• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Oak pergola (finished, with a twist)

Not having any workshop time is a real bore. But I managed an hour or so last night, and rather than do anything to the frame I thought I would make some pegs. Steve's (Peri) wonderful dowel plate got another outing. I cut up a whole load of blanks on the (frustrating) bandsaw, grabbed a lump hammer, and bashed away:

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The final dimension will be 16mm for this project, but I finished these at 17mm, and they'll now spend a week or two in the airing cupboard. I usually make them out of seasoned timber, but this time, with a surfeit of suitable bits of green oak offcuts, I thought I would use those, season them quickly, and then bash them through the plate to the finished size just prior to use.
 
Looking good Mike, unless there is a particular reason for having it going together dry permanently, would it not be a good idea to use something like foaming gorilla glue just to stop the water getting in?
 
Nothing, but nothing, will hold wet oak together for any length of time, other than a pegged joint.
 
Great work as always Mike, thanks for the detailed write up.

Regarding foaming glue and pegged oak joints, I have always put a bit in the bottom of each mortise to fill any nooks and crannies and so prevent water accumulating. Since I've always done it that way I have no comparisons with unfilled nooks and crannies, but my first efforts from 1999/2000 (window frames) are still sound.
 
Mike G":k3me7h4b said:
Nothing, but nothing, will hold wet oak together for any length of time, other than a pegged joint.
No, sorry I didn’t mean for glueing it together, I just meant to fill any gaps to stop rainwater getting in. Ian
Ps sorry to suggest that there might be gaps in your joints lol
 
I think the only stuff that would usefully fill up the joints in the way you suggest would be the gunk used by wooden boat-builders, such as Dolphinite Bedding Compound. That's not something you pick up at B&Q! This is a pergola, after all, and I'm 61. It'll see me out.
 
Some people use oakum caulking kits on timber frames. I did use it in a previous house I had, when I needed to stop water getting into to some joints on a reclaimed and re-erected French barn. It's expensive and a right faff to use. I still have the cualking tool, which makes an excellent boot scraper 8-)

Example: https://www.heritage-house.org/stuff-ab ... rames.html

Do you not taper your pegs slightly Mike?
 
I just noticed you mentioned shipwrights Mike. I expect it is very similar stuff.

The other thing that works, and is a lot cheaper, is impregnated vineyard string. This is dark brown and a bit sticky. Won't last as long though. Edit: Also known in these parts as hop twine or hop string.

https://wellsandwinter.co.uk/product.as ... d%20String

I've got a couple of big balls of this in different thicknesses, bought from Great Dixter. It's brilliant stuff. You can tap it in to joints with beeswax or semi set tar. Absolutely excellent as natural garden ties and for stringing up beans and stuff.
 
AJB Temple":32nqwrrk said:
......Do you not taper your pegs slightly Mike?

Yes, but not yet. This is just a roughed out stage for seasoning. Once dry they'll then get taken down to the final diameter, cut to length, and have the final shaping just prior to using them. The theory is that they'll expand as the hole in which they live expands.
 
After a long period where I couldn't get into the workshop at all, I've got my act together properly on this job. I had a few hours on Friday, a long, long day on Saturday, and today, and I've pretty much got it done.

There were a whole lot more mortises to chop out, plus the shapes to cut on the end of the joists, and I then did a dry fit in the workshop. There wasn't a whole lot of spare room:

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Most of it went pretty well, but this bracket took a little adjusting:

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Next job, after taking it all apart again, was to drill the holes for the pegs. I really should have drilled through the mortises before I chopped them out, but there is a little bit of an aesthetic choice to make when laying out pegs, so I wasted a little time. It's all pretty standard stuff, except for this bizarre arrangement on the middle posts, where tenons cross over each other inside the mortise:

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I also did my final clean up and marking, and took all the arises off with a block plane.

That photo is a bit deceptive, as the holes are only 16mm in diameter. I had designed and ordered some post feet from a local fabricator. I collected 12 of these on the way back from doing a survey (6 of them for another project).

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Fifty internet points for anyone who can work out what the 2 small holes are at the top.

I marked up for the slots in the bottom of the posts, and cut them out very carefully and slowly on the bandsaw. However, I left the cuts about 10mm short, and followed up with a handsaw which cleaned up the kerf nicely. Any wobbles disappeared:

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Locating the holes completely accurately was critical, so I used this jig:

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I searched the workshop high and low to find something to aid drilling the pilot holes, and found just what I needed in my box of router bits. This is a sleeve/ spacer for a winged cutter on an arbour, and it jammed into the hole to perfection:

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It was then off to the pillar drill to drill out for the washer and nut, and then to drill the 11mm hole all the way through:

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I'm using carriage bolts, and this is a temporary erection so I took care not to knock them home otherwise taking them out again can leave you with a mangled hole. I'm happy enough with this look:

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That's all the bits made. Time to put it all together:

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This was the hairiest stage. It was quite windy, nothing was pegged, nothing was secure, and I was working alone:

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Once I started adding better props and stuff on the top, it all felt an awful lot safer:

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I have a stash of temporary (undersized) pegs, so I tapped a few of those in, and it all went a whole lot more solid:

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The other half of the design team will see this tomorrow, and once we've agreed on positioning, I'll dismantle it, remove the post feet, and set them in concrete to enable the final permanent erection. But even then, we're not done. There's the infill trellis-work yet to come.....
 
