Mike's Workshop Build (Extension & slates)

[Peter Sefton]

Looks good, is the timber CLS? Thats what my workshop timber framing was made from and very clean too.
Cheers Peter

 

[Mike G]

Yes it is, Peter, although I just ordered sawn. CLS in my previous experience has been too dry, and has split readily when nailed or screwed. This stuff isn't like that.

 

[9fingers]

I use "regularised" CLS when I did the cut roof on my workshop and it was nice stuff to use. I ordered it all in one batch so I don't know if there is much sectional variation from one supplier to another.

Bob

 

[Mike G]

Oh, and here's a niggle.........

This batch of OSB is 1220 x 2400. So imperial in one direction, metric in the other. Annoyingly, this means my stud centres are 610, rather than 600, which means stopping and thinking when marking up the plates, especially because of the 45mm stud widths and wanting the edge of the OSB to finish in the middle of a stud. Being as you mark the edge of a stud, not the middle, there is a whole lot of back-of-the-envelope arithmatic to do before you fire in the first nail.

 

[Peter Sefton]

How does that match up to your plaster board or internal finish? It's such a pain when the standards jump all over the place.

 

[9fingers]

Would it be easier to cut a few 1220mm strips off one sheet to use as rods Mike?

Bob

 

[Mike G]

How does that match up to your plaster board or internal finish? It's such a pain when the standards jump all over the place.

The OSB is my internal finish. Externally it is just a breather membrane and boards, so there are no consequences, other than my annoyance.

 

[Mike G]

Would it be easier to cut a few 1220mm strips off one sheet to use as rods Mike?

Bob

Don't be so practical, Bob

I just made a list of the dimensions, knowing they would crop up time and again, and remembering that with a tape measure you want the hooked-on dimension.

 

[the bear]

Mike
If I can ask a question about your slab even though you've moved on from there. Am I right in thinking a couple of inches of it will be visable once the ground around has been landscaped?
Also I didn't see whether you reinforced it with mesh or fibres and you thoughts on these.
Looking good though

Mark

 

[Mike G]

I chucked 4 sheets of A142 mesh into the slab, 50mm up from the bottom of the pour. Not strictly necessary, but with even a little clay in the soil it is best to have peace of mind. I tend to only use fibreglass strands in screed, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't do a good job in concrete: I simply have no experience of the technique.

Most of the slab edge will be hidden behind planting, but yes, you are right, some concrete will be visible. This is the compromise for having a dry workshop without a difficult formed stepped edge to the slab.

 

[Wizard9999]

This is the best framing timber I have ever used. Every single one straight and twist free, with minimal knots or shakes, and all of the same cross-sectional dimensions. I had to return the original delivery as they hadn't supplied treated timber.......yet more delay.

Mike

Where did you get the framing timber, was it a local supplier?

Thanks,
Terry.

 

[Mike G]

Local to me, yes............not Eversley in Hampshire

-

The frames are complete, so there'll be photos tomorrow of them going into place on the plinth. I just need to find one of my buddies..........who all seem to have gone walkabouts now that there is an hour's work in the offing.

 

[chataigner]

How does that match up to your plaster board or internal finish? It's such a pain when the standards jump all over the place.

Oh, yes, how I hate that. The boards I used in my workshop were specified as 600, but didnt line up. On checking, I found they were 600 INCLUDING the tongue, so 590 or so in reality.

Looks good progress Mike, bon courage !

 

[Mike G]

A big day today: all (well almost all) the frames had been made and stacked, and today was the day for erecting them. The mixer was on by 7.30am.

The first job was to check diagonals and brace each frame square. Ordinarily I would fix the sheathing boards to the frame flat on the ground, and use them to square up the frame, but because the straps are under the boards, they have to go into place after the frames are erected, and thus the need for the temporary diagonal bracing.

Next job was to lay out some DPC: 330mm wide (13"), and you'll see why in a later posting. Then, lay out a bed of mortar, with some folding wedges, and lift the first small frame into place:



True it up by adjusting the wedges:



then strap down one end of the plate where the first sheet is going



and fix some OSB (11mm). Note this is to the INSIDE of the frame.



