Raised fielded panels in ???

[RogerS]

Wondering what people's thoughts were about making small fielded panels (with a small quirk) out of MR-MDF. Can one get a reasonable painted finish or does it get all furry ?

If it influences viewpoints, the finished pane size will be 660mm wide x 100mm tall..but those dimensions are not cast in stone.

TIA

 

[MJ80]

Its pretty good for that. Are you using a high build spray primer?

 

[tracerman]

My only thoughts are - make sure the MDF is Medite . If exposing any internal parts of the MDF , coat these exposed parts with PVA and once hardened off sand smooth and use a decent undercoat . Try experimenting on some scraps .
Steve

 

[RogerS]

Its pretty good for that. Are you using a high build spray primer?

LOL...no. Linseed oil paint. It's for the orangerie.

My only thoughts are - make sure the MDF is Medite . If exposing any internal parts of the MDF , coat these exposed parts with PVA and once hardened off sand smooth and use a decent undercoat . Try experimenting on some scraps .
Steve

Good tip re Medite, thanks.

Think I'll experiment with linseed oil. PVA primer and linseed oil will defeat the object of using the linseed oil.

 

[Coley]

I'm guessing this is for the interior Roger ? Exterior mdf is slightly more expensive but is suitable for exterior use.

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[RogerS]

I'm guessing this is for the interior Roger ? Exterior mdf is slightly more expensive but is suitable for exterior use.

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No, it'll be outside. Thanks for the heads up on external MDF

 

[stu]

Solid gives the best finish, and at that size you should be ok with movement. Tricoya is the best product, super stable but would take a bit of prep to get a good finish on the cut faces. Wouldn't use MR MDF, haven't used Exterior.

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[Coley]

I really wouldnt reccomend mr mdf for external joinery. Years ago I made a toy farm and spent hours making the mdf look like a slate roof. I had some spare and thought if I dunked the mdf in wood treatment it would be fine as a painted birdhouse roof. In the end I decided against it.
Not sure if you've seen this picture on ukws but I did a quick test to show the difference between mr mdf and exterior.

Exterior on the left vs moisture resistant on the right. I've got a built in bathroom cupboard to make for myself and thought it worth spending a little more for the exterior. The thought of having to remake it , then repaint it swayed me to spend the extra ££££ now instead of later [emoji6]

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[Coley]

Solid gives the best finish, and at that size you should be ok with movement. Tricoya is the best product, super stable but would take a bit of prep to get a good finish on the cut faces. Wouldn't use MR MDF, haven't used Exterior.

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It's just a shame tricoya is so expensive. Last time I used it,it was around £130 for 18mm ! Incredibly awesome stuff though.

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[stu]

Solid gives the best finish, and at that size you should be ok with movement. Tricoya is the best product, super stable but would take a bit of prep to get a good finish on the cut faces. Wouldn't use MR MDF, haven't used Exterior.

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It's just a shame tricoya is so expensive. Last time I used it,it was around £130 for 18mm ! Incredibly awesome stuff though.

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£130 is nothing compared to doing it twice!


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[Coley]

Solid gives the best finish, and at that size you should be ok with movement. Tricoya is the best product, super stable but would take a bit of prep to get a good finish on the cut faces. Wouldn't use MR MDF, haven't used Exterior.

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It's just a shame tricoya is so expensive. Last time I used it,it was around £130 for 18mm ! Incredibly awesome stuff though.

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£130 is nothing compared to doing it twice!


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That's true [emoji6] I've just made a sapele front door with tricoya panels- its much easier spending other people's money [emoji28]

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[stu]

Tricoya, but not accoya? I always use accoya these days for painted work. It's expensive, but waste is low and you don't get call backs in the winter!

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[RogerS]

Interesting discussion.

Stu's hit the nail on the head, I think, in that the panel size is better done in solid as it's relatively small.

I'm interested in the Tricoya/Accoya argument. Are they not 'equal' as it were ? I've got some external doors to make, one of which faces South (although how much sun it might get in a year is a moot point ) and so making it out of an 'oya is starting to make sense. Do these woods require special cutters ?

 

[Coley]

Tricoya, but not accoya? I always use accoya these days for painted work. It's expensive, but waste is low and you don't get call backs in the winter!

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Tricoya sheet cause it's painted [emoji6] I've heard mixed things about accoya. I bought a piece to put paint and varnish samples on.