Mike G":xx2d39tm said:
Fifty internet points for anyone who can work out what the 2 small holes are at the top.

Are they for the concreting in place stage, so you can tie strings in between to get the spacing and direction right?

Nice big workshop, garden and pergola btw!
 
AndyT":18op83qa said:
Mike G":18op83qa said:
Fifty internet points for anyone who can work out what the 2 small holes are at the top.

Are they for the concreting in place stage, so you can tie strings in between to get the spacing and direction right?

They are for the concreting stage, yes. But not for strings.

Nice big workshop, garden and pergola btw!

You must have seen my workshop build thread, haven't you Andy?

https://thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=198
 
Ok, if I am allowed a second guess I'll say that the holes are so you can screw all the feet onto a pair of long boards, to get them straight and level.
 
Mike G":175xzm8g said:
They are for the concreting stage, yes. But not for strings.

I'm going to guess they're to screw the feet to a 4x2 to hold them rigidly in place. You'd need the extra ones so it doesn't just rotate about a single fixing point.
 
AndyT":3onapm4q said:
Ok, if I am allowed a second guess I'll say that the holes are so you can screw all the feet onto a pair of long boards, to get them straight and level.

spb":3onapm4q said:
I'm going to guess they're to screw the feet to a 4x2 to hold them rigidly in place. You'd need the extra ones so it doesn't just rotate about a single fixing point.

Yep, that's it. Actually, I should have put more in, because I want to use just screws and not the carriage bolts. I haven't got any straight 4x2s, so I think it might have to be a scaffold board instead.
 
Mike G":2p2xhj96 said:
AndyT":2p2xhj96 said:
Ok, if I am allowed a second guess I'll say that the holes are so you can screw all the feet onto a pair of long boards, to get them straight and level.

spb":2p2xhj96 said:
I'm going to guess they're to screw the feet to a 4x2 to hold them rigidly in place. You'd need the extra ones so it doesn't just rotate about a single fixing point.

Yep, that's it. Actually, I should have put more in, because I want to use just screws and not the carriage bolts. I haven't got any straight 4x2s, so I think it might have to be a scaffold board instead.

Yippee! Now, where can I cash in my shiny new Internet Points? :lol:
 
Very nice indeed. We don't fully agree on post thicknesses, but this looks elegant.

If my design partner were to stick her oar in (I try not to let that happen) she would make me extend it most of the way to the outbuilding (rather like the one at Sissinghurst). So get your excuses ready for when she gets back tonight. Eg: can't get any more wood.

You do get a lot done in a day. Annoys me that I am quite a bit slower. :oops:
 
I designed it with 4" posts, Adrian, but when I got the price I made them 3". I am building another pavilion-thingy later this year alongside the pond, and although very much the same size and design, I've got 4" timber for that. As for pressure to extend it to the workshop..........it's the other way in fact. When she saw the drawing my wife kept asking if I could make it a bit shorter. In the classic way (don't tell her) I said yes and did no :shock: :eusa-whistle: .

AJB Temple":3kiimf9e said:
......You do get a lot done in a day. .....

I did put in a really good long day yesterday. I must have done 12 or 14 hours. And I had a plan, and a deadline to focus the mind.
 
Mike G":c34mfyyi said:
In the classic way (don't tell her) I said yes and did no :shock: :eusa-whistle: .
"I said that I could, not that I would."
 
That looks great (as ever) Mike and it’s a really useful post to learn from. Thanks for sharing.

I made a smaller one couple of years ago for one of my daughters. It looked far less refined than the look you have achieved and took me ages. I’m inspired to have another go!
 
Thanks Robert. I'm not quite done yet....there's a hidden little bit of design yet to be revealed, which should make it look even spiffier.
 
Mike G":wglrabeu said:
Thanks Robert. I'm not quite done yet....there's a hidden little bit of design yet to be revealed, which should make it look even spiffier.

I wonder if it will be some turned twiddly bits. Or maybe carved dragons? One at each end, to keep away evil spirits? 8-) :twisted: :lol:
 
AndyT":2rpe7ddo said:
Mike G":2rpe7ddo said:
Thanks Robert. I'm not quite done yet....there's a hidden little bit of design yet to be revealed, which should make it look even spiffier.

I wonder if it will be some turned twiddly bits. Or maybe carved dragons? One at each end, to keep away evil spirits? 8-) :twisted: :lol:

:) There'll be no carving or turning.
 