Note the large frames standing up, propped, ready for erection later.

Because I choose not to put an extra stud in each corner, but to have the OSB sheathing fly by the corner to the end of the frame, the frames have to be fitted in a particular order. Here are all 3 of the smaller frames in place:





Help arrived in the shape of Dave L of this parish.



The large frames are too big for one person to put in place, but 2 of us managed them relatively easily. You can see behind Dave that we have the 3 larger frames in place. Note the plate for the nearest long frame is continuous across the door opening. That is only temporary, to help with levels, stability, and keeping everything in line. I then cut it out:



The process is to get one frame up and level, and propped in place. Then after doing the strap and the sheathing in the corner, get the next frame in, and get the corner fixed temporarily, so that nothing can fall over. Using the first frame as a reference, adjust the height of the second frame at that corner by tapping it down into the bed of mortar, and adjusting the folding wedges. The to the next corner, next frame. Once that frame is in, and the corner joined, level off the 2nd frame, then the 3rd. Brace everything, check that all the plates are the right distance apart (fix battens to hold them in the right place), recheck levels, then sort out the pointing.

Another view:



Showing straps, mortar pointed, and temporary battens locating the plates:



A view of the inside, looking toward the smaller end of the workshop. Again, note the temporary battens:



If I don't mention it, do you think anyone will notice that I left those sheathing boards 100mm too long?



Strapping at the door, and the sole plate cut away:



The setting sun picks out the day's work nicely:



A huge thanks to Dave L, who volunteered when all by mates made themselves scarce. He gave up a couple of hours of his weekend to give me a hand, which was very much appreciated. Cheers Dave.

Tomorrow: the roof!!! I love rooves. Did I ever mention that?

 

[the bear]

I was already impressed with the speed of the ground works. Walls framed in a weekend, thats impressive. :eusa-clap:

Mark

 

[9fingers]

Great Progress Mike! Hopefully not too much wind blowing when you had just one frame plus OSB "sail" fitted.

Looking forward to the roof - I like roofing too!

Bob

 

[DaveL]

As Mike said, I turned up and lent a hand to get the bigger frames in place, I took along my toy video camera.
I just set it up on a tripod and let it roll. Here is the first frame we did, straight from the camera.
[youtube]kseRkOzsayg[/youtube]
I have another one that is uploading, its go to take a long time so will post it later.

 

[RogerS]

Oh, and here's a niggle.........

This batch of OSB is 1220 x 2400. So imperial in one direction, metric in the other. Annoyingly, this means my stud centres are 610, rather than 600, which means stopping and thinking when marking up the plates, especially because of the 45mm stud widths and wanting the edge of the OSB to finish in the middle of a stud. Being as you mark the edge of a stud, not the middle, there is a whole lot of back-of-the-envelope arithmatic to do before you fire in the first nail.

Steve Maskery hit the same problems over on his workshop build thread.

 

[Mike G]

It's not really a problem, Roger, just a silly niggle. I set my studs out accordingly, and of course, the same set of numbers applies every time, so I only had to work them out once.

In fact, for those following this build in minute detail, here are the hooked-on dimensions to the RH side of studs starting at the LH end of the plate:
633
1243
1853
2463
3073
3683
4293
4903
5513
These will located the studs such that 1220 sheets work perfectly starting at the LH end of the wall, so long as the studs are 45 wide or thereabouts. Of course, 633, 1243 should actually be 632.5, 1242.5, and so on, but this is framing, not furniture making!

 

[Rod]

I found the video to be quite funny - a lot of running around and searching - a bit like headless chickens?
Good progress though but I'm surprised not to see a spirit level in use?

Rod

 

[Mike G]

The spirit level comes into it later, Rod, once the first corner is secured.

 

[Rod]

Ok but you're sitting the stud wall on wet mortar I would have thought you would have checked for verticality - just the Engineer in me?
Sorry about the comments on the video, I suppose we all work like that?