Just as well it's only a sample piece. It'd look awful if it was stained - stripey zebra springs to mind [emoji38]

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[Coley]

Never had an issue with sapele or utile for painted joinery so haven't found a reason to switch to accoya just yet [emoji6]

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[Pinch]

Roger, if the panels are only 660x100mm, why not use timber with the grain running the width of the panel? Or have I missed something. :eusa-think:

 

[RogerS]

Roger, if the panels are only 660x100mm, why not use timber with the grain running the width of the panel? Or have I missed something. :eusa-think:

No, not missed anything at all. I'd come to that conclusion after Stu's suggestion. Wealden do a nice router cutter. Only thing is I don't have a router table anymore

 

[stu]

Tricoya, but not accoya? I always use accoya these days for painted work. It's expensive, but waste is low and you don't get call backs in the winter!

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Tricoya sheet cause it's painted [emoji6] I've heard mixed things about accoya. I bought a piece to put paint and varnish samples on.

Just as well it's only a sample piece. It'd look awful if it was stained - stripey zebra springs to mind [emoji38]

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Yeah, you need to buy in larger sections of you are staining it. It does look good though with a clear lacquer, sort of creamy!?!?
For painted work though, you can't beat it.

If you've never had a sapele door swell up and bind a little in the winter your either using larger gaps or a different kind of sapele than I used to use!!

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[Coley]

Must be the larger gaps I reckon Stu [emoji6] Back in the day everything I made had 1.5mm gaps but quickly increased it to 2mm after a a lot of binding issues. The last few door jobs I've increased it even more to 3mm. I've seen it in a few door furniture brochures that that's the recommended gap so hey ho, ok then. By the time they slap on several coats of paint it'll reduce the gap a bit more. For windows I still allow 2mm all around.
What kind of gaps do you allow? 3mm seemed massive when I first started doing it but now I'm getting use to it. Hopefully the drip grooves and draughtstrips should prevent any rain from causing an issue.

Back to the accoya, so if I wanted a 20mm finished thickness, would I need to order it in as 1 &1/4 to be sure the bearer marks planed out ?

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[stu]

3mm gaps for me too, needs to be to allow for the seals.

Yeah, on the accoya, allow 6mm off each side and go from there.

Here's one I made earlier, just got back from site! The panel is solid accoya. First top coat before assembly and the final top coat after. You can just make out the grain coming through the finish which I like.

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[RogerS]

I like that raised panel, Stu. How did you make it ?

 

[stu]

It's called a cricket bat panel, and I did it on my cnc this time as I was in a rush. I've done them by hand in the past, you have to be really careful and watch your lines because it's easy to lose the sharpness of the corners. Very rewarding though when you get it right.


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[Coley]

Phwoar !!!!! That door looks gorgeous Stu [emoji41][emoji6]

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[sammy.se]

Very nice stu!!

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[Rod]

That’s a lovely door

Rod

 

[Woodbloke]

That’s a lovely door

Rod

:text-+1: - Rob

 

[stu]

Thanks guys. I'm back on site tomorrow, ill try and get some picks of it with the sidelights in and hardware fitted.

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[RogerS]

What we want to know is where the WIP photos are :twisted:

 

[9fingers]

Thanks guys. I'm back on site tomorrow, ill try and get some picks of it with the sidelights in and hardware fitted.

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You are getting quite good at this door lark Stu! Maybe you should take it up professionally :lol:

Bob

 

[Coley]

Seeing that stormguard fitted made me seriously rethink how I make inward opening doors today.
I'm making a couple of door frames and it mostly use to be the case that the client didn't want to see a shiny strip along the front edge of the door. I think they've got a lot smaller now and they also do them in black. This was some of today's effort -

So much extra work and to be honest I'm not sure it's worth it. A metal stormguard would have been so much quicker and most likely do a better job ! I think stormguards will now be my default with the option of having a plastic water bar and wooden weather bar if they choose they don't like the metal strip [emoji6]

Out of curiosity Stu, what paint did you use on the door that still allowed the grain to show through ?

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[Coley]

Roger, sorry for the hijack [emoji6]

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[RogerS]

Roger, sorry for the hijack [emoji6]

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No need to apologise at all. Really interesting. Your mortices put me to shame

 

[stu]

Tidy work Coley, good to see.

Stormguards are definitely easier. I find that clients can be particularly compliant when you need them to be. We match the sill colour to the rest of the hardware and it seems to be acceptable as a part of the weather seal 'system'

We spray Teknos paint, great stuff and they work with accoya so it's another tick in the box for longevity. Took a bit of time to get set up for small runs and colour changes but we've got a system that works for us. (Air assisted airless for priming, pressure assist gravity fed gun for top coat). I often wonder whether I'd be better off painting by hand!

