Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

[Phil]

The house is really looking great Mike. :eusa-clap:

Not sure why you built such a small shed with all that available open ground.

 

[Mike G]

The house is really looking great Mike. :eusa-clap:

Not sure why you built such a small shed with all that available open ground.

Thanks Phil. Well, it's my second over-spill shed from my workshop, just to take paint, excess building materials, and building-type tools (as opposed to woodworking tools). It is bigger than I need.

 

[Mike G]

Just a quickie. I had an afternoon free, and wanted a small job, so I had a go at my letterbox in the porch. You may remember I had left a slot. You can see it is greying nicely as the weather gets to the oak:





Firstly, I made the small infill piece, fitting it into the rebate I had left for it when I made the porch about a year ago:



There is a rebate at the head of the slot, and I made a profile to fit out of a scrap:



Then from a scrap from my off-cuts store:







Note the line of holes in the first and last photos. I measured these, and then with my nearest bead cutter made the following:





I trimmed this down to near-round, then fitted it in my vertical axis single chuck lathe and shaped it (rasp and sandpaper) down to the size I wanted. After cutting them to length I fitted them in the holes, and after adding a rebate to the letterbox cover it all went together:





It slides beautifully, always sitting on at least 3 dowels.

I should have stopped there. But in the tradition of sharing all my balls-ups with you, I then proceeded to carve the front. I got the spacing wrong, because I measured rather than doing it by eye:







Oh well. It will have to stay like that for a week or so before I plane it off and do it again properly. I have only got the thickness to for one further attempt.......I'll take more care next time!

In the meantime, I have started the inner front door:



Look out for this, as the door is going to be something special.

 

[9fingers]

Are you going to have something like a sash weight to keep the letter box closed off or just relying on Postie doing the decent thing?

Bob

 

[Malc2098]

I'm still waiting for the spandrels carving!

 

[Rod]

Neat idea except like Bob said, not self closing and I’d be worried that the “dragon’s teeth” might rip the mail with a clumsy postie.
Solid slider with drain holes??

Rod

 

[Mike G]

Are you going to have something like a sash weight to keep the letter box closed off or just relying on Postie doing the decent thing?

Bob

Terry is terribly well trained. He says it is the best letterbox on his round. Anything is a bonus after 4 years without a letterbox, such that he had to hand the mail to me personally every day, or hang on to it until the following day. He'll keep it closed.

 

[Mike G]

I'm still waiting for the spandrels carving!

Patience, grasshopper!

I might even be doing the inner ones today..............or it might wait until I've made the door.

 

[Mike G]

Neat idea except like Bob said, not self closing and I’d be worried that the “dragon’s teeth” might rip the mail with a clumsy postie.
Solid slider with drain holes??

Rod

They're all rounded over now, and they're well below the top of the upstand anyway.

 

[Malc2098]

Surely, it's 'Glasshopper'!

 

[Jimmy Mack]

I like it. The kerning Mr G! - eek! You did fess up tho

Is it obvious it slides, as opposed to pulls? Might confuse the junk mail guys [emoji39]

The porch looks fantastic, though I'm not too keen on the door, I know some have mentioned movement. For me it's also the proportions, the panels are visually a little large for my eye, just a personal thing... tho perhaps a period style?

As I say, the rest looks great [emoji847]

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[StevieB]

< then fitted it in my vertical axis single chuck lathe > :lol:

Like the letter box - is this a traditional design or one of your own? Not sure I have seen one like that before?

 

[Mike G]

......Like the letter box - is this a traditional design or one of your own? Not sure I have seen one like that before?

Entirely my own. I've never seen anything like it.

 

[Mike G]

I like it. The kerning Mr G! - eek! You did fess up tho

Thanks Jim. Had to duckduckgo "kerning".....and yes, it's exactly the right word. At the moment it reads "MA....IL". I'll fix it. My wife said I should have carved "Letters" instead, without realising that carving is time consuming, and that I don't have any carving chisels, so curved letters are a bit of a pain.

I'm not too keen on the door, I know some have mentioned movement. For me it's also the proportions, the panels are visually a little large for my eye, just a personal thing... tho perhaps a period style?....

The door will look a lot better when it has a knob (ring, actually, I think), and a knocker. Plus a load more nails, but I am waiting to see what I have left after doing the inner door before putting them in. It is a very traditional mediaeval design, but, like them, it needs embellishing.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

Ah I see yes, needs all its furniture.. now that makes a bit more sense.

I like it. The kerning Mr G! - eek! You did fess up tho

Thanks Jim. Had to duckduckgo "kerning".....and yes, it's exactly the right word. At the moment it reads "MA....IL". I'll fix it. My wife said I should have carved "Letters" instead, without realising that carving is time consuming, and that I don't have any carving chisels, so curved letters are a bit of a pain.

I'm not too keen on the door, I know some have mentioned movement. For me it's also the proportions, the panels are visually a little large for my eye, just a personal thing... tho perhaps a period style?....

The door will look a lot better when it has a knob (ring, actually, I think), and a knocker. Plus a load more nails, but I am waiting to see what I have left after doing the inner door before putting them in. It is a very traditional mediaeval design, but, like them, it needs embellishing.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Rod]

It looks like a nice height. I’ve delivered a few village newsletters and the ones on the floor are real back killers and the ones that try to take your fingers off should have a postie health warning.

Rod

 

[AndyP]

Are you going to have something like a sash weight to keep the letter box closed off or just relying on Postie doing the decent thing?

Bob

Terry is terribly well trained. He says it is the best letterbox on his round. Anything is a bonus after 4 years without a letterbox, such that he had to hand the mail to me personally every day, or hang on to it until the following day. He'll keep it closed.

I like that a lot but what happens when Terry is on holiday?

 

[Mike G]

It looks like a nice height. I’ve delivered a few village newsletters and the ones on the floor are real back killers and the ones that try to take your fingers off should have a postie health warning.

Rod

A postman lost his finger to a letterbox in my previous village. Not sure of the details, but I wouldn't want to be A/ that postman or B/ the householder who presumably found an amputated digit and a lot of blood inside their front door.

 

[Mike G]

......I like that a lot but what happens when Terry is on holiday?

I think the replacement's name is John. Anyway, he's training up fairly well. He'll shut the thing, no doubt.

 

[Mike G]

I'll try and post the construction of the inner front door as I go, rather than after the fact. Just a reminder of what I am trying to achieve:



As with the porch door, I had to start with the spandrels forming the four-centred arch at the door head. I used the other half of this piece of wood, from which the others were cut (it's 250 x 100 in section):



I cut out the rough outer shape, cleaned up the top edges, and glued on another piece to make up the corner:



Then the damn great long tenons to the top and outer edges. This took the best part of a day, because I had overlooked pegging the posts and beam that form the door opening, and the posts had twisted. Not only did I have to peg them (a real struggle because of the mis-aligned holes), but the year-old mortises were no longer parallel and square, so lots of offering up and adjusting ensued:





Note the shaped mortise to the one on the floor, allowing the spandrel to rotate into position with the other spandrel already in place (like this, on the outer door):



Now, this door is going to be 71mm thick, which with an allowance for a draft seal means a curved rebate 75 x 25. That is not easy, however well equipped your workshop. Here is how I started:



After chiseling away as much as I could I then screwed on a template, and with a frightening cutter sticking 3 inches up out of the middle of an unguarded router table, I carefully (and extremely slowly) shaped the rebate. Not carefully enough:



That happened both sides. It is a fundamental design flaw with the piece, as the cross-grain (well, 45 degree grain) tapers to near zero. I had no option but cut it away to something solid, and glue in a long-grain patch:





That's another day ticked off.

Today, I cleaned up and shaped the patches, shaped the outer face of the curve (the downstand against which the door shuts), used the scratchstock to scrape a 2mm curved groove for the seal, and trimmed off the bottom ends. Another 5 hours work. The scratching of the grooves took over an hour each. I'm well into 3 days work with just the door heads.........and who here would allow for that in pricing up a job like this?

I drilled out the peg holes in the tenons, but with only 40mm tenons the pegs can't be draw-bored, particularly into 45 degree grain. Then offered up the spandrels and marked up for a final trim and sand tomorrow:





The corner patches came out really rather well, and I have seen similar repairs to spandrels in ancient buildings:



I then headed off to Thorogood Timber to pick up some more oak for the doors, a dresser in the kitchen, and a couple of other bits around the house. Hopefully I'll be able to get some time on this tomorrow.

 

[Malc2098]

Awesome!

 

[Coley]

A 71 x 25mm rebate wouldn't be too much of a problem to be perfectly honest Mike. A rebate block and a ring fence would make light work of it, as would a 50mm flush trim router cutter. As you've discovered already it'd make sense to form your rebates before cutting the tenons on the ends (while there's still plenty of meat) this would hopefully avoid having to patch up the bits that have broken off.