Looking really good
P
I have a similar behind the scenes design team….
Wo betide if I get it wrong….hahaha

Didn’t mean it to be this longwinded……but if u want to know what it’s like over the water…

If ur interested that Oak here would be close to£3500…..if not more….that would be the most basic of cleaning up the stock and use as is…..this Oak would be straight off the mill and twisted to hell, (not seasoned at all, it’ll be straight on the truck form a cool forest to at least 20 deg C…spring early summer temps….
Don’t ask about split n the ragged bits…in the UK u would refuse it no matter how cheap..
I tell clients it’s just fancy fire wood…..
I estimate for clients that it’s nec to over buy by around 50% as the wood is so damaged….
This also means extra work glueing and laminating to get straight dimensions u want….it all get quite expensive…
But I don’t work for skin members…
I give them the option of buying there own wood if they want…
Crap pine is about 50%…..but it does not rot, our prob is UV light…..unless it’s proper and reg treated (2 years)
It splits n buckles like crazy…we have a very large terrace….almost as biG as the house and I take great care of it…..every spring it gets treated…..so much cheaper than replacement…
The move now in Crete would be to build that in Steel, between 20-30% of the cost of the wood….
Luckily steel does not rust like the Uk, well as fast…..so either galvanised after fabrication or a dammed good paint job……
there's still excellant spirit paint available….we buy it by the kilo but works out to around £20 per 2,5 ltd….that’s for primer or colour…..
As soon as I get out of icu have 3 steel perg's to build for clients….they even have the arches..

Sorry about the length….

I just love to hear what the rest of the world does….
 
clogs":1bk2xokq said:
.......As soon as I get out of icu.….

Damn, hope you're OK.

Are there no local timbers? I mean, I know fruitwood and olive wood is no good for bigger stuff like this, but the Greeks built with timber before they built with stone, so there must be some trees somewhere around,
 
Mike G":12pvnx8u said:
AndyT":12pvnx8u said:
Mike G":12pvnx8u said:
Thanks Robert. I'm not quite done yet....there's a hidden little bit of design yet to be revealed, which should make it look even spiffier.

I wonder if it will be some turned twiddly bits. Or maybe carved dragons? One at each end, to keep away evil spirits? 8-) :twisted: :lol:

:) There'll be no carving or turning.

Spoil sport :)
I spied a very nice Tudor rose on the workshop windowsill in need of a more suitable resting place.
 
Andyp":25c0zte2 said:
.....I spied a very nice Tudor rose on the workshop windowsill in need of a more suitable resting place.

That was my first go at a Tudor rose, and one of the little points broke off. It was only ever a practise piece, but I kept it to help remember which bits are left up and which bits are taken down.
 
clogs":b0gcwp2u said:
As soon as I get out of icu have 3 steel perg's to build for clients….they even have the arches..

Sorry about the length….

I just love to hear what the rest of the world does….

Get well soon !
As for what the rest of the world does, here in central France we are surrounded by woodland and there are loads of local sawmills selling oak and chestnut mainly. For exterior use I buy rough sawn oak, live edge boards, some kiln dried some air dried, price between 1000-1500€/m3 depending on quality. For indoor, some oak but I also use quite a lot of chestnut, similar rough sawn boards live edge at around 600-800€/m3
 
chataigner":1qonvyv4 said:
Nice work as always Mike.
You were not tempted to curve it to follow the line of the path ?

No, it's difficult enough straight! A long design team discussion on the matter this morning concluded that the mountain will come to Mohammed. The path will be adjusted (ie replaced) with a different curve, entering and leaving the pergola in the middle. There were lots of possible alternatives, but keeping the pergola symmetrical about the steps and hence the centreline of the circular patio emerged as a priority. It's not impossible that I could build an oak structure around the patio with an open "roof" over which a creeper would be trained to provide shade, and it might (or might not) join the pergola. So we want to leave that possibility open by keeping the nearest posts of the pergola close to the wall and in symmetry to the steps.
 
If you are going to all that trouble Mike, I would be very tempted to make a domed roof with cedar shakes or such like. You've seen my oak BBQ building with the only slightly bodged dropped beam decoration. This is my favourite part of the garden as I can sit out there to work or read or cook or just laze about or pretend I can grow Bonsai and do a bit of super skilled snipping and wiring. It keeps the sun off and the rain out and is my toll booth for NGS openings. It is so nice to have external shelter that does not get wet. Water and power supplied.
 
Yours is lovely, Adrian, but that would be a bit big and intrusive in our location, I think. We're a fan of an open roof with a vine or creeper covering it, for dappled shade. We did one in our last house which was very successful.
 
Time to wrap this project up. So, I dismantled it, and dug some holes:

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After some careful setting out I cast one row of the post feet. I reasoned that it would be easier to accurately position the second line of the first one was completely fixed in place:

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The following day I was able to set out very precisely by measuring from the first row. Here I am using some polycarbonate as a square:

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I was then really confident that this second row was then accurately located:

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I then re-erected the pergola (so much easier this time with the feet being fixed). It took a long time to peg all the joints, and I used brass screws to hold the top cross members in place. Then, I wandered off into the woods with some loppers. In my first post I promised a design surprise for the end, and this is it. Instead of orthodox trellis to grow the climbers up, I used some hazel and willow to do something a little different:

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That's that project ticked off. On to the next........
 
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