although they'll never be seen again.
Next job was the eaves beam/ wall plate. Again, I had had to go off and buy a couple of new bits of timber as the crap I'd had delivered just wasn't good enough. Unfortunately, this meant ripping a 6"x 6" down into a 5" x 5-14", and the depth of cut of my saw is on 2-1/2". Lots of work followed. Anyhow, eventually I got to set out the plate by setting it alongside the sole plate:
Then I chopped out 4 of these:
Note my technique of trying to get the corners cut before doing the final 1 to 1.5mm slice down each face of the mortise. I have no idea if it's the recommended way, but it works for me.
In a bit of excitement to see what the porch was going to look like, I decided to build this wall vertically. It wasn't a great idea. You start by doing the outer two posts, and sitting the plate on the top, then offering up the inner posts and marking them to length before taking the plate off again, fitting the intermediate posts, and then putting the plate back in. Gravity isn't your friend with this stuff:
Finally, for today, the wall in place, but without any window cills:
With rain forecast, all that was then dismantled and taken inside, because rain stains green oak horribly.
...and done the foot of one of the posts:
There are 8 posts bearing on these pair of sole plates, so it was worthwhile making some templates. Plural, because the timber isn't straight or square, so each foot is slightly different. I made 3 generic templates, and adjusted one of them for each post foot:
Note the major rebate in the post. This is towards the outer face, and is an essential part of the design, although it will never be seen again:
All the posts had just the foot joint made, and were left over-length. There were rebates, and mortises for the window cill too, and with each rebate taking the best part of quarter of an hour, and of course the mortises taking a while, it took at least a couple of days to get the basics of all the studs done. I couldn't do the westernmost corner posts until I had completed the mitred bridle joint in the sole plate, so here is the process:
Fine tuning the joint:
Then completing the mortise, and having done all the rebating and shaping of the plate:
Obviously, there are two of these.
The eagle eyed will have seen that the mitre doesn't go neatly to the corner. This is an annoyance, and is due to being unhappy with the piece of timber supplied for the short sole plates, and buying some new stuff in its place.........but the new stuff coming up undersized. I decided to take the pain on the outside, and keep the inside neat.
The foot of the corner posts was a bit of a challenge. There wasn't any single cut I could make complete to full depth, so there was lots of careful chisel work:
Frankly, I was pretty proud of those two, although they'll never be seen again.
Next job was the eaves beam/ wall plate. Again, I had had to go off and buy a couple of new bits of timber as the crap I'd had delivered just wasn't good enough. Unfortunately, this meant ripping a 6"x 6" down into a 5" x 5-14", and the depth of cut of my saw is on 2-1/2". Lots of work followed. Anyhow, eventually I got to set out the plate by setting it alongside the sole plate:
Then I chopped out 4 of these:
Note my technique of trying to get the corners cut before doing the final 1 to 1.5mm slice down each face of the mortise. I have no idea if it's the recommended way, but it works for me.
In a bit of excitement to see what the porch was going to look like, I decided to build this wall vertically. It wasn't a great idea. You start by doing the outer two posts, and sitting the plate on the top, then offering up the inner posts and marking them to length before taking the plate off again, fitting the intermediate posts, and then putting the plate back in. Gravity isn't your friend with this stuff:
Finally, for today, the wall in place, but without any window cills:
With rain forecast, all that was then dismantled and taken inside, because rain stains green oak horribly.
Mmmmmmm lovely.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Mike G
Petrified Pine
I've just noticed this thread is 100 pages long. Who'd've thunk it, eh?