Regarding the 'allowing 3 days'- I think it's a bit different when you're making something for yourself. If you were doing it commercially you'd probably have to rethink your method to speed up the process and to avoid the need of patching up. There aren't many places I've worked that would consider that acceptable - especially if I was billing them for 3 days labour to do it !

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Malcolm.

 

[Jimmy Mack]

That door elevation technical makes for a pleasing design, Mike...I had a feeling a riveted/ trad style was the goal. Nice. :eusa-dance:

 

[Rod]

Strange the use of green oak, if that was seasoned I’d have chucked it away. [emoji3]

Rod

 

[RogerS]

Did you try routing all 3" in one go, Mike? If so, I'd have gone for several smaller cuts TBH.

Re the letterbox...love the idea and see your point re the kerning. But to my eyes that I looks like a bastardised T with those oversized serifs.

 

[Mike G]

Did you try routing all 3" in one go, Mike? If so, I'd have gone for several smaller cuts TBH.

Re the letterbox...love the idea and see your point re the kerning. But to my eyes that I looks like a bastardised T with those oversized serifs.

The guide bush is on the bottom of the cutter, which is the only way it could work with a template. The cutter is about 60mm high, so I did it in 2 passes.

Yeah, please ignore that carving. It soon won't be there........I'll do it again properly.

 

[Mike G]

Strange the use of green oak.......

No, Rod, all timber framing through history has been with green timber. That's why the buildings look as they look.......a bit wonky. Not only is large section seasoned oak extremely difficult and expensive to source, but it is tremendously hard to work with. The only practical way of doing this is with green timber. Saying that, this piece is almost a year old, so it is only partially green.

 

[Mike G]

Documenting a day of underachievement. Well, half a day. I do have to earn a living now and then.

This door incorporates a sheet of 6mm oak faced ply, and when I bought it, it came sandwiched between a sheet of cardboard and a sheet of 3mm MDF. That was a bonus, because I wanted the MDF. This door is nearly 3 inches thick, and will weigh an absolute ton. I don't want to be standing it in place, adjusting, trying again, adjusting, and so on. I want it right first time, so, I made a template. Marking it up:





I thought I should start with the centre of the three layers to this door. This needs to be 31mm thick, to accommodate the insulation (25mm) and the ply (6mm). I had an old plank of oak which was 36mm thick.....perfect!

Let me walk you through preparing the stock. Jump ahead if this is old hat. Here is what I started with:



I used the winding sticks to determine that although there was a good couple of metres of the board which was pretty straight, it was twisted, and twisted enough that I wouldn't be able to plane it up as a whole, but I'd have to do it in individual pieces (I wanted bits approx 70mm wide). So, I sliced it up first:



This gave me three pieces about 2200 long, all with a twist. Out with the plane, and the winding sticks:



This is merely to flatten one face enough to pass the board through the thicknesser part of the P/T. Neither face will be seen in the finished door.......this is a very unusual door, I say again...........so it wasn't imperative to get each face perfect. As it turned out, there was just enough thickness to allow the entirety of both faces to be properly planed. The shorter pieces were cut 3 or 4 inches over-length and planed up as per the longer ones, only it is a much simpler process with short bits of wood. The shorter you can cut the wood, the less planing you have to do to get the twist out. Here are all the bits dropped roughly in place over the template:



As I am sure you know by now, I love proper joints. These are a pair of mortise and tenons (with a small haunch) at the bottom corners of the door. This frame is NOT holding the door square, so there is no need for a through tenon, or wedges:



A 12mm mortise, chopped out with a bevel edge bench chisel (because that's all I have, or need):



With a quick haunch, for resistance to twisting):



Tenon marked out:



Shoulders cut with a knife just to provide a guide for the tenon saw (I didn't need to go to this trouble because, as I said, the faces of this frame will never be seen........but I've looked forward to making this door for a long time, and I was rather savouring it):







You can see I sawed the faces of the tenons, then pared to the line with a 1-1/2" chisel.

It slipped together first time. That's what you get when your stock is properly prepared:



So that's the bottom rail dealt with, dry fitted and offered up to the template to aid marking out the top pieces:



This is the middle joint of the upper two pieces. It will be a long bridle joint, and it needs to be neat because it will be at eye level prominently in the edge of the door. Bridle joints, often taught as one of the first joins you learn, are actually a damned difficult joint to get spot on. Anyway, the shoulders as before, knife then tenon saw:



I roughed off the waste with a handsaw, then cleaned up with the big chisel as always:



Same principle but t'other way around with the female part of the joint. I drilled a hole near the inner shoulder/ face of the joint, sawed down to it, then cleaned up with the chisel (you know how sometimes you get the sharpening absolutely bang-on, and the tool is like a razor......well, that happened, and it makes this job a joy):







I glued it all up, and that's it for the day. Like I said.......something of an underachiement:

 

[Malc2098]

Nice.