Rod

 

[Mike G]

Ok but you're sitting the stud wall on wet mortar

Rod

No we're not...........we're sitting it on a series of folding wedges. Oh, and you never have to check verticals: so long as your panels are square you only check horizontals.

 

[AndyP]

Fascinating

Oh, and you never have to check verticals: so long as your panels are square you only check horizontals.

I had to think about that a lot, but I got there in the end.

 

[Wizard9999]

Forgive my stupidity, but what is a folding wedge?

Terry.

 

[9fingers]

Forgive my stupidity, but what is a folding wedge?

Terry.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?tit ... g_wedge.3F

hth

Bob

 

[DaveL]

[youtube]gHNUJ6QjVl0[/youtube]

Here is the last video of the frames going up. I did not get the position of the camera quite right but its still not too bad. I edited this, some parts run at 2.5 times real time, even then it came out at over 16 min, longer than youtube normally takes. Had to jump though yet another hoop to get it live.

 

[the bear]

Mike
I couldn't tell, have you got mesh nailed to the bottom of your wall frames so it sticks, or is the mortar purely a gap filler?
Mark

 

[Mike G]

Mark,

the mortar is merely there to spread the load evenly, and to allow for some adjustment to get the frames horizontal. It also acts as a gap filler/ barrier to rodents & insects, I guess, but that isn't its primary function. If you go back to my drawings on the early pages of this thread, you'll see that the sole plate sits half over blockwork, and half over bricks. With straight blocks and curved bricks, this would have caused problems with getting the plate sitting flat, so a bed of mortar is the best solution.

Mike

 

[Mike G]

I spent rather a lot of time sorting out the 2 little returns, the only bits of the framing not finished. These tie the 2 sections of the building together, square everything up and hold it rigid, but there was lots of messing around, measuring, checking, levelling and so on:



Then, after a tidy up, the roof.

I absolutely insist on level and parallel plates, so here is the batten marked up with the length at one end, then moved to the other end of the roof. Pretty damn close!:



This becomes your new best friend:



Select your straightest bits of 6 x 2, cut the plumb cut on the compound mitre saw, and set everything up on the floor:





Remember, this is before allowing for the ridge beam, just to sort out the birdsmouths etc. I cut the batten that was marked up with the plate-to-plate measurement, and move this carefully around until I have designed the birdsmouth satisfactorily.



I mark up one of the 1st 2 rafters as a template, and mark it "pattern"........except in this instance, there is a different rafter to the rear of the building compared with the front, because of a big roof overhang over a wood store. I then started cutting rafters, having previously cut all the ridge plumb cuts:



Then, this ***** thing died:



A quick phone around some friends, and I nipped off to borrow someone else's saw. Despite the awful blade, I cut 20 rafters to 2 different patterns:



Next, the ridge. Last seen as a tamper for the concrete base, with part of a ready-made but not pretty scarf:



I removed the 4 x 2 which was previously attached here, and cut in a matching lump of ex 200 x 63:



In fetching the tamper out from under a tarp, I found this little furry thing:



I marked up the ridge, with each rafter position being indicated on both sides. The rafters line up with studs (bar one cock-up I'll come to another day). There is a reason for having a really chunky ridge beam in this build, as you'll see over the next few installments.



Look, the next bit isn't orthodox, but it works for me, and I've done a lot of rooves like this, alone, over the years. If you don't like what I am doing, don't copy me.

First, clamp up a temporary vertical post to the outside of the wall-line:



Next, nail on two stoppers at the rafter foot postions:



Lay a big board across the plates, put a couple of rafters carefully into position on the board and the wall plates, and, with an off-cut of the ridge beam to create the right gap, screw on a temporary gusset thingy:



With a bigger roof I would fix a temporary batten further down the truss, but it wasn't necessary here. Next, lift the pair of rafters up and rest them against the stopper post positioned earlier. Get a one-handed clamp on to secure everything:



You'll note the lack of scaffolding. I did this off a ladder. I am 100% happy with that, but realise that this wouldn't be acceptable on a building site. I suggest that rather than copy me, you get yourself some scaffolding.

Finally, before the big end-of-day tidy up, I nailed on a couple of diagonal braces, temporarily, to hold the top in place, and tosh-nailed at the birdsmouth to hold the feet:



I'd hoped to get further, but once the ridge is in place, this roof will fly up.

 

[berncarpenter]

Looking good Mike , i see you managed to get hold of an air nailer hows it performing ?
Like the tip on setting out the rafters your lucky to have enough space to set them out on the floor , i never seem to get jobs where i can do that so use the little blue rafter table book and a frame square .

Cheers Bern

 

[RogerS]

Fascinating

Oh, and you never have to check verticals: so long as your panels are square you only check horizontals.

I had to think about that a lot, but I got there in the end.

I'm still struggling trying to work that out.

 

[9fingers]

Fascinating

Oh, and you never have to check verticals: so long as your panels are square you only check horizontals.

I had to think about that a lot, but I got there in the end.

I'm still struggling trying to work that out.

Really? As soon as two level, square panels are pulled together at any angle (other than 180 degrees) eg a corner, they will pull up plumb.
I think I would still check though!

Bob

 

[Mike G]

Looking good Mike , i see you managed to get hold of an air nailer hows it performing ?
Like the tip on setting out the rafters your lucky to have enough space to set them out on the floor , i never seem to get jobs where i can do that so use the little blue rafter table book and a frame square .

Cheers Bern

The air nailer is fine when the tank at good pressure, but leaves the heads of 90mm nails proud when the tank pressure is down a bit. Having said that, with ring shank nails, it whacked them all in 100% every time, so that's what I'll be buying from now on.

 

[9fingers]

Looking good Mike , i see you managed to get hold of an air nailer hows it performing ?
Like the tip on setting out the rafters your lucky to have enough space to set them out on the floor , i never seem to get jobs where i can do that so use the little blue rafter table book and a frame square .

Cheers Bern

The air nailer is fine when the tank at good pressure, but leaves the heads of 90mm nails proud when the tank pressure is down a bit. Having said that, with ring shank nails, it whacked them all in 100% every time, so that's what I'll be buying from now on.

I've found that even with smaller nailers. The hysteresis on cheapy compressors is too large and with my nailers I need an air supply over 100 psi say 7bar to get nails to drive in all the way.

Bob

 

[Mike G]

I got an early start, knowing that there was some awful weather on the way..........but unfortunately, my camera didn't. I'd left it in my daughter's room, so couldn't get it until she woke up.

The first job today was to get the other gable rafters up. I did this in exactly the same way as yesterday: make up a gussett, lay the rafters out at plate level, screw the gusset on, and then lift the whole thing into place against a vertical stop post. The difference today was that at this end of the roof, there is no wall under the end of the roof, so getting a temporary vertical post up involved some temporary horizontal beams across the building to fasten the vertical to. One of them had to be man enough for me to lean my ladder against, too, so I used a lump of 250 x 38, nailed across the wall plates.

This truss went up easily, and I nailed the feet into place at the plates.

Next job: the biggest piece of timber in the building going to the highest point. The ridge beam, 200 x 63 you'll remember from yesterday, and 5.4m long, weighs quite a lot, and I was by myself. With big lifts, every single step needs careful thinking through first, and every step must have a Plan B if something goes wrong, so this ridge took quite some time.

First, I nailed another 2 beams across the building, one above the other say a metre or so from the end of the roof, with one on the sole plate, and the other across the top of the walls. To these, carefully measured, I nailed two verticals about 80mm apart, extended so that they reached well above the final height of the ridge. These were to allow me to push up one end of the ridge beam without it being able to waggle about sideways.

So, one end of the ridge beam went onto the wall plate at the easy end of the building. At the end with the vertical guides I put the end of the ridge on the floor between the verticals. I nailed a temporary batten to the underside of the far end so that the ridge couldn't slide on the wall plate. I then lifted the end to saw-horse height, then to about 2m to rest on the end of a plank of that length. Finally, after checking everything, and clearing the path, I used a 6 x 2 to push the ridge beam up between the guides to a height of 3.9 metres. Stop. Rest. Think.