Here's a view through the cill mortises, as a clue to what's next on the agenda:
The cills have 3 rebates, which are a real pain to do on this scale. The top two are to create an upstand to keep water out if anything leaks under the glazing (eventually there will be a leaded light on the outside, and a double glazed unit on the inside, for security), and they're done using the circular saw. The underside is for the render carrier board, and is done with a router:
Then, I found a flat area and set up the frame properly this time: flat. I had to adjust the top of the middle two posts, using a Stanley knife and a chisel to shave the shoulders. Once the frame was set up, I cut the tenon on one end of the appropriate length of cill, then propping it as near horizontal as possible whilst still engaging the shoulder, I marked out for the should at the other end:
Repeat a couple of times, but don't fit them yet:
Whilst the frame is like this it is the ideal opportunity to drill for the pegs. Now, I have decided on a variation on the usual here. I have just seen another job where one of the pegs leaks water through to the inside, so I am going to try something I have never actually seen: blind pegs. In other words, pegs which don't penetrate all the way through the plate to the outside. This means stopping the hole below the surface of the timber. This one-handed photo doesn't help matters, but I set the depth stop so that the point of the spade bit finished 3 or 4mm below the surface:
Then I took the frame apart (using a big rubber hammer, and when that wasn't enough, a sledge hammer and big block of scrap wood), offered the cills in, and put it all back together again. I had to slightly adjust one of the post mortises:
The corner mortise had to allow for the one at right angles:
It all went rather well, so I marked up a couple of faces which needed reducing, then went around marking the pegs locations on the mortises, using the point of the spade bit:
Here is the principle of draw-bore pegging again, for those who haven't seen it before:
The hole is drilled out of line with the marked centre of the hole, so that the peg forces the mortise in hard against its shoulders, locking the joint extremely tightly. I can't overdo that here, with blind pegs, because I don't have enough length to put a serious taper on the end of the oak peg.
Whilst this lot was together I thought of a minor improvement to my original plan. I took the frame apart, and ran a quick rebate around the window openings so that I can use a floating tongue for the planted-on bits which will located the windows. Thus, when the oak shrinks or moves there won't be a direct route through for air and moisture:
Right, that's one side of the porch done for now. I stacked it all inside whilst I tackled the other side wall. The posts had had their bottom tenons done, and the sole plate was finished previously, so next came the head plate (eaves beam/ wall plate............there are lots of names for this part of the wall!). Carefully selecting the location for the cuts to avoid having an exposed knot at the ends, I cut the piece to length, and lined it up with the sole plate (they're different lengths, for a number of reasons). After transferring the mortise locations with a roofing square and carefully noting the orientation of the beam, I marked up with a mortise gauge and Stanley knife, then went into mass production mode:
I cut a tenon on the end two posts, assembled them and the plates to form a picture frame arrangement, then laid the over-long middle posts in place to mark up the shoulders:
Before cutting the final tenons, and checking them for fit. One is a bit tight, so I marked it up, and adjusting that will be my first job today:
Right, we're now up to date. Time for breakfast, then out with the tools!
Here's a view through the cill mortises, as a clue to what's next on the agenda:
The cills have 3 rebates, which are a real pain to do on this scale. The top two are to create an upstand to keep water out if anything leaks under the glazing (eventually there will be a leaded light on the outside, and a double glazed unit on the inside, for security), and they're done using the circular saw. The underside is for the render carrier board, and is done with a router:
Then, I found a flat area and set up the frame properly this time: flat. I had to adjust the top of the middle two posts, using a Stanley knife and a chisel to shave the shoulders. Once the frame was set up, I cut the tenon on one end of the appropriate length of cill, then propping it as near horizontal as possible whilst still engaging the shoulder, I marked out for the should at the other end:
Repeat a couple of times, but don't fit them yet:
Whilst the frame is like this it is the ideal opportunity to drill for the pegs. Now, I have decided on a variation on the usual here. I have just seen another job where one of the pegs leaks water through to the inside, so I am going to try something I have never actually seen: blind pegs. In other words, pegs which don't penetrate all the way through the plate to the outside. This means stopping the hole below the surface of the timber. This one-handed photo doesn't help matters, but I set the depth stop so that the point of the spade bit finished 3 or 4mm below the surface:
Then I took the frame apart (using a big rubber hammer, and when that wasn't enough, a sledge hammer and big block of scrap wood), offered the cills in, and put it all back together again. I had to slightly adjust one of the post mortises:
The corner mortise had to allow for the one at right angles:
It all went rather well, so I marked up a couple of faces which needed reducing, then went around marking the pegs locations on the mortises, using the point of the spade bit:
Here is the principle of draw-bore pegging again, for those who haven't seen it before:
The hole is drilled out of line with the marked centre of the hole, so that the peg forces the mortise in hard against its shoulders, locking the joint extremely tightly. I can't overdo that here, with blind pegs, because I don't have enough length to put a serious taper on the end of the oak peg.
