My first coopering. Finished, with turnings!

[Mike G]

I made a pair of gates for a friend:



.....and it generated a few off cuts of some rather nice pine, 14mm thick. I have had a little coopering project in mind for a while, and with cocking up the timings of gluing and filling, I had a few hours in the workshop to spare. I thought I'd have a go. This is mainly a hand-tool project, plus the bandsaw.

I cut some of the scraps to 300 long:





Then set the bandsaw table to a bit of a slope:



.......and did some ripping:



I planed up one edge on each stave, checking the angle with a mitre gauge:



I then used this lashed-up rig to get them all the same width and parallel, planing down to the edge that the jig created:





Bear in mind I'm making this up as I'm going, with no experience to rely on. I thought it might be sensible to create a lip to fix the bottom to before gluing, so a few minutes with a tenon saw and the bandsaw:





Glue up consisted of stapling some tape sticky-side-up on the bench, then laying the staves in place one by one after gluing:



It actually all went fairly smoothly:



My angles weren't perfect. The lower edges of each half should have sat flat on the bench. Never mind, I own a plane:



Glue up complete:



The following day I realised that removing one of the staves brought all the angles to about perfect, so instead of planing the edges and having an odd egg shap, I ran a knife down a glue joint , cleaned up, and glued the two "halves" together. I forgot to take a photo. I also glued up some off cuts to make the bottom.

The little step thing at the bottom was facetted, and I didn't want to try to make a facetted base......so I got out the appropriate sized gouge and took a scoop out of the end of each stave until I'd got a reasonable circle:



The base went in second time of asking, and pulled everything nice round:



I pondered leaving the outside facetted, but settled for rounding it. I made some sort of an ad hoc rest for it in the vice, with a stop, and started planing:



If I wanted it perfectly round I would have to get some sandpaper out, but I can't be doing with that, so it retains an organic just-about-round feel. I glued the base in and came to post the photos:



I'll have to devise some sort of a lid, and some little handles. That will involve thinking......

 

[Malc2098]

Nice.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I really like that. :text-bravo:

 

[AJB Temple]

Cool indeed.

So this coopering....waste bin? bread bin? sock bin?

 

[Mike G]

The idea was to be a flour bin. I mix flour for bread, and instead of having 3 bags of flour occupying a shelf, I plan to tip it all into a bin-thing and save some space.

 

[Cabinetman]

That’s very nice Mike, a satisfying exercise with a successful conclusion, very sensible not trying to round out the inside shape.
It brought back a lot of memories of me making the 3 oval supports for the mammoth desk I made, very similar holding arrangement in the vice to plane the outside shape, mine had splines in grooves between the staves and I used ratchet straps to tighten it all together though, getting all the angles correct on an oval was a challenge.
I have shown some pics of it before, and can again if anyone shows an interest, or I could start a fresh thread?
Ian

 

[Mike G]

I remember it Ian. It was very impressive.

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes please Ian.

Mike - why three flours? As you know I make sourdough a lot and use rye ferment and strong white for the bread dough based on that (plus seeds added sometimes). Are you using spelt for example?

 

[Mike G]

My usual mix is 150g of wholemeal, 50g of strong white, and 300g of malted seeded flour.

 

[AndyP]

Thanks for that Mike. Interesting and thought provoking. Do you think that would be anywhere close to watertight?

After another visit to the Mary Rose a week or so back my missus demanded I make her coppered jug just like the ones on display.
You’ve just piled on more pressure for me to get it done.

 

[Pete Maddex]

Mike I thought you where making an uplighter...

Mahogany up lighters by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[Cabinetman]

Yes please Ian.

Mike - why three flours? As you know I make sourdough a lot and use rye ferment and strong white for the bread dough based on that (plus seeds added sometimes). Are you using spelt for example?

Due to huge popular demand (one's enough ) I shall start a thread, no please don’t all yawn at once!

 

[9fingers]

Reminds me of the coopered tapered bins I made a while back.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3709&p=55963

Naturally no hand tool were dusted off! :lol:

Bob

 

[AndyT]

Yet again, Mike, you casually demonstrate how something that we think hard can be done quite simply, if you just get on with it. Inspirational!

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Nice job.

I presume you need some sort of bands around it if you need a watertight version. That way the staves swell and tighten any gaps when wet. Without the bands I'd expect the whole thing to expand in circumference by maybe 5% when wet, and the bottom to fall out !

Obviously for flour storage you want everything dry anyway, so not needed.

Getting the angles right must take some practice. I marvel at the barrel makers in old time videos who make staves angled, tapered and with a concave inner surface using a curved draw knife seemingly mostly by eye ? I guess with the steel bands driven into place while the wood is hot, a fair bit of inaccuracy can be absorbed ?

 

[AJB Temple]

Yes. Nice work from Mike as usual, but I agree with Tony that old style barrel making with a draw knife and coopers planes is probably a whole different ball game.

Years ago I did a practical luthiery course (violins) in Cremona and the place is full of little workshops. Next door to the one where I was being taught, a woman was making lutes. These had a sort of shell or gourd shaped back, with a deep bowl and a taper to to the neck (almost like a tapered wine flagon cut in half lengthways). Each strip alternated between dark wood and light wood and they were about an eight of an inch thick. She had a big pile of rough cut (by hand) blank staves and then trimmed these by hand to get the required chamfer. This was done in long strokes end to end on each side. She let me have a go and it was beyond difficult. :shock: Same as a barrel I suppose really.

 

[AJB Temple]

That must make a fairly heavy bread Mike?

I make sourdough four at a time and freeze three. Consumption had to be cut right back as I was making my own barrel.

 

[Mike G]

...I marvel at the barrel makers in old time videos who make staves angled, tapered and with a concave inner surface using a curved draw knife seemingly mostly by eye ? I guess with the steel bands driven into place while the wood is hot, a fair bit of inaccuracy can be absorbed ?

Yep, I'm with you. That was impressive skills with the most basic of tools. I think the steel bands were a hugely important part of the process, and of course, the coopers worked with an "offer-up-and-adjust" approach. They weren't intent on having all the staves identical, just in having a tight barrel.

 

[Mike G]

Mike I thought you where making an uplighter...

I remember those now. You left them facetted, didn't you?

 

[Mike Jordan]

I cheated a little with this iroko tub, the hollows and rounds make the angles flexible. I didn’t use any glue and it’s looking a bit rough after about thirty years holding an ornamental fir tree, but the method is worth a try.

 

[Pete Maddex]

Mike I thought you where making an uplighter...

I remember those now. You left them facetted, didn't you?

Yep

Mahogany up lighters finished by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Coopered uplighter by Pete Maddex, on Flickr


Pete

 

[Mike G]

De-clamped, and a couple of minutes with a block plane on the ends:







Handles and a lid left to do, so I guess I'll have to find a path through to the lathe. I'd also like to use some little hand-made pins into the base, but I don't think I've got any.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Nice work Mike, are you intending to use a plastic bag as a liner or will the flour be in contact with the pine?
I can’t see any health risk but pine might add something to the flavour?

 

[Mike G]

No, the bare wood will be fine.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I think a hint of resiny flavour might work well in bread. But then I like retsina :lol:

 

[Mike G]

It won't pick up anything from the wood, but even if it did, it would have to be better than picking up something from plastic.

 

[Mike G]

I turned up a shape, and cut it up on the bandsaw:





With a bit of refinement on my bench sanding arrangement.....:



They made some acceptable handles:



Just add glue:



...and a bit of clamping pressure in the vice:



and they seemed to work OK:



Time to make a lid. I glued up some bits of wood:



After roughing out a circle on the bandsaw, I turned up a thingy with a sticky-out bit on it which pushed through a hole in the middle of the lid quite tightly. This enabled me to mount it on a lathe chuck and start turning it to round. It decided to de-mount itself.

I cut a slot in the middle of the sticky-out bit, and whacked in a wedge:





I won. It stayed properly mounted. I was able to turn the underside, then pull the wedge out, flip it over, and turn the top:





I don't have any curved-ended lathe tools, so hollowing out was a little difficult. I couldn't risk getting too close to the mounting arrangements, so I ended up taking a gouge to the top and carving off the excess:



Then I cut short the sticky-out thing and hot-melt glued the lid in place to clean up the inside. I used copious amount of sandpaper in the process. One day I'll learn how to do this stuff properly.

I spindle-mounted a scrap and turned up a knob with a tenon:



Unfortunately, everything was now too tall:



So I hacked 15mm off on the bandsaw:





I re-planed the top edge of the barrel, removed the arrises, and took it inside:





It fits!

 

[Cabinetman]

Looks really good Mike, clever get arounds too, the side handles are very smart in both senses of the word.

 

[9fingers]

I wonder if unfinished pine and the cross grain on the handles might cause any issues?

Good looking job

Bob

 

[Mike G]

It's not impossible, Bob, but if it does I can get a small screw through from the inside into the handles. I guess I could also use hot-melt glue, which is quite flexible.

 

[AJB Temple]

Nice work. Creative handles. Good use of wood.

You must buy flour in small quantities I suppose. Mine comes in 25kg and 16kg sacks and I just leave it them in the larder.

 

[Pete Maddex]

Love the handles Mike.

Pete

 

[AndyP]

Some creative thinking going on there, great result.

If you can find the time a day spent on a woodturning course will be time well spent. Once you have the basics, which I think you can learn in a day, the rest is just practice, in my opinion of course.

 

[Mike G]

......If you can find the time a day spent on a woodturning course will be time well spent. Once you have the basics, which I think you can learn in a day, the rest is just practice, in my opinion of course.

I don't know of any such courses locally.....but DaveL of this parish is a keen turner, and lives just a couple of miles away. One day when I've nothing to do I might try persuading him to spend some time next to me at the lathe.

 

[Mike G]

Nice work. Creative handles. Good use of wood.

You must buy flour in small quantities I suppose...

Two loaves a week = 1kg of flour/ week. A 25kg sack would mean I was using 6 month old flour at some point, and I'd rather use fresh. I have thought about doing it, with a visit to Marriages, but as I say, I'd rather use fresh flour.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Brilliant - thanks for sharing.

 

[AJB Temple]

Fair enough on the flour. I bake quite a bit more as I am also providing bread for others. Flour keeps well and the harvest is only annual.

Have you thought about milling grain yourself so that the flour is aways very fresh. I've been tempted to do this as you get super fresh flour, but the expense of the milling machine (at least £300) put me off a bit, plus good grain is harder to source in small quantities where we live.

I agree that a turning course is a good idea. Axminster did some at their place in Kent. Just two days I think and the small group learned a lot very quickly, including some useful short cuts and a lot on safe tool handling.

 

[Mike G]

....... Flour keeps well and the harvest is only annual.....

Fair points. I have no idea whether it makes a difference or not, but farmers around here (the "breadbasket of England") often store grain in their barns/ warehouses for getting on for 12 months, selling it only when they need to clear the space in preparation for the next harvest.Whether it stores better as grain or flour I have no idea, but my instinct (and take that for what it is worth), is that the grain is likely to be longer-lasting than flour.