I then went up the ladder (tied securely at the base, as all my ladders were every time), and lifted the beam a couple of inches and got a horizontal in under it, and secured to the vertical guide timbers. This meant the ridge beam (which was now sloping downwards steeply to the wall plate at the other end of the workshop) could slide along when necessary. I screwed a small batten across the ridge to prevent it sliding downhill.

Then, to the other end of the ridge, which was easy to lift to the right height, slide 6 inches, and drop onto the gussett between the rafters I placed yesterday. This junction was quickly secured with a couple of nails, and that was that end done and secure.

Back to the free end, sitting on a horizontal between the two vertical guides, above the height of the top of the rafters. I lined everything up, then took the horizontal bearer away, and lowered the ridge. Unfortunately, it wouldn't slide down between the plumb cuts on the end of the rafters onto the gusset plate, because it was twisted. I had to re-fix the horizontal bearer, move the rafters back out of the way a bit, lower the ridge onto the bearer, and then open up the gap between the rafters. Rinse and repeat.........and this time it worked. The ridge beam sat nicely down on the gusset, and was quickly secured with a couple of nails. I pulled the twist out of it with a huge wrecking bar I own, and nailed everything up square and flush.

All that, and this is the result of about 2 hours work:



I then released the diagonal braces to allow me to check the verticals, and renailed them once everything was true and plumb at the gable.

The easy end:



The difficult end:
Note the two vertical guides, and the horizontals to which they were secured.



Next comes the easy stuff. Firstly, clear a space, put a beam across the plates to take a horizontal bearer along the middle of the building at wall plate level. Load a few rafters onto this, in roughly the right place. Prop a ladder against the ridge.





Raise the first 4 rafters into place. Go around their feet locating them accurately and tosh nail them onto the plate. Return to the ridge and nail them. Remember I marked up the ridge yesterday, so there are lines to be nailing against. Note the rope across between the wall plates in the middle of the building, and the batten alongside it. This was to pull the plates back to their correct distance apart, so that they remained straight and parallel, rather than curving outwards.



Having got a few rafters in place, I then diagonally braced them, because the temporary braces I put up yesterday are now in the way of erecting rafters:



It was raining. A lot. But I was having fun, and covered up my tools and carried on.

View along the completed ridge:



View from ground level with all the rafters in place:



View from a distance as I retreated to the house to find a towel, a change of clothes, and a hot cup of tea:



Next will come the raised ties (joists), at which point the reason for the ridgebeam size will become clear, then the small roof.

 

[Mike G]

Looking good Mike , i see you managed to get hold of an air nailer hows it performing ?
Like the tip on setting out the rafters your lucky to have enough space to set them out on the floor , i never seem to get jobs where i can do that so use the little blue rafter table book and a frame square .

Cheers Bern

The air nailer is fine when the tank at good pressure, but leaves the heads of 90mm nails proud when the tank pressure is down a bit. Having said that, with ring shank nails, it whacked them all in 100% every time, so that's what I'll be buying from now on.

I've found that even with smaller nailers. The hysteresis on cheapy compressors is too large and with my nailers I need an air supply over 100 psi say 7bar to get nails to drive in all the way.

Bob

Mine's fine for 90mm nails at 8 bar (its max), and down to about 6.5 bar, but the compressor doesn't kick in again until pressure drops to 5 bar. However, with ring shank nails it knocks them in all the way even at 5 bar. 50mm nails go in 100%.

 

[AndyP]

I think you deserve something a bit stronger than tea after that.

 

[chataigner]

Nice job, and I do agree about having a fall back (unfortunate choice of term ?) position with big lifts. My joists for the workshop mezanine are 220 x 75 x 4.5m long, and I'm also working alone so I know exactly what you mean.

 

[Rod]

Amazing work especially if the weather was as bad as we've had here?

Rod