Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

[Mike G]

I’ve read through all 133 pages of this.......

My goodness, Nico, you're patient. Someone else did that once, I think, and it took them over a week.

 

[fiveeyes]

Mike..I shall take it upon myself to speak for the 'colonies', :text-bravo: bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[billybuntus]

Looking great Mike. I've taken a look through your spice drawer and can see someone may have an interest in curry?

Pick up a book called the curry guy (red cover). I've recently started cooking from it and the results are immense. Oddly it turns out the author lives above 2 miles from me and I'm going to book in with him to cook for half a day. Enjoy.

 

[droogs]

Oh dear one of MikeG's 2 favourite words has reared its head, I await his response with interest :lol:

 

[9fingers]

Oh dear one of MikeG's 2 favourite words has reared its head, I await his response with interest :lol:

I've edited the post Alan to save Mike's wrath :lol:

Bob

 

[Mike G]

Oh dear one of MikeG's 2 favourite words has reared its head.....

I'm not seeing either "fruitcake" or "marzipan". Nor "pamplemousse", surely one of the best words ever.

 

[Mike G]

On we go. Next on the agenda is a rooflight/ roof access hatch. This is the hole in the landing ceiling currently just an OSB board with some insulation stuffed up underneath it:



This is roughly what I am planning on making:



I decided to give Douglas Fir a try for this project. I've never used it before, and I took guidance from the guys at the timberyard. This is "vertical grain old-growth" douglas fir, and is straight as a gun barrel and clear of defects:



Ordinarily, I would have planed the planks up as they were on the planer thicknesser. Unfortunately, that's out of operation whilst I try to find out what's wrong with it:



Instead, I cut the pieces roughly to length , sharpened up some hand planes, and got to work:



Look at the grain on this!!!! It's all like that:



I planed for a few hours. The wood planes beautifully, and I just got into a rhythm and got on with it. Lots and lots of sighting, checking for squareness, and use of winding sticks:





Basic stock preparation took most of the day:



I then got both router tables on the go, and started on the rebates:







I guess most joinery isn't joined with dovetails, but I honestly couldn't see why I shouldn't. The best design of spacing etc took a bit of working out:





It's funny old stuff to chisel, which was a bit weird after the beautiful way it planed. It was crumbly under the blade, but that face of the joint is irrelevant anyway. Laying out for marking the pins was a bit unusual, and I placed a square to sight against to help:



My marking knife (top) wouldn't reach, so I slipped into the kitchen unnoticed and borrowed something more suitable. Don't tell anyone:



Here's a trick that works. Highlight your knife lines by rubbing some chalk over them, then wiping it off again. It leaves chalk in the depression of the line, but nowhere else:





Dry fit:



I left the top and bottom high for planing down to the pitch of the slope:



There's not much margin for error here:



Long story, but I've got a mile of this seal (FOC):



That takes a 2mm slot, which I marked up and cut with a winged cutter on the router table. It wasn't a universal success, as you'll see in a minute:



Obviously this requires a waterproof glue, so I used PU. I'm not a huge fan, but it does the job nicely in these circumstances. I set the timer to check on it every half hour so I could cut off the squeeze out at the right moment:



I'm a blithering idiot sometimes:



But the joints worked out well:



I hand cut some little 45 degree corner slots which hopefully will allow me to run the seal around in one piece:



..........and filler deals with the cock ups:



That's the upstand done for now. The casement comes next, then a secondary internal casement which I haven't quite worked out yet. It will be like secondary glazing, making this rooflight quadruple glazed in the winter. It's highly unlikely I'll get any workshop time until the weekend.

 

[AJB Temple]

I very much like the look of that Douglas fir. I've been wanting to try it for a framing project for some time as I have in my future a large bathroom, dressing room and extra bedroom extension where I would like to use a lot of exposed timber. It includes a wooden bath and hot tub.

Is the plan to paint the roof light. (If so I already know what paint we will be seeing....)

A

 

[Malc2098]

That quarter sawn stock would have done the soundboard fro my ukulele!

Nice.

 

[Mike G]

Yes, it'll be painted (and yes, it'll be Bedec MSP ).

Stunning quality wood, Malc, but it didn't cross my mind to make a ukelele out of it! :lol:

 

[AJB Temple]

It should never cross anyone's mind to make a Ukulele. Plinky plonky things. Sorry Malc.

There is really only one sound a Uke makes, and cats do it better. Possibly the only exception is the Hawaiian guy who was huge (and dead now) singing Over the Rainbow.

 

[Malc2098]

And Joe Brown.

 

[Lons]

Excellent dresser project Mike, I'll be stealing the sawblade posing as a metal stop idea.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Bob and Mike, I think you will find the toothed edge concept originated with Apricotripper 'down under', he called his version of Mike's stop a "fishscaler". He retro-engineered quite a bit of existing toolery, particularly planes. D. Cohen esq had quite a correspondence with him at one point.