 

[RogerS]

Your bridle joint (and especially on such thin stock) is a thing of beauty.

I'd question the need for a haunched joint in your door where it is. But, if it floats your boat...and there's no denying the craftsmanship.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Roger. Obviously I'll be cutting the horns off, so the haunch is really just keeping the joint as a m&t rather than a bridle joint.

 

[mjdewet]

Mike, Greetings from Cape Town!!!

I promise on my heart NOT to show my wife this thread, because that will extend the HDD list exponentially to no measureable scale...

Excellent is just a so-so word compared to your workmanship...

All the scolding of my long dead woodwork teachers from school still sits at the back of my mind when I see your work! Obviously you paid more attention than I did...

About the HDD list: "Hunny, Do Dis" or also "Honey Do This"

So before I'm reminded about "The List", let me get on wi' it then!

 

[Mike G]

Hi Thys.....nice to hear from you, and thanks for the kind words. I hope all is well in Kaapstad, now that you have had a drop of rain.

There was no woodwork teacher involved. I'm self taught. Twenty years of doing it badly, then a few years of doing it OK, and now I'm just beginning to realise that I know what I'm doing.

The antidote to an HDD list is to have your own list. "This is what I'm planning......."

 

[Rod]

With this being an inner door do you really have to make it so thick for insulation reasons or are you expecting ram raiders? [emoji3]

Rod

 

[Mike G]

It's about insulation, Rod. The porch is an unheated external space, and doesn't need to comply with any building regulations if the door is insulated. The insulated envelope of the house is the main house wall, where the door is going, not the porch, so this is where the compliant door must go.

 

[Mike G]

Distractions, distractions. I can't seem get a clear run at this door. Amongst other things, I spent half an hour today trapped on my roof after kicking the ladder away accidentally. Anyway.......

To finish the inner frame I made a couple more bridle joints:



Then whilst the whole thing was together in a dry fit, I ran around the inside of the frame with a bearing guided cutter to create a rebate for some 6mm oak-faced ply, the secret to this door:





I squared up the corners:





The burning is because I was on my knees, and with the polished floor I couldn't get enough of a grip to move fast enough to keep the router moving at sufficient speed.

Having established the thickness, I now wanted to put in a couple of softwood cross members, so I chopped out four mortises (you people with magic joint-making machine just don't know the pleasure and skills you are missing out on):







Time to glue it all up. The only glue I've got at the moment has a 10 minute open time. Apart from that it's great glue, but 10 minutes, even for only 6 joints (I did the top bridle joints in a second phase), means you have to have absolutely everything ready to go:



I then cut out then glued and pinned in place the veneered ply:



I had planned to do a 3 board door, as per the drawings, but unfortunately, my friend with the large planer thicknesser was away, and with a door width of 835 I needed 3 boards of about 275 wide. My thicknesser maximum is 260. So, I had the choice of waiting for my mate to return, or changing the design. I was eager to get on with things, so I decided to do a 4 boarded door instead. This still worked OK with the boards I'd got, so I spent hours and hours ripping the timber to width, flattening a face, then thicknessing:





Whilst making shavings, I planed up 3 cover strips:



I then marked up the frame using the template:



.......and roughed off the waste with a jigsaw. Useless thing sometimes has a use...

Here are the boards cut slightly over-size. Note the 5mm gap between each one:



And finally for today, with the cover mouldings sitting roughly in place:



My original intention had been to do a shaped middle board like the loo door:





That idea had been dismissed even before the change to 4 boards, because it wouldn't have been possible to have a properly fitting draft seal with that shape.

 

[Malc2098]

Mmmm. Can smell that dust from here!

 

[AndyP]

Amongst other things, I spent half an hour today trapped on my roof after kicking the ladder away accidentally. Anyway.......

Really? Where are the photos Could have been scary I guess.

 

[DaveL]

That door is coming along nicely.
When trapped on the roof, a mobile phone is s really handy thing to have clipped to your belt.[emoji336][emoji351]
Oh and if your going to dump the bags of saw dust, I will pop over and take them off your hands.