Whilst this lot was together I thought of a minor improvement to my original plan. I took the frame apart, and ran a quick rebate around the window openings so that I can use a floating tongue for the planted-on bits which will located the windows. Thus, when the oak shrinks or moves there won't be a direct route through for air and moisture:
Right, that's one side of the porch done for now. I stacked it all inside whilst I tackled the other side wall. The posts had had their bottom tenons done, and the sole plate was finished previously, so next came the head plate (eaves beam/ wall plate............there are lots of names for this part of the wall!). Carefully selecting the location for the cuts to avoid having an exposed knot at the ends, I cut the piece to length, and lined it up with the sole plate (they're different lengths, for a number of reasons). After transferring the mortise locations with a roofing square and carefully noting the orientation of the beam, I marked up with a mortise gauge and Stanley knife, then went into mass production mode:
I cut a tenon on the end two posts, assembled them and the plates to form a picture frame arrangement, then laid the over-long middle posts in place to mark up the shoulders:
Before cutting the final tenons, and checking them for fit. One is a bit tight, so I marked it up, and adjusting that will be my first job today:
Right, we're now up to date. Time for breakfast, then out with the tools!
Phil
Old Oak
Mike thanks for an excellent post, great work.
(you exhaust me just seeing what you do and the progress!)
:text-goodpost:
(you exhaust me just seeing what you do and the progress!)
:text-goodpost:
StevieB
Nordic Pine
Absolutely beautiful work Mike - that porch is going to look stunning! Bet the side is heavy once together, presume you have help for the lifting ?
Steve
Steve
ScotlandtheDave
New Shoots
Beautifully detailed work Mike, even on this scale. I've been keeping up to date with progress despite lying low for a while, so it's great to see all your elements coming together so well!
Pinch
Old Oak
Lovely lovely work Mike!
It's also good to see you're using a mallet on your chisels and not a claw hammer like some folk do. Some green oak framers use long handled mallets for extra clout - how are you finding the end grain work of the mortices with a wide chisel - 25/32mm?
Beautiful photos too.
Loving the old stools as well - not many of those beauties around these days.
I like the way you formed a small shelf in the mitred mortice to establish a good drilling platform - very nice matey.
:text-bravo:
It's also good to see you're using a mallet on your chisels and not a claw hammer like some folk do. Some green oak framers use long handled mallets for extra clout - how are you finding the end grain work of the mortices with a wide chisel - 25/32mm?
Beautiful photos too.
Loving the old stools as well - not many of those beauties around these days.
I like the way you formed a small shelf in the mitred mortice to establish a good drilling platform - very nice matey.
:text-bravo:
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Pinch":3rilyc32 said:Lovely lovely work Mike!
Thanks Paul. Aside from furniture making, I can't really have more fun than this!!
.....Loving the old stools as well - not many of those beauties around these days.
I've had them over 30 years. I've replaced the top a couple of times (due another change soon), and the legs just the once.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Pinch":2rrn8e1o said:
38mm, and it's a piece of the proverbial. Keeping the chisel sharp helps, but the oak is still relatively green. I can bring off a continuous full width end-grain shaving nearly 3 inches long from inside a mortice. End-grain, mind. That's just not possible in seasoned timber.
ScotlandtheDave
New Shoots
Mike G":8o1iq9yr said:
Yes, sadly those who crafted the Wannacry ransom ware have kept me incredibly busy since the end of May, a pretty intense and frenetic time. Hopefully things will calm down a bit now.
Rod
Old Oak
Impressive stuff again
Rod
Rod
Pinch
Old Oak
Mike G":1bw7asrb said:I've had them over 30 years. I've replaced the top a couple of times (due another change soon), and the legs just the once.
I know what you mean Trig... I know what you mean. :lol:
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Today's task was to make all the remaining window cills. As I said yesterday, the profile is laborious to make, with 4 circular saw cuts, and numerous passes of the router to achieve the desired shape. I won't bore you too many photos of me planing and sanding wood, or pushing a circular saw along against a fence, but I thought you might like to see my solution to handling small lumps of wood:
Yep.........a Black & Decker Workmate! It can sit in my workshop unused for 5 years at a time, but every now and then it is invaluable. It's a little nostalgic for me, because my first ever woodworking was done nearly 40 years ago on this very Workmate (in my spare room in a maisonette).
Anyway, this is the shape I was making:
That's upside down, as I'm sure you realised. This old thing had a lot of work:
As per the other side, I next cut a tenon on the end of each length of cill, before assembling the frame, offering the cilsl up, and marking the un-made shoulders. I then cut the tenons. I may have said previously that I prefer chiselling tenons to sawing them, so long as the timber is suitable. I make a test cut a long way away from the line to find out if it is going to work or not. This one definitely wasn't going to work with a chisel, so I ended up sawing it:
The check for fit:
Put together, square up, and mark up anything that needs altering, plus mark up the peg holes in the tenons:
Finally, pop it all apart again, drill the tenon holes, clean up pencil marks and the occasional footprint, then stack away inside. That. ladies and gentleman, is a full day of work in the world of oak framing.
Tomorrow I start on the front elevation. It won't be straight-forward.
Yep.........a Black & Decker Workmate! It can sit in my workshop unused for 5 years at a time, but every now and then it is invaluable. It's a little nostalgic for me, because my first ever woodworking was done nearly 40 years ago on this very Workmate (in my spare room in a maisonette).
Anyway, this is the shape I was making:
That's upside down, as I'm sure you realised. This old thing had a lot of work:
As per the other side, I next cut a tenon on the end of each length of cill, before assembling the frame, offering the cilsl up, and marking the un-made shoulders. I then cut the tenons. I may have said previously that I prefer chiselling tenons to sawing them, so long as the timber is suitable. I make a test cut a long way away from the line to find out if it is going to work or not. This one definitely wasn't going to work with a chisel, so I ended up sawing it:
The check for fit:
Put together, square up, and mark up anything that needs altering, plus mark up the peg holes in the tenons:
Finally, pop it all apart again, drill the tenon holes, clean up pencil marks and the occasional footprint, then stack away inside. That. ladies and gentleman, is a full day of work in the world of oak framing.
Tomorrow I start on the front elevation. It won't be straight-forward.
Rod
Old Oak
I see from your drawing you've got leaded lights in the top spaces, what's happening to the lower ones?
Rod
Rod
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 10,414
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My mind was in neutral last night and started think about how long green oak can be regarded as green after which it has becoem hard and is just oak?
Also as I believe there are optimum times for felling trees - when the sap is not rising and ideally has fallen, does this lead to a seasonal availability with suppliers for green oak?
Bob
Also as I believe there are optimum times for felling trees - when the sap is not rising and ideally has fallen, does this lead to a seasonal availability with suppliers for green oak?
Bob
Always a pleasure to read these updates. Will be sad when you've finished.
Mike G":1kgz3p84 said:Andyp":1kgz3p84 said:
There'll then be a load of furniture to make.
Oh great so us mere mortals' feelings of inadequacy are sent to continue.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
9fingers":wgam7l3r said:
There is an actual answer to this. I was talking to a partner at Thorogoods Timber last week and he told me that any constructional timber, regardless of its size, is regarded as air dry when it has been stacked for 18 months. However, he also said that responsible mills and suppliers know that is meaningless, and will put timber aside for much longer. Further, lots of green oak is stored in ponds after being felled and prior to being sliced up to prevent the drying process beginning too soon.
Apparently not. They fell whenever they can get into the woods, apparently. Again, this is only green constructional timber we're talking about. It may be completely different for graded and seasoned timber.