Sam

Edit: Jake himself: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php ... sh-scalers

Edit II:
"Hmm. I think you've half re-invented the "sticking board", used for making small moulding in the "old days".
"BugBear"

 

[Mike G]

Yeah, this isn't a new idea. I think it is centuries old. Some ideas get forgotten and re-invented, just because they're good ideas, and then everyone ascribes the idea to the new guy because they don't know that it'd been around forever.

 

[Lons]

Thanks Sam, interesting read.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Bob, have a look at some of Jake Darvall's other stuff. He does not hesitate to adapt (read: hack about) pretty planes to make them do the cut he wants. Very Ozzie, "bush fix" and all that, but his attitude is a sharp contrast to the 'tool cosseters' that we frequently encounter here in UK or Murrica. He generally gets the job done.

Sam

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Some ideas get forgotten and re-invented, just because they're good ideas, and then everyone ascribes the idea to the new guy because they don't know that it'd been around forever.

Absolutely. Wonder who the Mike Garnham or Jake Darvall was in 1920? 1520? I just liked Jake's stuff because he was unconstrained by convention or being too precious about tools. ...Hmmm...not "being too precious about tools"? That rings a bell...somebody on here...

Sam

 

[Mike G]

On I plod. Time to fix the skirt of cill to the outside of the frame. More blessed mitres:





I used the foaming PU glue for all the long grain gluing, but a flexible waterproof construction adhesive (Hippo Pro 3 for those following along at home) for the end grains of the mitres. Horrible stuff to clean up, but I have more faith in that surviving all the movement of that location than any other adhesive I can think of.

Next came the opening casement. Making the profiles of this was the thing I looked forward to least in this job. Here is a reminder of the profile I am after:



That's essentially two big rebates, a cove, and some planing. Without a tablesaw, big rebates are always a struggle in my workshop. Here's how I did them:







With all the depth changes, each piece of wood went through the router table 10 times for each rebate. Counting 2 passes for the cove, and then the slit for the seal, each piece was machined 23 times, meaning a total of 92 passes through the machine for all 4 bits. Clear marking is essential, because it is so easy to make a cut in the wrong place.

The cills cleaned up OK in the end. It took almost as long to clean the stickiness off my tools! It's always worth bearing in mind that I get to choose which view you see . So here is an example of one of the finished mitred corners:



An overview of the completed frame:



Joining together 4 bits of straight wood all of the same shape at right angled corners should be pretty straightforward. We've all done it countless times. Well, try taking those damned mitres into account:





Believe it or not these mitred dovetails were amongst the most complex joints I have ever cut. I made at least one serious marking out error on every single corner. I had to make most of the joint, partially assemble, mark up, disassemble, and cut the final part of the joint. Thankfully, I left the pieces square (well, you know, rectilinear) through the joint-making process, before planing a slope to the top of 3 of the bits:



They all worked out pretty tidily in the end:



There was a little bump in the top corners to sort out:



But those went quite well with a hand plane:





This is the lower (downhill) end of the frame. I have made allowance for the top sheet of the double glazed unit oversailing:





Everything fits, and is nice and square and true. I'm rather pleased, because getting this far has been anything but simple:

 

[AndyP]

Have you already bought the glass and making the frame to fit or vice versa?

 

[Malc2098]

Nice.

 

[Mike G]

No Andy, I've made the woodwork to fit the hole (and upstand), and will buy the glass to fit the woodwork. I won't order it just yet, though, because I am going to do a secondary internal casement to seal things up a bit tighter over winter.

 

[Karookop]

Mike, long time since I posted here. However I read everyday on this blog. My compliments on this frame - specifically how you have put the corners together. Seriously complicated geometry you got right with a flair and craftsmanship rarely seen. I also liked the drains you have designed. Well done and thanks for the pleasure your postings give us. :eusa-clap: :text-bravo:

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Carel. Good to hear from you.......and stay safe, hey. Covid is no fun at all.

 

[the bear]

Hi Mike

I'm the same as Carel, haven't commented for ages but been keeping up to date. All fantastic stuff.

Mark

 

[RogerS]

Totally agree. Fascinating thread and the quality of those joints...superb.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Roger, Mark.

I popped up onto the roof earlier, between downpours, to get some measurements for the next phase. Unfortunately, that's all I did:





The 4 year old temporary cover can be seen in the second photo. Yep, it's not the prettiest thing I've ever made.

 

[Cabinetman]

Very nicely put together Mike – very crisp. It’s just a shame it will never be seen, you’ll have to arrange guided tours onto the roof to let people marvel at your craftsmanship. Ian

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Ian. The motivation to do a half decent job is that I am 60. I don't want to be setting myself up for the horrible job of replacing this thing when I'm in my 70s. So it is entirely self-interest driving me to do the job once, and once only.