Seeing that stormguard fitted made me seriously rethink how I make inward opening doors today.
I'm making a couple of door frames and it mostly use to be the case that the client didn't want to see a shiny strip along the front edge of the door. I think they've got a lot smaller now and they also do them in black. This was some of today's effort -

So much extra work and to be honest I'm not sure it's worth it. A metal stormguard would have been so much quicker and most likely do a better job ! I think stormguards will now be my default with the option of having a plastic water bar and wooden weather bar if they choose they don't like the metal strip [emoji6]

Out of curiosity Stu, what paint did you use on the door that still allowed the grain to show through ?

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[Coley]

The wedges really help expand the tenon in the mortice better Roger [emoji6][emoji38]

Thanks Stu. I guess if the client really disliked the strip they could paint it to match the cill (if it was going to be painted) - It'd be handy to think of a way to disguise it on a varnished cill but I don't think that would be possible unless it trapped water......?[emoji848]
I had an extension put on the workshop maybe 3 years ago with the intention of having a spray booth. It's the thought of spending loads of money, then realising I'm not very good at it that's put me off the next step. Would I be right in thinking approximately £4000 for a biggish new spray booth and maybe £1500-£2000 for spray equipment?

Most jobs are usually 3-8 windows or doors, but occasionally I'll get jobs that require 20-30 pieces. Do you think it would still be worthwhile considering getting setup for those smaller jobs ? I'd kind of convinced myself to keep brushing, but wonder if there are better lasting finishes that require spraying on.
My last ditched attempt at convincing myself I didn't need a spray booth was experimenting with linseed paint- that's really not going very well [emoji38]

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[stu]

Spraying is a bit of a black art. It's very unforgiving and I've spent many a long night respraying doors where I've cocked something up. Ultimately though, it's a system like any other process in the workshop. You work out what's good and what's bad and keep doing the good bits and try to work out why the bad bits didn't work! My setup was about 1k-2k as I've bought bargains that have become available rather than going out and buying it all in one go. It's pretty easy to knock up a booth with some filters and add a fan.

I'm not an expert but if I was to give one piece of advice if you are thinking about giving it a go but weren't fully committed, it would be to try and setup yourself for priming - its more forgiving and you'll get used to using the gun. I used to use an £80ish gun from Morrels and get decent results from that. Get used to being clean and tidy and see how you get on. Once you done a large batch of glazing bars you won't look back!

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[stu]

Thanks guys. I'm back on site tomorrow, ill try and get some picks of it with the sidelights in and hardware fitted.

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You are getting quite good at this door lark Stu! Maybe you should take it up professionally [emoji38]

Bob

You might be onto something there Bob!

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[RogerS]

Isn't spraying wasteful of paint especially on small items ? When I spray painted the bathroom there seemed to be as much paint on the floor as the walls and my impression was that I'd used much more paint than if I'd brushed or rollered.

 

[Coley]

Spraying is a bit of a black art. It's very unforgiving and I've spent many a long night respraying doors where I've cocked something up. Ultimately though, it's a system like any other process in the workshop. You work out what's good and what's bad and keep doing the good bits and try to work out why the bad bits didn't work! My setup was about 1k-2k as I've bought bargains that have become available rather than going out and buying it all in one go. It's pretty easy to knock up a booth with some filters and add a fan.

I'm not an expert but if I was to give one piece of advice if you are thinking about giving it a go but weren't fully committed, it would be to try and setup yourself for priming - its more forgiving and you'll get used to using the gun. I used to use an £80ish gun from Morrels and get decent results from that. Get used to being clean and tidy and see how you get on. Once you done a large batch of glazing bars you won't look back!

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I did buy a spray gun, cleaning equipment, mask and regulator for the gun. Because I was experimenting and trying to learn I had overspray literally everywhere !!! As Roger was saying I found I was using so much paint I was really struggling to justify carrying on. One thing that put me of building my own booth was the thought of having to bodge a hole in the roof and try to get a chimney outside sticking up a metre or so, or whatever the legal requirements are. I guess spraying waterbased would be a little more forgiving- would I even need to hack a hole in the roof until I got a bit more serious ?

I did have some success that just blew my mind how quick it was, oh no.....I feel i need to have another try with waterbased finishes and some sort of booth effort [emoji38] At least with the booth running I should be able to see past the clouds of airborne spray.

Thanks for the insight Stu [emoji6]



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[stu]

Isn't spraying wasteful of paint especially on small items ? When I spray painted the bathroom there seemed to be as much paint on the floor as the walls and my impression was that I'd used much more paint than if I'd brushed or rollered.

You do use a lot more paint then other methods, and some systems are more wasteful than others which is why i have 2 different setups for primer and top coat. Paint is relatively cheap though, and the pay off is in the speed and quality. Being a commercial environment I probably have different considerations to someone doing it at home for themselves.

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[RogerS]

But do you not find that you spend as much time, if not more, in setting up and then cleaning the kit compared to other methods ?