 

[Cabinetman]

I understand where you’re coming from perfectly on that, and what’s noticeable is, I’m sorry to say Mike, sometime after you turn 60 the ability to work as hard as you once did sort of slopes off gently, I am now 65 and virtually retired and quite happy to not have to do as many hours as previously.
Also I get to do/make what I want to do hurrah. Ian

 

[AJB Temple]

Very impressive work indeed Mike on those joints. Difficult to mark out and cut. Reminds me of some complex Japanese joint work. Impressive and neat.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Adrian. Yes, it was certainly a head-scratcher. I did think of doing all the joinery before shaping the timber, and that may well have been better in hindsight. But even that would have had its complications.

 

[Mike G]

I've been somewhat distracted by my conversion to grand-father-hood this weekend, so haven't achieved an awful lot. Nonetheless, there is some progress to report. Firstly, the inner shelf:







Half-lapped masons mitres seemed to me to be the only way to make any sort of proper joint between the members, given that they all had to slot into grooves. Obviously full mitres simply couldn't work geometrically. Whilst the glue was drying on that, I drilled drainage/ air-circulation holes which would take any leaks that got in around the glazing back out to the outside:



I then did a beautiful job of chopping in the rather tasty SS cranked 3" ball-bearing hinges I'd bought for the job:









.....only to discover that it is impossible to hinge the casement on the side, as it fouls the projecting cill. Not just slightly, either. I would have needed to cut about an inch of material away to form a clearance. I'm such an idiot sometimes.

The only place such hinges could possible work was on the top end, where the upstand was at its highest:



This left me with some repair work to do:











Next came something of a quirky thing. Under the internal projecting shelf was to be fitted a decorative skirt, to seal off the junction with the plaster. However, I have an additional task in mind for it, which is to hold a secondary glazing panel in winter. Because I wanted to make that secondary panel, I needed to know the size of the opening inside that skirt, so I decided to make it and attach it prior to fitting. Firstly, this was risky, because the fit had to be tight enough not to be horrible decoratively, but loose enough that I could just drop the entire rooflight into place as one complete unit without fouling on the existing plaster.

I took some pinch sticks in and very carefully gathered my measurements. Obviously, this skirt would need to be properly fixed at the corners, so some quick 'n dirty dovetails (they'd never be seen). No real marking out for the tails:









I took the dry-fitted skirt up to the opening and tried it, noting the diagonals so that I could replicate those at glue-up.

Those who think of dovetails as high end stuff should take a look at those photos. Probably quarter of an hour of work and I'd got 4 rock solid corners. Low skill/ high strength and accurate. I think the only competitor would have been some 2" nails, but into 15mm timber that's something of a gamble.

I glued the apron in place:



On to the removable secondary glazing. I ripped and planed some more Douglas Fir. From memory the section was about 45x30mm. After cutting to length and running a big rebate around the pieces, I then cut back the ends in preparation for my corner joinery:







I was pretty pleased with them:



Everything on exposed painted joinery gets rounded over. This is to ensure that the paint remains thick enough at the arris, otherwise this is a weak spot where failure will eventually start:





I'd contemplated many different ways of holding the secondary glazing in place, and in the end settled for making my own mechanism. I started with a scrap of aluminium (I'd guess at about 2mm thick, maybe 2.5):



The nice thing with working aluminium as compared to steel is that ordinary woodworking tools can be used. I swapped to an old blade on the bandsaw, and an old belt on the belt sander, and started work:











Everybody has a spring collection, don't they:



It's hard to find 4 the same in mine, so I was a bit limited. I came up with these:



With a scrap of straightened fencing wire I mocked this up on an off-cut:



Then chopped away the relevant parts of the sides of the frame, before fitting the mechanism:









That's repeated on the other side, and now I'll be able to just push the window up into place and it will click into position over 4 screws. Pushing the lever will release a side at a time when I want to remove it.

All I had time left for was a splash of thinned Bedec MSP as a primer/ undercoat:

 

[Malc2098]

Congratulations. Hope you can get to see your grandchild. I've only been able to see min once since she was born in April.

Nice woodwork.

 

[Lons]

Congratulations on becoming a granddad Mike, that explains the cock ups. :eusa-whistle: You'll definitely need to get a move on as it won't be long before the list of grandchild work starts building up.

BTW my spring collection is bigger than yours. :eusa-dance:

 

[Mike G]

Thanks Bob. And those were only the ones I tipped out. There are a few more where they came from, but mainly big ones.

 

[MJ80]

Looks great Mike and congratulations on the new addition to your family.

 

[Cabinetman]

Lovely work as always Mike, and congratulations, you just beat me to it, my first arrives in two weeks! Ian

 

[Woodbloke]

Nice one on being a granddad; mine have yet to produce but we live in hope :eusa-pray:


Agree about Douglas Fir; it's lovely stuff to plane and is much superior to yer bog standard pine (although that can be good as well if you get hold of decent stuff). I recently finished a large picture frame in DF with Bog Oak splines and finished with a couple of coats of satin Osmo - Rob

 

[RogerS]

Great WIP as ever, Mike. Do you ever make a bad joint ? :mrgreen: